MKX "3-styles" - good or bad?

[Shark Tank]

I mean this guy does have a valid argument I must say but to be real! none of us know how it will turn out. I respect the fact that their adding new things! Then again I'm scared. But I know what I don't want which is Mkx to be mk9 re-skin that would Be fun at first but probably get boring a little fast. But mortal kombat has always been changing and we had a tornado up until mk9 which I can see why everyone is like omg variations ahhhhh! Lets just all be happy we get to see mk continue! And with new elements instead of the same thing as mk9! I'm don't like the variations that much but I'm glad it's not the same game repeated. I'm not saying the guy does not have a good point! I'm saying new ideas can go good or bad but we will see how they adjust if things end up bad!

It is a valid argument and I'm glad people have these discussions because they're interesting and no harm ever comes from talking about legitimate concerns from the game, as opposed to hypothetically, topics created asking what love triangles should be in mkx and discussions about unimaginative fan made characters based on old sci-fi movies . So I hope OP didn't get the wrong impressions from the first page even if he could have worded his OP better mechanical and technical discussions are always welcome. We just have to be honest and say we know some or a lot of what we're talking about is conjecture.

 

[WakeUp DP]

They are not valid concerns or arguments because he is assuming what will happen in a game that isn't even out yet.

We cant say it will create balance issues or not. Also he states his opinions as facts like saying counter picking is bad when in fact counter picking its just part of any balanced fighting game.

 

[Shark Tank]

They are not valid concerns or arguments because he is assuming what will happen in a game that isn't even out yet.

We cant say it will create balance issues or not. Also he states his opinions as facts like saying counter picking is bad when in fact counter picking its just part of any balanced fighting game.

The discussion of whether or not is good or bad is a legitimate topic, because they're are differing opinions on it. Yes, we are discussing theoretical but that's bound to happen and shouldn't close out any discussion until release day.

He could have worded his op better like I added in the last part of my post, but the discussion is very interesting and I'm glad we're getting differing views here.

 

[WakeUp DP]

You guys act as if Nrs isn't capable or hasn't learn anything from previous games.

just look at this and tell me they havent learn anything...

They r already adding unique moves, this one goes over low pokes which is going to be a good tools against low poke mashers.

It seems like it will like Guile kick

and you can combo off of it.

This already tells me that this game is gonna have so much depth.

 

[Shark Tank]

I'll add that I do think they have learned from games, that why I'm interested in the MK games, to see the progression from garbage beer goggle games like Armageddon to a possibly really interesting and nuanced game like MKX. I mean I can already tell the design of the characters have more thought put into them then their past games even if they do end up imbalanced, which at the topic at hand, I don't think variations have a significant effect either way of creating more lopsided/balanced matches because of how I've seen what happened in other games with these types of systems.

EDIT, at least I'll say I'm not convinced that they do, although it may be a possibly that they do. I'm more concerned about how NRS implement it than the concept.

 

[Peckapowa]

3 sty;es is epic and awesome and will be fun to explore and most likely won't be balanced. But atleast characters like mmh or kabal or aquaman won't have too many tools... or maybe some will

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

They are not valid concerns or arguments because he is assuming what will happen in a game that isn't even out yet.

We cant say it will create balance issues or not. Also he states his opinions as facts like saying counter picking is bad when in fact counter picking its just part of any balanced fighting game.

Counter picking is bad ..... the fact of the matter is that for some reason we all just go along with the "winner has to now deal with some type of handicap"
Which is why people gravitate towards the best characters.

If both players are able to hidden select whomever they want at all times..... would you be so willing to counter pick?

 

[Eldriken]

Y'know, like someone mentioned earlier, just make your variation selection based on a specific button press so no one but you knows what you picked until the match starts.

 

[aldazo]

People will counterpick regardless if there is 3-styles or not, the difference is that the 3-styles heavily encourages it.

Yes, but if character lock (instead of variation lock) is choosen as tourney standard then you will see a lot of counterpicks BUT with the same character, so there will be great character diversification instead of dropping a char cause he simply sucks. At least that's a good thing .

 

[WakeUp DP]

In my opinion counter picking is bad .....

Fixed.

 

[trufenix]

Yes, but if character lock (instead of variation lock) is choosen as tourney standard then you will see a lot of counterpicks BUT with the same character, so there will be great character diversification instead of dropping a char cause he simply sucks. At least that's a good thing .

The important thing is to think of the variations themselves as characters, not just the characters. People differenciate Evil Ryu from Ryu because their polygons are different, even though functionally speaking there's only maybe 5 key differences. I would think the difference between Ninjitsu Scorpion and Hellfire Scorpion would be equally diverse (based only on what we've seen so far) yet most people are still thinking an Inferno win is the same as a Ninjitsu win as far as matchups go. This is the fallacy. If one version of Jax is a grappler and one is a zoner it would be stupid to consider them the same character by any measure except Story Mode.

 

[WakeUp DP]

I'll add that I do think they have learned from games, that why I'm interested in the MK games, to see the progression from garbage beer goggle games like Armageddon to a possibly really interesting and nuanced game like MKX. I mean I can already tell the design of the characters have more thought put into them then their past games even if they do end up imbalanced, which at the topic at hand, I don't think variations have a significant effect either way of creating more lopsided/balanced matches because of how I've seen what happened in other games with these types of systems.

EDIT, at least I'll say I'm not convinced that they do, although it may be a possibly that they do. I'm more concerned about how NRS implement it than the concept.

Fighting games can never be 100% balanced bc like people have pointed out to have a perfect balanced game the game is gonna have to be a one char only or a bunch of the same chars with dif costumes.

Look at sf4 how many versions does it have? And still not balanced...

Counter picking isnt good or bad just part of the any fighting game. 6-4 or 7-3 only matters at the highest possible level and very few of players can reach that level.

 

[Shark Tank]

Fighting games can never be 100% balanced bc like people have pointed out to have a perfect balanced game the game is gonna have to be a one char only or a bunch of the same chars with dif costumes.

Look at sf4 how many versions does it have? And still not balanced...

Counter picking isnt good or bad just part of the any fighting game. 6-4 or 7-3 only matters at the highest possible level and very few of players can reach that level.

I'm not the one disagreeing with you that CP is FLAT OUT bad. I think disadvantageous mu's are the cost you pay for diversity. Although they can be mitigated.

 

[WakeUp DP]

I'm not the one disagreeing with you that CP is FLAT OUT bad. I think disadvantageous mu's are the cost you pay for diversity. Although they can be mitigated.

I know, just adding to your post.

 

[aldazo]

...If one version of Jax is a grappler and one is a zoner it would be stupid to consider them the same character by any measure except Story Mode.

No, it would not be "stupid". Both ARE Jax, one has zoning specials and the other grappling ones, but both share the same animations, normals, speed, etc. Different specials doesn't different chars; in that case ryu with ultra I should be considered another char from Ryu with ultra II etc. That's why people think Decapre is Cammy with a mask, you could argue that her special is now back forward instead of hadouken motion, etc so she "plays" different so she is "different" (same with evil ryu, even if he has his own square with his face on it at the select screen). Itdepends how you look at it and as I think people will consider he 3 variations the same char but, obviously, with 3 variations.

 

[cyke_out]

Counter picking is bad ..... the fact of the matter is that for some reason we all just go along with the "winner has to now deal with some type of handicap"
Which is why people gravitate towards the best characters.

If both players are able to hidden select whomever they want at all times..... would you be so willing to counter pick?

Oh yeah and why give the other team the ball back after getting scored on in football? It totally handicaps the winning team. If those loses want the ball, they should take it fair and square.

 

[WakeUp DP]

No, it would not be "stupid". Both ARE Jax, one has zoning specials and the other grappling ones, but both share the same animations, normals, speed, etc. Different specials doesn't different chars; in that case ryu with ultra I should be considered another char from Ryu with ultra II etc. That's why people think Decapre is Cammy with a mask, you could argue that her special is now back forward instead of hadouken motion, etc so she "plays" different so she is "different" (same with evil ryu, even if he has his own square with his face on it at the select screen). Itdepends how you look at it and as I think people will consider he 3 variations the same char but, obviously, with 3 variations.

It would be awesome if every variation had different speeds on walk, dash, run, normals, jumping, jumping attacks etc. I know its a lot of work but that will add an extra layer of depth to the game.

Think about this Grapple Kotal Khan having slow walk/dash/run speed and unblockable throws and stuff.

Rush down Kotal Khan fast forward walk speed and good normals while having a slow backdash/ walk speed.

Zoning Kotal Khan Good fast zoning tools but slow normals etc etc

 

[Swindle]

From what I gather, most of what people fear for is: having a Variation for their character that they will not want to play (the boring variation) but might have to due to necessity or having one variation outclass the rest of the variations (the best).

White People Problems.

 

[trufenix]

No, it would not be "stupid". Both ARE Jax, one has zoning specials and the other grappling ones, but both share the same animations, normals, speed, etc. Different specials doesn't different chars; in that case ryu with ultra I should be considered another char from Ryu with ultra II etc. That's why people think Decapre is Cammy with a mask, you could argue that her special is now back forward instead of hadouken motion, etc so she "plays" different so she is "different" (same with evil ryu, even if he has his own square with his face on it at the select screen). Itdepends how you look at it and as I think people will consider he 3 variations the same char but, obviously, with 3 variations.

A single meter dependant move that is telegraphed at character select is not compete character change. Variations have already been shown to enact WAY more change. Ie ninjitsu scorpion has entirely different normals. That alone makes him as different from the other two variations as ken is from Ryu in most games

 

[VenomX-90]

B/c of ...

 

[aldazo]

It would be awesome if every variation had different speeds on walk, dash, run, normals, jumping, jumping attacks etc. I know its a lot of work but that will add an extra layer of depth to the game.

Think about this Grapple Kotal Khan having slow walk/dash/run speed and unblockable throws and stuff.

Rush down Kotal Khan fast forward walk speed and good normals while having a slow backdash/ walk speed.

Zoning Kotal Khan Good fast zoning tools but slow normals etc etc

That should be good but I doubt NRS will make such an effort, it will be like creating another char from the start (just with the same skin on it).

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Oh yeah and why give the other team the ball back after getting scored on in football? It totally handicaps the winning team. If those loses want the ball, they should take it fair and square.

because football and fighting games totally relate in every single way

 

[aldazo]

A single meter dependant move that is telegraphed at character select is not compete character change. Variations have already been shown to enact WAY more change. Ie ninjitsu scorpion has entirely different normals. That alone makes him as different from the other two variations as ken is from Ryu in most games

So according to you having different supers doesn't make the char completely different but having different specials would do. I think your definition of what makes a char unique is subjective (obviously, same for all people) but I do think the majority of us will consider the variation just that, variations of the same char and not completely different chars.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

It would be awesome if every variation had different speeds on walk, dash, run, normals, jumping, jumping attacks etc. I know its a lot of work but that will add an extra layer of depth to the game.

Think about this Grapple Kotal Khan having slow walk/dash/run speed and unblockable throws and stuff.

Rush down Kotal Khan fast forward walk speed and good normals while having a slow backdash/ walk speed.

Zoning Kotal Khan Good fast zoning tools but slow normals etc etc

thats just making new characters

 

[cyke_out]

because football and fighting games totally relate in every single way

Football is life. It relates to everything!!!