MKII Tier List Discussion

[X820]

Since the MK2 Tier list wasn't completed it may be a good idea to get it started again..

May be stickied later on.

 

[Kaiba]

Last I recalled it was
1. Jax
2 Mileena
3. Liu Kang
4. Kitana
5. Kung Lao
6. Scorpion
7. Shang
8. Cage
9. Raiden
10. Sub Zero
11. Baraka
12. Reptile

I may have gotten 8/9 backwards.

 

[AriaDelano]

Im still a big rep fan, and i dont think he should sit that low on the tier....ill have to elaborate later-

 

[scheissn]

I think that it is very difficult to make a numbered tier list with MK2.
(I'm not really a tier list fan anyway though)

Baraka and Rep are interchangeable to me. As well as Liu, Mileena, and Jax.
If you really consider them at their max potential, Liu would be #1 with his MBK, not to mention having a move for every button doesn't hurt and his normals are the best in the game.

It is so close though, the it really doesn't matter too much. It only will when a Liu player that can play him to his potential comes around. (SHANGMAN was very close at one point)

 

[X820]

So true..

Kung lao is fucking deadly aswell, people do tend to underestimate him..

I always looked at how people actually used the characters and how they CAN be used overall, not looking at facts like Jax beeing able to stomp the shit out of you without beeing near you, or Mileena spamming for glory etc etc etc

 

[codo27]

Mileena's spot will always bewilder me. If you practice any sort of defense at all I dont find her hard to compete with unless its Kensi or something. Jax well, having two insanely unbalanced attacks in terms of damage, and probably the most options of any character warrants his selection. My inability to effectively pull off half circles as well as timing of the ground punch against good players, and the fact that I am just now starting to use the throw, makes him not so effective for me.

 

[DarkMoon]

Well the thing about Reptile and why everyone wants to scream about Reptile should be higher is because Reptile can destroy. Man I've acted a fool and seen other people do it so many fucking times with Reptile invisible, but it doesn't raise him on the tier list because its online. My opinion most people speak from online experience. If you are standing next to someone and they are invisible with reptile. More then likely you'll have a greater knowledge of what head game they are playing then you would if it were online.

 

[X820]

Well the thing about Reptile and why everyone wants to scream about Reptile should be higher is because Reptile can destroy. Man I've acted a fool and seen other people do it so many fucking times with Reptile invisible, but it doesn't raise him on the tier list because its online. My opinion most people speak from online experience. If you are standing next to someone and they are invisible with reptile. More then likely you'll have a greater knowledge of what head game they are playing then you would if it were online.

Very true..

However, I think that offline doesn't really count as much anymore, as arcades worldwide are dead.
The arcade of today is online (unfortunately).

 

[DarkMoon]

Well the thing about Reptile and why everyone wants to scream about Reptile should be higher is because Reptile can destroy. Man I've acted a fool and seen other people do it so many fucking times with Reptile invisible, but it doesn't raise him on the tier list because its online. My opinion most people speak from online experience. If you are standing next to someone and they are invisible with reptile. More then likely you'll have a greater knowledge of what head game they are playing then you would if it were online.

Very true..

However, I think that offline doesn't really count as much anymore, as arcades worldwide are dead.
The arcade of today is online (unfortunately).

Oh i understand that but it should be more specifically put that, Reptile is better because of online.

 

[scorpangel]

I think that it is very difficult to make a numbered tier list with MK2.
(I'm not really a tier list fan anyway though)

Baraka and Rep are interchangeable to me. As well as Liu, Mileena, and Jax.
If you really consider them at their max potential, Liu would be #1 with his MBK, not to mention having a move for every button doesn't hurt and his normals are the best in the game.

It is so close though, the it really doesn't matter too much. It only will when a Liu player that can play him to his potential comes around. (SHANGMAN was very close at one point)

yea i agree with u liu kang should be #1 cuz of the fireballs and bike kicks but liu does struggle against a skilled jax and maybe mileena but overall theres always a way to beat skilled jax study ur enemies tactics

 

[scorpangel]

well in my opinion i think the tier list of the 3 most top fighters should look like this.


1. Lui Kang

2. Jax

3. Mileena

 

[scorpangel]

my bad with that post i just wrote above that didnt came out right im doing all this on the ps3.

 

[DarkMoon]

Wow, liu kang is not better then Mileena.

 

[X820]

It's a tug war between Jax and Mileena for the #1 spot..

Lui kang is good, especially online with his ability to spam and all, but at the end of the day he's belly up against Mileena for sure.

 

[scorpangel]

maybe but it depends how the player plays

 

[Agent]

I thought the tier list on UMK was changed with Liu Kang being number one.

 

[scorpangel]

idk about dat part i have umk for ds but dont play online much liu does have good combos but his bike kick does low damage. also his fireballs is ok but when u jump in the air with high fireball it shoots too high giving liu a hard time hitting opponents. lius air fireball in mk2 has better accuracy. but then again idk if liu is #1 in umk. i thought it was kabal.

 

[Agent]

idk about dat part i have umk for ds but dont play online much liu does have good combos but his bike kick does low damage. also his fireballs is ok but when u jump in the air with high fireball it shoots too high giving liu a hard time hitting opponents. lius air fireball in mk2 has better accuracy. but then again idk if liu is #1 in umk. i thought it was kabal.

I was talking about the tier list discussion from the old site. I just abbreviated Ultimatemk.com for UMK. I think they changed the top 3 and Liu was ranked number 1.

 

[scheissn]

Highest possible level of play, Liu is #1.
His low fireball would chip her spamming ass, his jp,fb OR instant highest priority uppercut beats her warp kick.
Death punch into bike kick, standing LK (or more damage) for every blocked roll.
Multiple bike kick is just a retarded inf. and the bike kick can be done on someone during their sweeps and used to interrupt many recovery frames that almost always cause someone to attack against other chars.

Not to mention that I don't think that most ppl have even seen this, but it IS possible to get an inf with AFB's alone, and it is completely doable, especially on kb.
It is equally as ridiculous as Mileena's sais, only it is harder to do. I'm not sure how the PS3 controller works, because I have never used it for MK2 but if you can do a jump with either analog, then you have a much greater chance to do back to back AFB's with Liu, just as ppl do with Kitana's quick, low air fan throw on 360 to start an efficient rushdown.

If you are going to rank in the little absurdities that Mileena and Jax have, you have to count all of Liu's as well, even though players don't use them.

The main reason most ppl prefer Jax and Mil is because they feel completely safe using them instead of the wildcard, Liu, because his tactics generally use chaos(baiting) to create an opening, instead of controlling characters with seemingly safe tactics.

Again, Liu is never played to that level, but if there were a lot of players with money on the line, I guarantee you would see them eventually. It is just so much effort to maintain all of those options with such precision that ppl would rather use the easier chars.

This is why I hate tier lists though, it would take a looooot of practice to even be able to perform most of that stuff, let alone make it work (Meaning the people that need the info to learn won't be able to use it properly to begin with >_< ). Generally the people that are good already know what is up, but I think that this is one of the few cases were it differs.

Normal level of play that high level players are at in MK2. Mil > Liu, so it all depends on how you look at it as far as the fight between them goes.

 

[dubson]

Here is a grid of the latest of me and Konqrr's work on an actual tier list.

But ever since MK vs. DC happened, he got sucked into that, and I was all that is left to work on it out of us 2.

But Kitana will go up higher after more testing with her. At the very least above Scorpion.

The bottom 4 is pretty set IMO.

The invisibility of Reptile was mentioned earlier in this thread. First of all, it is very hard to scale something like that (ofcourse, MK is the only competitive fighting game series with characters going invisible) but obviously it is in advantage. But what hurts the most is the start up time. If you keep constant pressure on him, he really shouldn't be able to go invisible very often, and if you open your ears, you should be fine. All you really have to do is sit back and turtle, Reptile has to come to you to win as he really has no decent spam game. He is definitely the weakest over-all character in the game IMO.

Top spot is going to have to be Liu or Jax, but I am positive it is not Mileena.

It is such a close race between Liu and Jax every time we do these charts.

Jax is just ridiculous though IMO, his MGP, his punishers and his throw that does an absurd amount of damage, and then we have Liu who can literally time a fireball of some sort to cancel out anything you do.

I think me and Konqrr also agreed, it goes Liu, Jax, Mil. But it is so close between Liu and Jax, more testing is needed.

The last step I was working on was getting the best player for ever character to make a proper tier list. This one above is just based on me and Konqrr's speculation. But this is how a real tier list should be made.

This is a Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo tier list that was made in Japan.

http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/11/super-turbo-new-arcadia-diagram.html

As you can see, to the right of every character is the assumed best person with that specific character.

That is the best way to do this.

So who ever you people thinks has the best Jax, Liu, Baraka, Sub, everyone. Start discussing this.

I think it has been said scorpangel has the best Liu on PSN, I know Aria has one of my favorite Reptiles, dvd has an awesome Jax, I heard Real_Talk has an awesome Sub, Yung has a sick Scorp and Sushi has a nasty Raiden.

Who is the best with who, in your guys' opinion? Repeats are fine too, meaning if you think someone has the best 2 or 3 or however many characters that is completely fine.

 

[scheissn]

Top spot is going to have to be Liu or Jax, but I am positive it is not Mileena.

It is such a close race between Liu and Jax every time we do these charts.

Jax is just ridiculous though IMO, his MGP, his punishers and his throw that does an absurd amount of damage, and then we have Liu who can literally time a fireball of some sort to cancel out anything you do.

I think me and Konqrr also agreed, it goes Liu, Jax, Mil. But it is so close between Liu and Jax, more testing is needed.

That is the way I see it. Jax played at high level would beat Mil. She just doesn't deal as much damage as the other two, unless you get a hard to setup inf/high damage combo with her. Plus both of them have more options than her.

The only reason I would agree that she is #1 is how heavily you factor in 'ease of use'.

 

[dubson]

I agree, but the only thing is like, Liu has got to be the easiest character to dominate with, which is even more fuel to his fire of top place IMO.

The female ninja's basics alone though is enough to keep them high and dominate the cast, not even mentioning their corner capabilities.

Shang is the same way, his basics are so good that is all he really needs to win with.

The middle tier (Shang,Kung,Kitana,Scorp) is just as hard to determine as the top tier at times.

 

[Konqrr]

MKDC did take me away, I love the game...but I still want to work on this.

EDIT: Here are the last ones we worked on, side by side. The latest one has red numbers for what changed:



Sorry the colors are messed up...this grid editing is a huge pain in the ass...

Liu Kang just has an answer for everything. His jp beats every air move in the game and links to an air fireball, bike kick does more damage than an uppercut and comes out extremely fast. You always have to be on guard for a random flying kick. Best uppercut in the game. Low Fireball as anti air. You can't back him into the corner because once you get close he just flying kicks over you and back to his safe zone.

 

[scorpangel]

yea i totally agree with konqrr liu should be #1 because the fireballs and the bike kick which does alot of damage and that jp to a bike kick does extra damage. liu has many advantages if used well. his toe kiks are good but kinda useless against mileena kitana, and shang tsung since they have good sweeps. also kinda useless against raiden because skilled raidens will use his shock grab move to stop lius toe kick. but overall liu pretty much has advantages he may have a few combos but the anti fireballs and bike kicks it wat keeps him safe. but then again vs a high level jax can be tough. its a tug war against liu and jax. bruce lee kang should have the advantage lol.

 

[dubson]

Good to see you finally posting with us scorpangel. I appreciate your input.

Thanks for posting the latest drafts we worked on Konqrr. Good to see you posting amigo.

I think it is clear that Liu and Jax are better than Mileena, although she cannot be any lower than spot 3. There is just no way. The gap between the top tier and the middle tier is big enough to where it just cannot happen.