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MKII Tier List Discussion

mortal_jason

mortal_jason

Kitana's Bodyguard
MKillBill said:
If the "Ultimate MK2" rom hack gets released to the public relatively soon, I'll start working on one.
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Sounds awesome... though Mame is a hard place to have a tournament.
First of all, not many people use it.
And both players have to be using the same emulator version....
Let's not even talk about trying to connect P2P with someone.
I tried playing Kensi on there months ago and we couldn't connect P2P because our clients were from different months LOL.
So we tried playing in a regular room but the connection was horrendous.
Mame = headache.

Is there some way Ultimate MK2 would be coming to PS3?
 
MKB

MKB

Forum General Emeritus
mortal_jason said:
Sounds awesome... though Mame is a hard place to have a tournament.
First of all, not many people use it.
And both players have to be using the same emulator version....
Let's not even talk about trying to connect P2P with someone.
I tried playing Kensi on there months ago and we couldn't connect P2P because our clients were from different months LOL.
So we tried playing in a regular room but the connection was horrendous.
Mame = headache.

Is there some way Ultimate MK2 would be coming to PS3?
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I doubt the rom gets released on a major console, considering its a hack and an unofficial release.
 
mortal_jason

mortal_jason

Kitana's Bodyguard
MKillBill said:
It would probably be better to make each character unique and give them different jump height and speed, ala street fighter.
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MKillBill said:
I doubt the rom gets released on a major console, considering its a hack and an unofficial release.
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Kinda what I figured, that's why I haven't gotten too excited about the revision, since it most likely won't be available to many people.
Thought if Boon was behind the revision he could have it re-released.
Would definitely love to use the newly rebuffed Cage!
 
Dyzvhtynzal

Dyzvhtynzal

Kombatant
I was thinking again... didn't Zaq mention 'priority' a while back? What role does that play in all of this? And, how can you tell if you have it or not? For example, Jax and Scorpion jump at each other and hit the block button at the same time, but Scorpion gets his spine snapped instead of whipping Jax across the screen. Also is there an explanation for why a throw is often successful against an opponent when he/she is halfway through an uppercut or other defensive attack? For example, Kung Lao dive kicks a ducking opponent who anticipated the move and uppercutted the thing. Yet, two results are possible. Kung Lao throws the opponent as he's landing or gets smashed by the uppercut. Is this all about timing, or is there more to it - like priority? Same thing when Scorpion zips to the other side of the screen.... sometimes he can throw you automatically, or, your ducking low punch or kick will stop him.
My point is... the idea of tier is further destroyed by the presence of this because the character's move
 
Dyzvhtynzal

Dyzvhtynzal

Kombatant
didn't matter. The outcome was determined by the computer.Am I mistaken? Are a lot of successful defenses and attacks the result of chance? That's what i'm trying to say. If they are, then something can be said against tier.
Right now, i say tier can neither be proven nor unproven because no matter how many times Milenna beats Reptile, i can argue that a better Reptile player can reverse what's accepted. I'm just trying to figure out if 'priority' fits into this puzzle anywhere, and, if it does, how?
 
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mortal_jason

mortal_jason

Kitana's Bodyguard
Dyzvhtynzal said:
didn't matter. The outcome was determined by the computer.Am I mistaken? Are a lot of successful defenses and attacks the result of chance? That's what i'm trying to say. If they are, then something can be said against tier.
Right now, i say tier can neither be proven nor unproven because no matter how many times Milenna beats Reptile, i can argue that a better Reptile player can reverse what's accepted. I'm just trying to figure out if 'priority' fits into this puzzle anywhere, and, if it does, how?
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Priority is still all about timing. In lag, timing gets messed up, so it's a lot harder to control.
If you uppercut and your opponent throws at the exact right time, the throw will get priority.

You will notice sometimes in a mirror match, if both players jump kick at the EXACT same time, both characters just meet in the air without either getting hit.
If 1 player had just hit HK a fraction earlier or sooner in the air, it would have changed priority.
 
Sub0's-Icy-Balls

Sub0's-Icy-Balls

Frozen Death (ANTI-TIERIST)
theres definitely something to priority, and Jason's correct about it being who pushes the button first. When I play people with auto-fire like Culongy, I have to play him differently than regular people because he will always get priority when it comes to throws/ air throws/ sweeps.
 
Dyzvhtynzal

Dyzvhtynzal

Kombatant
Just a quick question about Shang... If he morphs into Reptile and goes invisible, can reverting back to Shang be avoided? Don't recall if this was ever asked. A yes or no will suffice. LOL, i'm working on new Reptile technology.
 
mortal_jason

mortal_jason

Kitana's Bodyguard
Sub0's-Icy-Balls said:
theres definitely something to priority, and Jason's correct about it being who pushes the button first. When I play people with auto-fire like Culongy, I have to play him differently than regular people because he will always get priority when it comes to throws/ air throws/ sweeps.
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It's not always who pushes the button first though. Often it's whoever pushes it LAST.
It comes down to where the fighters' boxes meet in the air.
For example with Lao, you can beat nearly anyone in the air with a jump punch if you hit HP after they hit HP/HK.
Lao is pushing the button last, but he is the one getting priority.

As you get more acquainted with all the characters you start to understand when/how to push the buttons to win air battles.
This is one reason I get so irritated in lag when I lose a round to someone from them winning 5 air battles.

Why would Culongy get priority on sweeps with auto-fire?
If he does in fact auto-fire moves, I don't think sweeps would be one of them.
 
Konqrr

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
I just went through the matchup threads here and plugged in the numbers everyone (mostly @MKillBill and @mortal_jason) put in there... here are the results:

1. Mileena (89)
2. Jax (81)
3. Liu Kang (78)
!!Lao/Kitana/Shang are all tied for 4th!!
4. Kung Lao (68) *beats Shang
4. Kitana (68)
6. Shang Tsung (68) *loses to Kung Lao
7. Raiden (57)
8. Scorpion (50)
9. Baraka (46)
10. Cage (43)
11. Sub-Zero (40)
12. Reptile (32)

I'll put up the latest version of my MKII Tier Grid when I have time to rearrange it.

@ZAQ @Shock @Sub0's-Icy-Balls @Dyzvhtynzal
 
mortal_jason

mortal_jason

Kitana's Bodyguard
Konqrr said:
I just went through the matchup threads here and plugged in the numbers everyone (mostly @MKillBill and @mortal_jason) put in there... here are the results:

1. Mileena (89)
2. Jax (81)
3. Liu Kang (78)
!!Lao/Kitana/Shang are all tied for 4th!!
4. Kung Lao (68) *beats Shang
4. Kitana (68)
6. Shang Tsung (68) *loses to Kung Lao
7. Raiden (57)
8. Scorpion (50)
9. Baraka (46)
10. Cage (43)
11. Sub-Zero (40)
12. Reptile (32)

I'll put up the latest version of my MKII Tier Grid when I have time to rearrange it.

@ZAQ @Shock @Sub0's-Icy-Balls @Dyzvhtynzal
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Looks good and sounds spot on to me.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
I don't know MK2 on a competitive level at all and I just know the basic stuff about it, so I have a question: What is it about Mileena that makes her the highest on the tier list?
 
MKB

MKB

Forum General Emeritus
Eldriken said:
Sai Toss? Really? :confused: How come?
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It's not just the sai, it's the air sai. There is supposed to be a one second delay on sai tosses, but air sais negate that rule (due to poor programming.) Combined with the fact that she has 100%+ corner combos with little effort, she is stupid good.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
MKillBill said:
It's not just the sai, it's the air sai. There is supposed to be a one second delay on sai tosses, but air sais negate that rule (due to poor programming.) Combined with the fact that she has 100%+ corner combos with little effort, she is stupid good.
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Ah, I see. I never had the slightest clue.

I always played Kitana, but I never played at a high level and the best combo I could do with Kitana was a corner combo that took like 60%~ life. I thought it was the best combo in the game. XD
 
Konqrr

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
MKillBill said:
It's not just the sai, it's the air sai. There is supposed to be a one second delay on sai tosses, but air sais negate that rule (due to poor programming.) Combined with the fact that she has 100%+ corner combos with little effort, she is stupid good.
Click to expand...
nope, not one second.. Only 34 frames which is just over 1/2 a second in-game. Not a glitch... Intended.
 
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mortal_jason

mortal_jason

Kitana's Bodyguard
MKillBill said:
It's not just the sai, it's the air sai. There is supposed to be a one second delay on sai tosses, but air sais negate that rule (due to poor programming.) Combined with the fact that she has 100%+ corner combos with little effort, she is stupid good.
Click to expand...
Right on about the Air Sai. What do you mean by 100% corner combos with little effort though?
Most of her bad ass corner combos take off in the 50-70% range and require lots of skill.
She has that weird aaHP/Roll/cLP/Roll/cLP/Roll etc corner combo, but that is EXTREMELY hard to do.
Are there some I am forgetting about?

@Eldriken Mileena is #1 in MK2, but she is not an automatic win.
Her Roll and Telekick are very punishable. And Jax, Liu, Lao and Raiden all give her a very good match.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
mortal_jason said:
Right on about the Air Sai. What do you mean by 100% corner combos with little effort though?
Most of her bad ass corner combos take off in the 50-70% range and require lots of skill.
She has that weird aaHP/Roll/cLP/Roll/cLP/Roll etc corner combo, but that is EXTREMELY hard to do.
Are there some I am forgetting about?

@Eldriken Mileena is #1 in MK2, but she is not an automatic win.
Her Roll and Telekick are very punishable. And Jax, Liu, Lao and Raiden all give her a very good match.
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I didn't figure she was an automatic win despite her being #1. That's often never the case. =P
 
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