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MK2 Tier List 2020?

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Just mentioning, I remember seeing Baraka at 6th place on the tier lists once. I have never seen a list where Reptile is not last.
Look at the links that I gave on my last post, the majority of lists on their show Reptile as not the last character.
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
Look at the links that I gave on my last post, the majority of lists on their show Reptile as not the last character.
I think it's to be a long discussion with a lot of reasons the move needs to be made or not, it's not as cut and dry as you're making it sound so quickly
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I think it's to be a long discussion with a lot of reasons the move needs to be made or not, it's not as cut and dry as you're making it sound so quickly
I only replied to him to show that there are a bunch of lists that don't put Reptile as last, since he said that he never saw that on any tier list. As for the idea of a discussion, I already gave more then enough points and proofs for why Reptile is higher, it's not cut and dry at all. But if a discussion is truly needed then I'm all for it. I was asking for an updated tier list after all, so a discussion may very well result in an updated, modern-day Tier List.
 
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Look at the links that I gave on my last post, the majority of lists on their show Reptile as not the last character.
Interesting. I wonder what has changed so much that made Baraka fall from 6th to 12th.

This thread needs input from current top mk2 players.
 
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MKB

Human Gameshark
Interesting. I wonder what has changed so much that made Baraka fall from 6th to 12th.

This thread needs input from current top mk2 players.
Here we go... Looking at the tiers...

TOP TIER
Mileena
Liu Kang
Jax

HIGH MID
Kung Lao
Kitana
Shang

LOW MID
Raiden
Baraka
Scorpion

BOTTOM TIER
Reptile
Cage
Sub Zero

Characters listed in the tier are in no particular order, but everyone generally agrees they fall into these groupings. Baraka falls into the low mid section. I have him losing to everyone above him as well as everyone in his own bracket. He also loses to Sub Zero, but general consensus says Baraka is better so I will concede that one. He will give various characters fits clear up to Kung Lao, but ultimately fall short if both players play at the highest level. The main reason Baraka falls short is because of his lack of a true zone game and his inability to deal with projectile spam. He can't teleport to avoid Jax's ground pound, Mileena's air sai, or Liu's IAF.

Bottom line, in a world where everyone plays at the highest level, there is no way Baraka is 6th place. At the same time, he's certainly not last place because he can destroy Reptile and Cage up close.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Here we go... Looking at the tiers...

TOP TIER
Mileena
Liu Kang
Jax

HIGH MID
Kung Lao
Kitana
Shang

LOW MID
Raiden
Baraka
Scorpion

BOTTOM TIER
Reptile
Cage
Sub Zero

Characters listed in the tier are in no particular order, but everyone generally agrees they fall into these groupings. Baraka falls into the low mid section. I have him losing to everyone above him as well as everyone in his own bracket. He also loses to Sub Zero, but general consensus says Baraka is better so I will concede that one. He will give various characters fits clear up to Kung Lao, but ultimately fall short if both players play at the highest level. The main reason Baraka falls short is because of his lack of a true zone game and his inability to deal with projectile spam. He can't teleport to avoid Jax's ground pound, Mileena's air sai, or Liu's IAF.

Bottom line, in a world where everyone plays at the highest level, there is no way Baraka is 6th place. At the same time, he's certainly not last place because he can destroy Reptile and Cage up close.
And what about Reptile? Why would you put him in the bottom group? He clearly should Zone out Baraka thanks for being the only character that can have two different projectiles on the screen, even if it's only the Acid Spit and Slow Forceball (and without the Fast one).
 

ded

Elder God
i've always wondered why cage is not bottom tier. good to know i was not the only one.
 
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MKB

Human Gameshark
And what about Reptile? Why would you put him in the bottom group? He clearly should Zone out Baraka thanks for being the only character that can have two different projectiles on the screen, even if it's only the Acid Spit and Slow Forceball (and without the Fast one).
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I really think you underrate Reptile in this MU. If Baraka really can't deal with Reptile's Zoning due to not having a good Zoning game of his own, and he only gets super scary when he get's close to him, that means that Reptile should be scary for Baraka from full screen. And then the Invisibility and Slide give Reptile other options to deal with Baraka so he wouldn't stuck him in the corner. This looks to me like a 5-5, if not even 6-4 for Reptile, or maybe 4-6 for Baraka at worst, but not 3-7 for either of them. This is of course my take on it, as it seems to me at least.
 

MKB

Human Gameshark
I really think you underrate Reptile in this MU. If Baraka really can't deal with Reptile's Zoning due to not having a good Zoning game of his own, and he only gets super scary when he get's close to him, that means that Reptile should be scary for Baraka from full screen. And then the Invisibility and Slide give Reptile's other options to deal with Baraka so he wouldn't stuck him in the corner. This looks to me like 5-5, if not even 6-4 for Reptile, or maybe 4-6 for Baraka at worst, but not 3-7 for either of them.
If Reptile wants to spam from full screen, Baraka can trade blade sparks for a net gain of 6% damage. Invisibility is the only way Reptile takes the edge. In any event, a good Baraka player is not going to let that happen and will be up in Reptiles face all day long. Both characters need to get in close here. In terms of CQC, Baraka wins that battle going away.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
If Reptile wants to spam from full screen, Baraka can trade blade sparks for a net gain of 6% damage. Invisibility is the only way Reptile takes the edge. In any event, a good Baraka player is not going to let that happen and will be up in Reptiles face all day long. Both characters need to get in close here. In terms of CQC, Baraka wins that battle going away.
First off, what is exactly CQC? Never heard that term before.

Secondly, so you're saying that Baraka doesn't have good Zoning (that's what you said in the post from the MU thread), but yet he can still counter-Zone Reptile just with Blade Spark alone?

And finally, and this is the main reason why I wanted to make this thread, is there no changes to the meta or tier lists of MK2 in recent years like UMK3 got? I've seen Reptile getting a good amount of wins in recent tournies, and I also didn't see the players who picked him using the Invisibility that much, if at all, really.
 

MKB

Human Gameshark
First off, what is exactly CQC? Never heard that term before.

Secondly, so you're saying that Baraka doesn't have good Zoning (that's what you said in the post from the MU thread), but yet he can still counter-Zone Reptile just with Blade Spark alone?

And finally, and this is the main reason why I wanted to make this thread, is there no changes to the meta or tier lists of MK2 in recent years like UMK3 got? I've seen Reptile getting a good amount of wins in recent tournies, and I also didn't see the players who picked him using the Invisibility that much, if at all, really.
CQC = Close quarter combat

As far as Baraka zoning, I'm not saying he's going to win a fight just by spamming the blade spark. Reptile can easily slide under that. It just means that if Reptile is going to spam projectiles, Baraka will win the battle in tradeoff damage.

I'm always open to discussing the tier list and new ideas, that's what these forums are all about. But there has been so much data and gameplay on this discussion by so many players that it's pretty much set in stone, at least in terms of tier groupings.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
CQC = Close quarter combat

As far as Baraka zoning, I'm not saying he's going to win a fight just by spamming the blade spark. Reptile can easily slide under that. It just means that if Reptile is going to spam projectiles, Baraka will win the battle in tradeoff damage.

I'm always open to discussing the tier list and new ideas, that's what these forums are all about. But there has been so much data and gameplay on this discussion by so many players that it's pretty much set in stone, at least in terms of tier groupings.
No disrespect, but "spam" and Zoning are two completely different terms with different definitions. Just saying.

And as for the tier groupings, I get what you're saying, but the discussions that were made back then and the results that are seen in actual matches recently don't match each other. And this is probably true not just for Reptile, but perhaps other characters too.
 

MKB

Human Gameshark
No disrespect, but "spam" and Zoning are two completely different terms with different definitions. Just saying.

And as for the tier groupings, I get what you're saying, but the discussions that were made back then and the results that are seen in actual matches recently don't match each other. And this is probably true not just for Reptile, but perhaps other characters too.
I'll have to watch some of the recent matches out there. A lot of it depends on the quality of player using the character. I know you (or someone else) mentioned there was a FT3 where Reptile beat Mileena 3-0. While anything is possible if the player is highly skilled, I assure you this is the exception and not the norm.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I'll have to watch some of the recent matches out there. A lot of it depends on the quality of player using the character. I know you (or someone else) mentioned there was a FT3 where Reptile beat Mileena 3-0. While anything is possible if the player is highly skilled, I assure you this is the exception and not the norm.
Yes it was me posting that video.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
1.Jax-Can beat anyone in the right hands even mileena is no match for him all she can do is surprise roll and hope it hits for some combo damage

2.Mileena-Easily beats kang and anyone else but jax super top tier mileena is mk 2s Sagat from ST street fighter 2

3.Liu Kang-Owns raiden and kung lao and can spam Kitana really bad and kitand 5th on the tier list

4.Kung Lao-Is a very hard character to master but in the hands of an elite player is super pesky and tough to beat even for mileena and jax.

5.Kitana-Her damage and combo setups are deadly has a great sweep and anti air normals

6.shang tsung-owns raiden all you have to do is walk all the way in the corner vs raiden to stop his teleport spam

7.Raiden-better then all the ninjas

8.Baraka-Great damage and anti air and jump kicks BETTER then all the ninjas

9.Scorpion-Best ninja character but gets owned badly vs the top 3 characters esp liu kang all liu has to do is low toe

10.Sub Zero-Can go even with kang and can cause problems for baraka more so then scorp can

11.Johnny cage-semi decent anti air game and fast sweeeps with good CQC tactics

12.Reptile-Pure crap cant beat anyone
Completely ignores the rest of the thread, and keeps double posting. I see what you're all about then. Whatever dude.