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MK11's Gimped Neutral

dash grab is also hated by a lot of people in sf5. i don't mind it. chernyy you have a point but get a better mic and practice your script. i can see your yt becoming decent.

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
dash grab is also hated by a lot of people in sf5. i don't mind it. chernyy you have a point but get a better mic and practice your script. i can see your yt becoming decent.
I do these videos off the cuff with no script lol. Maybe I'll work on it but the people who regularly watch like the fact that it's kind of raw. I do intend to get a better mic though in the future.

Dash grab sucks, but at least in SFV most grab ranges are point blank. Grabs in this game have d1 ranges. Combined with dashing, it's absurd.


dash grab is also hated by a lot of people in sf5. i don't mind it. chernyy you have a point but get a better mic and practice your script. i can see your yt becoming decent.
Theres nothing wrong with dash grab in sfv. It happens in any game. Heck, you can even extend your throw range in tekken or vf by pressing forward. Then you also have kara throws in sf games. The big problem with sfv were throw loops because of the weak defensive options in the game.


PSN: Cansuela
This is just absolutely incorrect. Literally 3/4 of Frost's combos require a dash cancel.

Johnny's also require them. Just the two characters I play.

Stop chatting such flippant BS.
I’m pretty sure dash cancelling is required for a lot combos. But I’m not 100% sure. I do know that I’ve never landed noob’s 113xxdu amp, micro dash cancel 113 (whiff the first hit) xxdu without the dash cancel. I have been able to do the second 113 and not whiff the first hit by simply walking forward a bit and landing all of 113xxdu, but goddamn is that tight. But I guess that’s Cherny’s point about execution.

I don’t know....I don’t think I can do noob’s corner combo with the amp tele into s4xxdb4,113bf2 without dashing up before the s4. And I don’t think you can do shang’s bnb starterxxdb1 amp, DC s4xxdb1f1 without the dash cancel. I can’t test it right now, but even if it is possible, it’s probably not possible for me to do it with anything nearing consistency online.

It’s interesting. I’ve never considered the fact that micro dashing and canceling into a normal could be broken in some way. I do it all the time without thinking about it. I don’t consider myself knowledgeable or good enough to weigh in on the OP topic, but I do know that I use the mechanic constantly.


MD| Soberless (Cyrax Loyalist)
I don't think Dashing into button is broke. Honestly without the ability to dash cancel into normal 60% or more of the combos would be nonexistent and lackluster.

I just feel the examples provided where not the best examples. Characters that suffer from mud range like Liu Kang benefit from DC's. This is how Its been in every MK since dash existed and Run Cancels. If you have high execution you are rewarded with perks and that's a good thing. Shit characters like Kotal would be nothing without it and we wouldn't see players like furious pillow make top 32's if not for dash cancels.
There are more benefits to Iran than there are drawbacks. Yes Liu Kang can guarantee pressure after you respect the gap in F43u3 but that's not a big deal there are ways around it just not Backdash obviously. I figured everyone would understand Lius F43U3 is plus on block and has block stun so naturally you shouldn't try backdashing. There is a Gap in that string which you can consistently punish all of his options after F43 and IRS not hard to do more than 11f gap.
Then he could try using it on F4 and F43 stagger but they have -7 or more on block so you can Backdash those so I don't see the problem really?

@Chernyy Volk
Why is this a problem? Why don't you want Dash Cancels, why are you against Projectiles?
I'm not seeing any problems at majors with ant of these. They are not broke or oppressive from what I've seen?


AKA Uncle Kano
I mean, I think you missed where I said all projectiles and anti zoning options as a result would also have to take huge recovery hits. I've thought about this already.
Fair enough, then the suggestion makes a lot more sense. I just don't think it would sit well with the pros as they didnt like how slow paced the original version was, but maybe opinions changed seeing how the game is progressing. I personally dont mind the way it is but I see where you come from. I'm a bit biased as I play Tekken a lot as well, and wavedashing and cancelling them into certain moves are a part of the game. Otherwise short ranged launchers can become deadly with wavedashing in that game
Amazing job here, man. Easily MK11's biggest flaw since the beta. It is why i stopped playing the game after the first beta. I'm glad someone has finally brought it up here. Just wish more people would of known the solution.

The solution is to make blocking during backdashes instant like in MK9. The problem was very apparent in the beta getting hit by Scorpion Teleports while backdashing a step. It is why i stopped playing after the beta.

Hope this solution serves as an end to this thread. Not looking to debate. Just offer my solution and leave.

Take care, everyone.