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MK11 Reversal Throw defensive options.

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SonicNinja3532

SonicNinja3532

The Wannabe Prodigy
This won’t change the meta at all. Anyone worth their salt will know that you can easily shimmy tf out of anyone trying to reversal throw. Literally all the examples you listed do nothing to prove throw is broken like at all.

The cassie example means nothing because if you think you can consistently be pressing throw on reversal anyway you’re very likely wrong, and on top of that any high level cassie is just gonna let you whiff the throw anyway.

The kabal example is also void especially because for one kabal can finish the string and it has a 2 or so frame gap so your reversal throw will come out and still get crushed, and he can also walk back out of throw range, especially if f22 is done anywhere besides like point blank.

The fucking noob example also means nothing because no one in their right mind is gonna be throwing out a throw in neutral, because that’s a quick way to get your ass punished.

Lastly, virtually anytime you can get beat by a throw is a time where you can get beat by any other normal. If someone reversal throws on your stagger, they can also press a button, and if they press a button they’ll probably be able to convert into a full combo unless its a poke.

Long story short, this is not meta changing at all, and throws are not this ridiculous overpowered force.
 
Under_The_Mayo

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
TakeAChance said:
I was on a quest today to see if throws out prioritized normals. My conclusion was incorrect and my Labbing continues. However, the reversal throw is a tool that beats a lot of non frame perfect junk. It's just not as tight as I initially thought (by 1 frame)
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I think you should change your thread title. Because if throws are not beating the active frames of normals, there is no advantage.
 
Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
lets talk about the fact that teching a throw leaves you negative which means its still your opponents turn. it certainly feels that way because anytime i try to poke after a throw tech i always seem to get beat out.
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
SonicNinja3532 said:
This won’t change the meta at all. Anyone worth their salt will know that you can easily shimmy tf out of anyone trying to reversal throw. Literally all the examples you listed do nothing to prove throw is broken like at all.

The cassie example means nothing because if you think you can consistently be pressing throw on reversal anyway you’re very likely wrong, and on top of that any high level cassie is just gonna let you whiff the throw anyway.

The kabal example is also void especially because for one kabal can finish the string and it has a 2 or so frame gap so your reversal throw will come out and still get crushed, and he can also walk back out of throw range, especially if f22 is done anywhere besides like point blank.

The fucking noob example also means nothing because no one in their right mind is gonna be throwing out a throw in neutral, because that’s a quick way to get your ass punished.

Lastly, virtually anytime you can get beat by a throw is a time where you can get beat by any other normal. If someone reversal throws on your stagger, they can also press a button, and if they press a button they’ll probably be able to convert into a full combo unless its a poke.

Long story short, this is not meta changing at all, and throws are not this ridiculous overpowered force.
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He stated all of those things

I know reading is hard

/shrug.
 
S

Sanjo

Noob
Invincible Salads said:
cuz i remember teching throws against a johnny cage online and everytime i'd try to poke, i'd get beaten by d4 or some shit. then at the very least maybe throw teching should push back just a bit further?
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J.Cage's d4 is a 8f low that low profile and has very good reach.
 
Rip Torn

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
TyCarter35 said:
I think the one to activate it first wins out normally due to the fact that fatal blows aren't instantly armored
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I'm talking about two fatal blows hitting at the exact same time. Like I tested Liu Kang vs Liu Kang and hit the buttons at the same time (or tried to) and it seemed like P1 was winning more often then not. They never cancel each other out, one always wins. So it's either always P1, or just random.
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
I've been saying this since forever.

Throws shouldn't beat buttons, it makes absolutely no sense. If you think the opponent is about to press buttons use mids (which hopefully will get a fix) and shimmies.
 
Gaxkang

Gaxkang

Banned
Invincible Salads said:
lets talk about the fact that teching a throw leaves you negative which means its still your opponents turn. it certainly feels that way because anytime i try to poke after a throw tech i always seem to get beat out.
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Well after teching a throw Liu Kang can mash out his forward string shenanigans and say a B4 (even a good one) won't stop it. Not sure if something will stop it.
 
TakeAChance

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
SonicNinja3532 said:
This won’t change the meta at all. Anyone worth their salt will know that you can easily shimmy tf out of anyone trying to reversal throw. Literally all the examples you listed do nothing to prove throw is broken like at all.

The cassie example means nothing because if you think you can consistently be pressing throw on reversal anyway you’re very likely wrong, and on top of that any high level cassie is just gonna let you whiff the throw anyway.

The kabal example is also void especially because for one kabal can finish the string and it has a 2 or so frame gap so your reversal throw will come out and still get crushed, and he can also walk back out of throw range, especially if f22 is done anywhere besides like point blank.

The fucking noob example also means nothing because no one in their right mind is gonna be throwing out a throw in neutral, because that’s a quick way to get your ass punished.

Lastly, virtually anytime you can get beat by a throw is a time where you can get beat by any other normal. If someone reversal throws on your stagger, they can also press a button, and if they press a button they’ll probably be able to convert into a full combo unless its a poke.

Long story short, this is not meta changing at all, and throws are not this ridiculous overpowered force.
Click to expand...
The only thing I'll say to counter this...is a reversal throw will eat any moves hurt box that comes into contact with IT. Let's say in the Cassie situation she f4's. If you standing one that with most characters it is technically faster than her f4, but it's still going to lose to the f4 because the S1 will whiff and the f4 will beat the second hit of that string before it comes out.

A reversal throw on the other hand acts a bit differently. If any normal that's not airborne's hurtbox comes into contact with a throw when it's active , the throw will win regardless of range. If the opponents hurt box hits the throw at any point, the throw will win unless they both collide with active frames and in that situation the normal will win.

That's why you see a situation like in my op where Kano can throw Noob from an extremely far distance.
 
SonicNinja3532

SonicNinja3532

The Wannabe Prodigy
TakeAChance said:
The only thing I'll say to counter this...is a reversal throw will eat any moves hurt box that comes into contact with IT. Let's say in the Cassie situation she f4's. If you standing one that with most characters it is technically faster than her f4, but it's still going to lose to the f4 because the S1 will whiff and the f4 will beat the second hit of that string before it comes out.

A reversal throw on the other hand acts a bit differently. If any normal that's not airborne's hurtbox comes into contact with a throw when it's active , the throw will win regardless of range. If the opponents hurt box hits the throw at any point, the throw will win unless they both collide with active frames and in that situation the normal will win.

That's why you see a situation like in my op where Kano can throw Noob from an extremely far distance.
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On the point of the button whiffing but the throw not whiffing, its completely case specific. Like button to button then character to character specific. I know how throws work, but despite this there’s still absolutely nothing to suggest reversal throw will ever change the meta in some groundbreaking way.
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
TakeAChance said:
The only thing I'll say to counter this...is a reversal throw will eat any moves hurt box that comes into contact with IT. Let's say in the Cassie situation she f4's. If you standing one that with most characters it is technically faster than her f4, but it's still going to lose to the f4 because the S1 will whiff and the f4 will beat the second hit of that string before it comes out.

A reversal throw on the other hand acts a bit differently. If any normal that's not airborne's hurtbox comes into contact with a throw when it's active , the throw will win regardless of range. If the opponents hurt box hits the throw at any point, the throw will win unless they both collide with active frames and in that situation the normal will win.

That's why you see a situation like in my op where Kano can throw Noob from an extremely far distance.
Click to expand...
Chance again you're still treating throws like they're different from any other button. A reversal throw is just like a 9f mid with 2 active frames and a horizontal range that depends on the character. Thats it. It's just another option in your defense kit.

You can jab or poke or hit with basically anything from an extremely far distance too.
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
TakeAChance said:
This just makes things more confusing lol.

So a reversal throw will sometimes beat a 9f startup move and sometimes it won't?
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If they collide on the same frame then yes it's a random outcome because throws don't trade with normals and we don't have P1 advantage anymore.
 
TakeAChance

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Braindead said:
If they collide on the same frame then yes it's a random outcome because throws don't trade with normals and we don't have P1 advantage anymore.
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Thank you.

Also, to everyone here that is trying to give me shit...I was not an active twitter user until the launch of MK11, I didn't see the dizzy tweets, or any of that info until it was pointed out here today.

That's on me. I mistakingly thought that the startup frames in this game were including the first active frame...like every other fighting game. That's also on me.

But the overall rude demeanour by some of you l, when I was actually trying to figure something out and share it (which we sorely need more of and works btw) is shocking to say the least. That's on those that decide to educate and be an asshole about it.

I'm coachable. I can sift through that because quite frankly, I just don't care enough to hold it. This day and age tho, that may not be the norm.

Thanks to all of those who have helped me nail this down. I now have a better understanding of this game.
 
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MagicMan357

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
Braindead makes a post showing they did it on purpose and people are now saying its stupid yet wasnt TYM crying about d1 spam? LMFAO i just cant, like someone else said only after 8 years do people get it?

Man this site has me in tears xD
 
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