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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

Owerbart

Owerbart

I miss you
Qwark28 said:
If that's what you understood from layer 1, let alone layer 3-4 stuff, I can't be assed explaining footsies to you.

Maybe bc ppl play for money and pick 99% of the time the top 5.

Do you play for money?

Just seems this subforum has a lot of ppl who are straight up bad and don't understand footsies, maybe nrs games are all they've ever played.

My apologies that a footsie based char has to be frequented by ppl who know nothing about the topic, to any understanding individual
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it's funny that you always speak with your head so deep in your ass and your only criticism is "you are bad!!!11!" when people here, even cage mains that i disagree with, at least are giving arguments.
nobody even knows who you are, you've been the same guy from greece that since mk9 was hyping yourself in kind of an echo chamber.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Owerbart said:
it's funny that you always speak with your head so deep in your ass and your only criticism is "you are bad!!!11!" when people here, even cage mains that i disagree with, at least are giving arguments.
nobody even knows who you are, you've been the same guy from greece that since mk9 was hyping yourself in kind of an echo chamber.
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Don't remember hyping myself up anytime in the last 6 years.

You can stay free and ignore your better's advice though. It's not like I gave any arguments in the last page, right?
 
SpideR

SpideR

Noob
Hello guys, im not new but im was missing since the mk9 dead scene. Im main johnny in this game and i have a lot of fun. But im suffering his faults in hi level all the time: the forceballs missing on block, not a GOOD mid and his lame KB requirements.
Btw im hiving a chance to showtropper and his positive things:
-unbreackable combos
- the +17 after F3 on hit reset
-the KB glasses

Im really enjoy this perks, the KB glasses combo is like a x factor (umvc3) or sparking in DBFZ...this combo really put on match again and Johnny still got his FB later.
The say cheese KB is kinda hard because his recovery frames are insane. Only can use it in trade whit proyectiles or if the round is already lost (example in this match whith erron black)
The “50/50” reset after the plus hits on F3 works good and it a good mix.
Of course johnny has his faults and he need a good mid (think F2 is a good option) and please the KB requirements...man, i play scorpion to and is insane the KB i conect in compare to johnny.

I share whith you guys my day 1 whit showstrooper... (sorry my rustic english)

 
DrFolmer

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
People can just backdash/walk back to avoid guessing altogether. In fact it's an even safer way of punishing Johnny for advancing after plusframes. Now if Forceballs actually hit people crouchblocking he could actually utilize his good projectile as integral part of a defensive playstyle.

Given Johnny's overall safety and good fundamentals he could work well as a defensive character. Problem is, in matchups where Forceballs are low profiled by crouch blocking opponents it makes his supposedly good zoning so damn ineffective. Why is that? Because it negates chip (and therefore Brass Knuckles) completely. Like, against Liu Kang I like to play very sparingly, hit him with EX forceballs, make him respect the hit advantage, activate knuckles and sit around f3 range and harass him with forceballs dealing tons of chip he has to take because f4 is a real theat. Because crouch blocking makes them eat a whole lot of chip while knuckles are active, some resort to neutral ducking, and on a read this is a fullcombo. I also do this a lot against Scorpion because most cant reaction tp this close to the opponent.

It's not really the fact that we miss out on +6 that bothers me, it's the fact that forceballs can just be avoided altogether by crouch blocking for so many characters making a keepaway approach really poopy tbh. Imagine if people could just crouch block Sub's iceballs and not take chip due to them whiffing. That makes the whole 'careful approach' thing against Sub-Zero less of a thing - a thing that his kit relies somewhat on due to his buttons being somewhat slow like ours. Sonya would be much more easy to approach if you could just crouch block and cause rings to whiff. You get the idea

On the topic of +6, this is our way of getting a 'fast mid'. Problem is, whenever it's an option it's just not guaranteed. Why is Jacquis b34 such a big deal? Because she has a guaranteed strike/throw mixup everytime it connects (which is also why it's a gapped string). At an intermediate level people just eat f3/f4's or simply block them. At a higher level people either s1 full combo it or simpl whiff punish it on a walkback. This is of course not applicable in the corner.

I just want his damn projectile to be consistent regardless of plusframes because it's the main use of Brass Knuckles tbh. The frames on his projectile is fucking irrelevant if people dont have to neutral duck it.
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
DrFolmer said:
People can just backdash/walk back to avoid guessing altogether. In fact it's an even safer way of punishing Johnny for advancing after plusframes. Now if Forceballs actually hit people crouchblocking he could actually utilize his good projectile as integral part of a defensive playstyle.

Given Johnny's overall safety and good fundamentals he could work well as a defensive character. Problem is, in matchups where Forceballs are low profiled by crouch blocking opponents it makes his supposedly good zoning so damn ineffective. Why is that? Because it negates chip (and therefore Brass Knuckles) completely. Like, against Liu Kang I like to play very sparingly, hit him with EX forceballs, make him respect the hit advantage, activate knuckles and sit around f3 range and harass him with forceballs dealing tons of chip he has to take because f4 is a real theat. Because crouch blocking makes them eat a whole lot of chip while knuckles are active, some resort to neutral ducking, and on a read this is a fullcombo. I also do this a lot against Scorpion because most cant reaction tp this close to the opponent.

It's not really the fact that we miss out on +6 that bothers me, it's the fact that forceballs can just be avoided altogether by crouch blocking for so many characters making a keepaway approach really poopy tbh. Imagine if people could just crouch block Sub's iceballs and not take chip due to them whiffing. That makes the whole 'careful approach' thing against Sub-Zero less of a thing - a thing that his kit relies somewhat on due to his buttons being somewhat slow like ours. Sonya would be much more easy to approach if you could just crouch block and cause rings to whiff. You get the idea

On the topic of +6, this is our way of getting a 'fast mid'. Problem is, whenever it's an option it's just not guaranteed. Why is Jacquis b34 such a big deal? Because she has a guaranteed strike/throw mixup everytime it connects (which is also why it's a gapped string). At an intermediate level people just eat f3/f4's or simply block them. At a higher level people either s1 full combo it or simpl whiff punish it on a walkback. This is of course not applicable in the corner.

I just want his damn projectile to be consistent regardless of plusframes because it's the main use of Brass Knuckles tbh. The frames on his projectile is fucking irrelevant if people dont have to neutral duck it.
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Too bad I'm not smart enough to hack this site and replace every single post in this thread with this one.

I can't believe how on point and perfect it is, finally.

Congrats!

Now, NRS, how about FIXING THOSE DAMN FORCEBALLS ITS LIKE 5 MINUTES OF WORK FFS
 
ReoSpeedwagon

ReoSpeedwagon

Noob
How have you guys been dealing with fast far advancing moves like Baraka's that make it hard to walk back? I feel like I'm at their mercy trying to d4 as they come in but then I whiff and get schmacked.

On another note, @DeftMonk what's the input for Banana Airstrike?
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Usually if it's a decent mid with no upward NRS style hitbox I usually risk a neutral jump to catch them advancing on the way down, and it usually works.
But if the mid reaches upward and you can't jump, then you just have to take it, sorry.

On another note, which is most important.

Today, after I spewed all my rage and foaming at the mouth after the patch, because the forceballs whiff, I noticed something very nice when I was sparring with my friend who mains Frost.

After he completely vaporized me with that new found 11 frame mid, I noticed that in the corner, our forceballs do not whiff on block on female hitboxes.

Since I literally engraved it into my soul not to use that move against females I never tried it before, but I had the release check on by mistake and forceball came out instead of shadow kick.

Which means that in the corner we finally have a complete character. Nevertheless I tried to get him in the corner more often and indeed we finally have a mindgame and a gameplan there. Of course, +3 wasn't a match for his 11 frame mid as I still couldn't use any mid, but at least I got the fear of d4 going and could get in throws, and another f344 forceball and so on. You know, the way the character SHOULD WORK anywhere on the screen.

So yay ^__^
 
T

Tundra81

Noob
I've had a long weekend, exhausted, hung over and driving atm so maybe I'm not reading this correctly because FB's still whiff on Cassie in the corner. Is this a Frost thing? Do I need to go back to bed?
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Hmm, I have to test when I get home, I got some matches only vs Frost today in the lunch break, didn't get to test all other female horrors.

But if it still whiffs on some in the corner (especially on Cassie) then FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
 
T

Tundra81

Noob
I don't necessarily want to give Cage a break but I definitely need to pick up a secondary to keep the game fresh, it's getting a little stagnant for me. I had every intention of making it to God in S2 but I currently have less than 10 matches total, lol. Other than this Race Against Time bull shit and labbing Showstopper I haven't really touched this game at all in like 2-3 weeks +.

I've been stuck in a secondary crisis since week 2 of the game, every character I pick up I drop within a day or 2 due to how boring they are. Maybe I just need to buckle down and stick with someone for awhile and hopefully they'll click.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Tundra81 said:
I don't necessarily want to give Cage a break but I definitely need to pick up a secondary to keep the game fresh, it's getting a little stagnant for me. I had every intention of making it to God in S2 but I currently have less than 10 matches total, lol. Other than this Race Against Time bull shit and labbing Showstopper I haven't really touched this game at all in like 2-3 weeks +.

I've been stuck in a secondary crisis since week 2 of the game, every character I pick up I drop within a day or 2 due to how boring they are. Maybe I just need to buckle down and stick with someone for awhile and hopefully they'll click.
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I had this same problem. That's why I went with New Era instead of Infinite Warden with Geras. You don't see it much, it has setups, and command grabs are so much fun to me. It's not as brain dead as Infinite Warden. Maybe what you need to do, now that some bad variations have been buffed, is try one. Play something barely anyone plays. For instance, I'm willing to bet that Erron Black's Barking Irons variation has some sneaky shit that people are sleeping on.
 
heildan

heildan

NANI?!
I've been messing with some stuff at the training mode which got me wondering about the possibilities of a comboable nutpunch KB. I think it should've been implemented as it seems balanced (but needs tweaks).

Some things to be taken into consideration:

- Its damage is on par with the rest of the cast KBs;

- Costs one bar, about 38% damage midscreen and 47% in the corner from almost any starter, roughly 9% more damage;

- Totally breakable;

- Would make Shock Jock a lot better, but to maintain balance they would probably have to adjust his mimetime KB scale a bit or leave its requirement as it is;

- Would compensate the lack of damage this character suffers while maintaining his actual gameplan.

- Fatalblow cancelling strings into it don't make it broken because of the damage scale.

Thoughts?

 
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Dean

Dean

On The Grind
Johnny Cage is THE BEST AROUND, NOTHINGS EVER GONNA KEEP HIM DOWN!!!

....

Amerika

Also, this was my fault. I put out the wrong frequency pre-release of this game. The universe picked up on it and believed that NRS hates every character I ever care about. So, I am sorry to all that main this character. I accept responsibility for this.

Good Day.
 
R

Rodney Quillz

Noob
M.D. said:
I only have two problems.

First, forceballs must be fixed as they are bugged. If I hear any more arguments about plus frames said in a manner like "this char is already good stop complaining" as an answer to forceballs whiffing I'm going to flip.

Second, I can't stand the out of context blatant exaggeration of his plus frames. Every post saying this take it out of context and make it sound that it's mkx all over again. This makes people who have vietnam flashbacks of alist prepatch yell out clueless crap.

The truth is his plus frames balance out his CRAPPY STARTUP BUTTONS in a manner that he can actually be played in a balanced way.

He does NOT JAIL ANYONE into anything on block, the opponent always has a way out.
And on hit, he jails from pokes LIKE 99% OF THE CAST.

FIX THOSE DAMN FORCEBALLS
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To be honest I don’t think they can fix them.

Female hit boxes/small hitbox characters having problems with hit detection have been an issue in like the past 4 games.

It’s not just cage that suffers, other characters can’t get certain pressure strings going either or their optimal combos because of this issue.

If they can’t fix these issues they should balance them out by giving these characters a drastic health decrease.

I don’t think anyone would be whining about being smothered by Jacqui or zoned by Cetrion and mixed up by Sonya if you could kill them in 2 combos.
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Rodney Quillz said:
To be honest I don’t think they can fix them.

Female hit boxes/small hitbox characters having problems with hit detection have been an issue in like the past 4 games.

It’s not just cage that suffers, other characters can’t get certain pressure strings going either or their optimal combos because of this issue.

If they can’t fix these issues they should balance them out by giving these characters a drastic health decrease.

I don’t think anyone would be whining about being smothered by Jacqui or zoned by Cetrion and mixed up by Sonya if you could kill them in 2 combos.
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They should just copypaste the hitbox from kitana fans to forceballs and thats it. Her amplified fans are both highs and work perfectly.

Seriously doubt unreal engine can't support this in 5 minutes of work.
 
lionheart21

lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
M.D. said:
They should just copypaste the hitbox from kitana fans to forceballs and thats it. Her amplified fans are both highs and work perfectly.

Seriously doubt unreal engine can't support this in 5 minutes of work.
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I don't know the first thing about game development, but if it really is that easy to fix, then there's really no defending them being that lazy.
 
F

Frank Reed

Noob
lionheart21 said:
I don't know the first thing about game development, but if it really is that easy to fix, then there's really no defending them being that lazy.
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I’m guessing it is for better or worse a design decision. And it could not just be a balance decision but an aesthetic choice as well. If the balls were to hit certain characters while they are blocking, it could look wonky. It would be hard to lower them without changing his hand animation and making the balls bigger might look strange.

I’m interested if they would ever consider changing character health based on matchups. If Johnny has a 3-7 matchup, maybe they could alter health just when Johnny fights that character. I also think it would be interesting for them to change when specific characters gain access to fatal blow. For certain characters it could be 25% health, others maybe it is 30%. They have a lot of options for balance if they so choose.
 
H

Hallucinogen

Noob
Honestly who cares what it takes, if their game mechanic/principle is that a high attack catch crouch block opponent. Then that is it, by their own rules. And ppl start saying maybe it's not a bug, then that's a very bad inconsistency which givss the franchise really bad rep.
 
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