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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Maybe Kitana and still maybe. It's one thing to downplay , this is straight lying.
I can't believe I actually have to do videos for this:

First in the corner:

I covered both cases, when 1 whiffs and when 1 hits, because it has diferent spacings.
As you can see at the end of the video, if you block the 1, b2 WHIFFS. If you don't, b2 hits.

I tried to poke with d3 and d4 which are both 9 and failed, to prove it's as close to frame perfect as possible.
If I would have done it with a gap they would have at least traded, which they're not in this case.

Then, as you can see, d1 pokes him out of it in both cases every time.


Second, midscreen:

Reversal backdash pisses on his fastest mid after +6, and also d1.

I also tried with d3 and d4 so you can see it's frame perfect.

In conclusion, AGAIN, this +6 is not MKX level, is not Jacqui level, and has NOTHING guaranteed.
The only thing you get is a guess, if they poke and you walkback b3, or do your mid.

Which is most definitively NOT something to parade about that cage is god tier while people are asking for forceball fixes or try to get their character fixed.
 

Error404

Noob
I can't believe I actually have to do videos for this:

First in the corner:

I covered both cases, when 1 whiffs and when 1 hits, because it has diferent spacings.
As you can see at the end of the video, if you block the 1, b2 WHIFFS. If you don't, b2 hits.

I tried to poke with d3 and d4 which are both 9 and failed, to prove it's as close to frame perfect as possible.
If I would have done it with a gap they would have at least traded, which they're not in this case.

Then, as you can see, d1 pokes him out of it in both cases every time.


Second, midscreen:

Reversal backdash pisses on his fastest mid after +6, and also d1.

I also tried with d3 and d4 so you can see it's frame perfect.

In conclusion, AGAIN, this +6 is not MKX level, is not Jacqui level, and has NOTHING guaranteed.
The only thing you get is a guess, if they poke and you walkback b3, or do your mid.

Which is most definitively NOT something to parade about that cage is god tier while people are asking for forceball fixes or try to get their character fixed.
Yeah , you showed my point b2 beats d1 in the corner. Midscreen I don't bother.
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
No you proved your point and someone must have went crying to him saying you said his name.
I'm done with this fucking character forum where were some of these posters the last 3 months.
There are some posters here that I disagree with but I respect them, but these last 3 guys have so much arrogance
You wanna shut the fuck up there, homie?
 

Error404

Noob
You either press d1 right away , it doesn't reach and gets whiff punished , or you have to block and wait. Longer d1 will sometimes barely win if you press right away. In any case its worst case for us a d1 and best case a free launcher
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
His impatience with people makes him SEEM like one though, as soon as someone says something he feels is false or he disagrees with he seems to jump straight into a “holier than thou” attitude.


If you are trying to explain something to someone and they don’t get it or they aren’t trying to hear it, then let it be, I don’t see the reason to start trashing the person like a 15 year old COD player.

Oak will drop some gems on people but they don’t really try to comprehend what he’s saying because he’s also calling them a scrub and telling them they are bad at the game at the same time.
MANY people on this site argue with advice. Ive apologized publically and privately for being rude to members who didnt deserve the harshness I convey, so please, keep my name off your posts unless youre speaking to me.
 
MANY people on this site argue with advice. Ive apologized publically and privately for being rude to members who didnt deserve the harshness I convey, so please, keep my name off your posts unless youre speaking to me.
What are you getting offended for?

All I was saying was that you are abrasive and you are proving that point I even stated I wasn’t talking shit but that’s exactly how you are taking it.
 

DeftMonk

Noob
You just proved his point
I don't think he cares. Friendly forums are super dope but not as dope as informative ones. I would pay a subscription to this site if the players were all lab rats and we shared tech. Even if they were being complete asshats(might end up with some beef who knows thats always fun haha). Theres really no need to have the amount of whining that goes on here on a regular basis...if your having problems with a certain MU why don't you guys just try and say something like : "x char is giving me trouble...I always get hit by x crushing blow and hes countering my y offense with z move....anyonne got an answer?" Sure would be way more dope than what this almost 100 page thread is full of.
edit:to be clear im not saying being rude is good im just saying I'd rather have a rude poster thats posting useful tech and advice rather than a super friendly guy just whining all the time. Would be a welcome change.
 
I don't think he cares. Friendly forums are super dope but not as dope as informative ones. I would pay a subscription to this site if the players were all lab rats and we shared tech. Even if they were being complete asshats(might end up with some beef who knows thats always fun haha). Theres really no need to have the amount of whining that goes on here on a regular basis...if your having problems with a certain MU why don't you guys just try and say something like : "x char is giving me trouble...I always get hit by x crushing blow and hes countering my y offense with z move....anyonne got an answer?" Sure would be way more dope than what this almost 100 page thread is full of.
edit:to be clear im not saying being rude is good im just saying I'd rather have a rude poster thats posting useful tech and advice rather than a super friendly guy just whining all the time. Would be a welcome change.
both are not necessary, sometimes we try to explain things to people and they are stubborn and we get frustrated, I get that, sometimes we lose and get frustrated and want to vent, but it doesn’t need to get to the point of shameless name calling lol.

Oak, you trying to turn this into something it’s not homie, you came in here and challenged me on some grudge match shit when I’m not even on that with you, I’m down to play some sets with you though.

If you got a real problem with me or what I said PM me so we stop cluttering up this forum, I’m leaving the wrestlemania shit to hellbringer and Deathstroke.
 

DeftMonk

Noob
So the best johnny MAIN is a liar then, or it actually didn't work against every character as it does now.
Edit- dont bother replying back im done with the arrogant posters here
Your right btw. I didn't watch this since youtube is blocked in this country but I just went to check... My muscle memory does 12 after f4 or f3 on hit but 244 after d1 I just thought I remembered trying 12 but as I just tried it, it doesn't work on the build I am using. Not gonna lie my d1 game is pretty much like this: d1 hits i go for 244 to hitconfirm or another d1 into np. D1 nutpunch until the cows come home bro. :rolleyes:
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I mean I don’t like the attitudes because they are not needed but as far as I know qwark attends tourneys and is probably involved with the inner circle some what, he knows he shit but comes off as smarmy so people tend to ignore the knowledge he drops and tend to focus more on his attitude.

Oak is similar in this regard(the irony of him and qwark not really liking each other is hilarious)

I think MagicMan is a legit troll though.
The reason I come off as snarky is because this site is pure entertainment in how wrong and "hardcore casual" 70% of character forums are, even my own. The whining and straight up misinformation is absolutely ridiculous, and dropping in to say "nah it aint like that, stay free" in a couple of subforums every couple days is too much entertainment, especially when the posters are so out of touch with reality.

Especially because everyone is having a meltdown with how this game is returning to very simple footsies, and the people that complain are constantly losing their shit 24-7 and holding grudges for months over a character instead of... actually switching and playing someone who does the things they enjoy doing well?

But hey, if you want non-snarky knowledge, here's some.

JC is a very honest footsie based character. He plays the footsies and movement portion pretty well. Some character he does bad against because he's not as effective in footsies as they are, and his forceballs whiff. Those were nerfed in this patch. Rejoice.

His D4 leads into his best strings. Those strings are how you open people up. His B34 is a godlike low that reaches very far and is hitconfirmable into full combo. You know why that string is so good? Because it's a very long range low, catching people walking back. A lot of JCs frametraps involve the opponent having their movement restricted because of that string, which is why they stand still or press buttons, both of which you can take advantage of and punish.

This is just an outline on how good B34 is, without even going into his + frames, other buttons, baits, character specific situations or interactions.

His projectile is very good. Can legit counterzone some chars, throw it as a quick check in footsies, frametrap with it, etc. Frametrapping comes last. Vs chars that have to take the forceballs, cage is + off of nearly everything he does, while a bunch of chars end up point blank on block. Cage is like a different version of cassie in this aspect, where she has fast buttons and HAD a 0 frame ex shadow kick to continue her spacing game with, he has slower buttons and + on block, for a similar situation. Off of certain strings or forceball situations, the most optimal way to get out of his range is backdashing for some characters, and you can forceball that as well.

The same comes off of his + on block strings that you jail from D4 or take advantage of them respecting B34 to do them, which essentially is a loop of his pressure. The char is made to contest you in footsies, check you with a good projectile, make you want to squirm and punish you for it.

Or you could look at other, more straightforward and easier chars, and complain. But to say that JC is a bad character, his buttons are shit and he can't play footsies? Only someone who can't do that could possibly project that onto this kind of moveset.

And I'm not in an inner circle or anything, just have experience over a variety of years and fighting games, which you or anyone else can do too, as well as having Nikolas be my offline/online training partner. Here is a timestamp of how he plays, and how you should be looking to play the character for reference.

 
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Lmao this thread is hilarious man
Hilariously frustrating, I feel like there are issues with this character, but then again I win more than I lose with him. Kombat league I usually break even with him. Even tho I feel like I’m doing everything I’m suppose to do with the MUs. He’s mid tier. I am fine with this. I am happy to see other character choices besides top tier braindeads after playing more of online after patch
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Could have done without the false arrogance and elitist jibber jabber tbh.

Felt like I was reading a post from Oak/MagicMan.

Play the character.

Seeing is believing right?

Show everyone that their bad! That they have shitty “neutral.”
Even if I played the character, which is a terrible argument btw, people wouldn't stop complaining. People complain because of their own biases and inabilities, not based on char performance. Better players than me play your char and still you have people whining.

But, not to worry, I play a worse character. One who until 2 days ago couldn't do anything other than 7% or a command grab 50-50 to people pressing buttons after pokes 24-7 and couldn't jail shit, and has no + frames to save his life.
 
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D

Deleted member 35141

Guest
Lets try to turn this thread around lol partly do to my frustration .
I dont get to play in locals and online do to work and family I dont get to play as much as id like.

Am I the best johnny player? no but I have a decent player record and my season 1 KL record was pretty good at 54-29 and 10 points from grandmaster in very limited time. Season 2 I havent play much as im tired of awful ping.

I want to get better and my main issue is losing to gimmicks for example I probably lost 3 sets to lao before I realized tele can be d1 or d2 full combo punished.
Also tend to lose to jump ins as my anti airs are very inconsistent.
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
I played Johnny all the way up to God last season in KL. This season I’m going no where in Demi god. I’m not pro level but I like to think I’m a bit better than most...I’m ok with saying Johnny has issues, especially playing Geras as my secondary. There is zero basis for people to say Cage is good. He’s not. I busted my fucking ass to get to God. It was exhausting. This season I can’t even muster up the heart to keep going.

Enough is enough. Cage is outclassed in this game, but not Sheeva in MK9 bad. The tiers are tighter in this game and Cage can compete, but I’m never going to say he’s viable at the highest levels. I’ve taken him this far and I think I might be done. Im bored and frustrated. +6 means so much less than people think. it works sometimes, but...meh.

Johnny is ok. Can we just stop the bitching. It’s so fucking exhausting.
 
D

Deleted member 35141

Guest
I played Johnny all the way up to God last season in KL. This season I’m going no where in Demi god. I’m not pro level but I like to think I’m a bit better than most...I’m ok with saying Johnny has issues, especially playing Geras as my secondary. There is zero basis for people to say Cage is good. He’s not. I busted my fucking ass to get to God. It was exhausting. This season I can’t even muster up the heart to keep going.

Enough is enough. Cage is outclassed in this game, but not Sheeva in MK9 bad. The tiers are tighter in this game and Cage can compete, but I’m never going to say he’s viable at the highest levels. I’ve taken him this far and I think I might be done. Im bored and frustrated. +6 means so much less than people think. it works sometimes, but...meh.

Johnny is ok. Can we just stop the bitching. It’s so fucking exhausting.
I play sub on the side and he kind of shines a light on johnnys issues. I honestly had to stop KL it was giving me such a bad attitude with the awful ping would effect the other aspects of my day.
In MK I tend to main low tier for some reason in mkx it was kenjitsu kenshi, I didnt really understand johnny gameplan until too late. Mk9 it was stryker and johnny until broken kenshi came out. While in injustice 2 I played green arrow and redhood and never had issues.
I really miss playing johnny and kenshi as they both had completely different playstyles
 

DeftMonk

Noob
I play sub on the side and he kind of shines a light on johnnys issues. I honestly had to stop KL it was giving me such a bad attitude with the awful ping would effect the other aspects of my day.
In MK I tend to main low tier for some reason in mkx it was kenjitsu kenshi, I didnt really understand johnny gameplan until too late. Mk9 it was stryker and johnny until broken kenshi came out. While in injustice 2 I played green arrow and redhood and never had issues.
I really miss playing johnny and kenshi as they both had completely different playstyles
Hey bro I just read your previous post. Funny thing is only 2 chars I fool with at all are lao and johnny. (with the occassional liu if some top tier is bagging lol) Like you said I would def reccomend d1 vs Lao's tp as you can float combo it every single time with d1 121. I had the same issue with anti airs then I started training like this for about 15 min a day helped a shitload: Save ur reset distance to right about jump distance then save 4 motions to ur ai dash grab, jump kick, advancing mid, or wtfever then hit random playback. Try to respond accordingly...I highly reccomend leveling up ur AA cuz johnnys AA game is Stier.

For me honestly I know my weak point is getting off the ground. I usually commit to a WU method instead of watching my opponent and responding like above excercise teaches you to do (bad habit I know). I wish there was like a reset :ur on the ground: option to train this out haha. Leads to me getting lit up a lot. Chars I have a lot of issues with are Jacqui and Skarlet. I need to lab out skarlet but I dont run into her that much.

I just relocated to work in asia so I spend like 80% of my time with this game in the lab since I can't even communicate with anyone I play against. My KL experience here goes like this: Like up until a week ago I was struggling my ass off trying to get out of master since I played same 10-12 people all day who all are beast as hell character specialists with names that look like a random number of square blocks (assuming korean,chinese or japanese characters that my USA version of the game can't read). Then I noticed if I log in past like 2 am (not hard for me since I get off work at 2 as a DJ) I get 2-3 bar connections vs russians and austrailians who were master and grand master with like 19% chance to beat me lol. If I could speak to those damn block character dudes I would love to lvl up vs them but alas block character communication barrier how you trouble me so. If any of you guys have a pocket skarlet I would love to hear how to approach that MU better.
 
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M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
I only have two problems.

First, forceballs must be fixed as they are bugged. If I hear any more arguments about plus frames said in a manner like "this char is already good stop complaining" as an answer to forceballs whiffing I'm going to flip.

Second, I can't stand the out of context blatant exaggeration of his plus frames. Every post saying this take it out of context and make it sound that it's mkx all over again. This makes people who have vietnam flashbacks of alist prepatch yell out clueless crap.

The truth is his plus frames balance out his CRAPPY STARTUP BUTTONS in a manner that he can actually be played in a balanced way.

He does NOT JAIL ANYONE into anything on block, the opponent always has a way out.
And on hit, he jails from pokes LIKE 99% OF THE CAST.

FIX THOSE DAMN FORCEBALLS