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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

That's what they said at MKX, remember this video?


Literally nobody cared about the hitbox issues then and I'd be baffled if they do now.
I remember that, the player who made the video is a friend of mine in the French community and I helped him to make it. We labbed the entire roster for 4-5 hours and we tried to find every possible whiffing issue with Johnny. This is not an exhaustive list, even after posting the video we discovered new whiffing issues.
MK11 Johnny is in a slightly better state than in MKX when it comes to whiffing issues, but I think he is still the character that suffers the most from them (with Kano Dirtbag)
 
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LarSanity

My sword thanks you
Been practicing with the new easy KB in practice and now im kind of annoyed.

His mime time KB with 1 bar leads to 44 % easy and his nutpunch KB 30% easy. It sucks being a johnny main and this mechanic being unused.

I know this has all been said before but actually seeing the damage it can do makes me even more salty.
 

Jbog

Noob
Played a bunch of sets today have played jc since mk1 and he sucks on this game end of story! Hitboxes kill him plus 244 string is (soap bar in my mouth) and unreliable on pad screw this tired of no tools
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
30% off NP KB? He kinda gets pretty much the same from his to-go starters anyway LOL. The things you can usually punish with NP can also be punished with 34 for even bigger damage. It's just kinda useless in a sense as you have to spend a bar to activate it but you deal more with regular BNB's anyway.

I think some neat features for his KB could be:

- Make the naked NP deal around 180 damage. Give Johnny the option to launch at the cost of a bar to get his usual bnb. If he doesnt it should be considerably more plus (I'm not talking guaranteed jump ins here LOL) giving him some guaranteed pressure.

- I think Shadow Kick could be interesting in terms of KB mechanics. Most other characters get KB's on their advancing specials, and it's such a iconic move. I would have given him a KB to connect with it from max range, kinda like Jacqui. Or maybe connect 3 Shadowkicks to unlock.

- Remove the Extended Mime Time requirement and just switch it to regular Mime Time. The KB itself is very potent but is essentially impossible to apply in a real setting.

- for Showstopper I think maybe a counter feature could be implemented similarly to Liu Kang's bicycle kicks. Whiffing this move purposely is suicide when they have guys like Geras taking a third of your lifebar trying to stack it up. Or perhaps make it apply on Kounter Hit - I've been in plenty situations where I just go ham and cancel into this move after b34 and f344 on block to hit them.

- For Tear Jerker, keep the string as is and let it be the full string on punish/kounter, or speed up the 3' part. I've been doing some setups where I end combos prematurely and do f43 and it actually catches people - usually because they misstime wakeup jabs, d2 way too early or are just plain idiots. This could be a little more legit with that change as well as making it more likely to catch people attempting to punish f4 on whiff.
 

LarSanity

My sword thanks you
30% off NP KB? He kinda gets pretty much the same from his to-go starters anyway LOL. The things you can usually punish with NP can also be punished with 34 for even bigger damage. It's just kinda useless in a sense as you have to spend a bar to activate it but you deal more with regular BNB's anyway.

I think some neat features for his KB could be:

- Make the naked NP deal around 180 damage. Give Johnny the option to launch at the cost of a bar to get his usual bnb. If he doesnt it should be considerably more plus (I'm not talking guaranteed jump ins here LOL) giving him some guaranteed pressure.

- I think Shadow Kick could be interesting in terms of KB mechanics. Most other characters get KB's on their advancing specials, and it's such a iconic move. I would have given him a KB to connect with it from max range, kinda like Jacqui. Or maybe connect 3 Shadowkicks to unlock.

- Remove the Extended Mime Time requirement and just switch it to regular Mime Time. The KB itself is very potent but is essentially impossible to apply in a real setting.

- for Showstopper I think maybe a counter feature could be implemented similarly to Liu Kang's bicycle kicks. Whiffing this move purposely is suicide when they have guys like Geras taking a third of your lifebar trying to stack it up. Or perhaps make it apply on Kounter Hit - I've been in plenty situations where I just go ham and cancel into this move after b34 and f344 on block to hit them.

- For Tear Jerker, keep the string as is and let it be the full string on punish/kounter, or speed up the 3' part. I've been doing some setups where I end combos prematurely and do f43 and it actually catches people - usually because they misstime wakeup jabs, d2 way too early or are just plain idiots. This could be a little more legit with that change as well as making it more likely to catch people attempting to punish f4 on whiff.
Yea shit the NP KB I forgot it took a bar, so its even worse lol.

The mime time requirement you suggested would be great or make it exactly like liu kangs.

The f43 string wouldnt be so bad if it didnt make you hop over a blocking opponent cause on block its plus, without the whiffing it could be a great pressure string that could also be a KB.
 

Tundra81

This is re-goddamned-diculous
Premium Supporter
I know it didn't in the video but I feel like they whiff on Jade but I'm not 100% positive, I'll have to test it tonight.
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
Maybe this is old news, but in the corner you can actually combo off 121 into amplified Forceballs. It's a bit of a tight window but you can sneak a s2 into 121 np. Going straight for 121 is much more consistent though. You can also do two s1's before 121. I know 121 whiffs on some people crouch blocking, but in the matchups the string works it's a really powerful thing after a jump-in. Whereas f344 into Forceballs just gives you plusframes, 121 provides a big win-win situation as you're looking at plus frames or an actual decent combo into a restand.

I've noticed people quite often get clipped by the last hit in the string, and sometimes I play super risky and cancel into NP but that can hurt me pretty bad if they are patient. Using 121 instead provides a sort of OS where the impatient player gets clipped for a combo and the patient player will have to sit tight for a little more while I utilize my plusframes.
 

Error404

Noob
Maybe this is old news, but in the corner you can actually combo off 121 into amplified Forceballs. It's a bit of a tight window but you can sneak a s2 into 121 np. Going straight for 121 is much more consistent though. You can also do two s1's before 121. I know 121 whiffs on some people crouch blocking, but in the matchups the string works it's a really powerful thing after a jump-in. Whereas f344 into Forceballs just gives you plusframes, 121 provides a big win-win situation as you're looking at plus frames or an actual decent combo into a restand.

I've noticed people quite often get clipped by the last hit in the string, and sometimes I play super risky and cancel into NP but that can hurt me pretty bad if they are patient. Using 121 instead provides a sort of OS where the impatient player gets clipped for a combo and the patient player will have to sit tight for a little more while I utilize my plusframes.
You can get S2 twice into 121 ender
 

Error404

Noob
Guys I think we're relying waaay too much on d4->f3. Especially when d4 -> dash , 124 may be a superior option after d4 up close.

F344 can only kinda be staggered after f3 which is -4. Whereas 124 can be staggered after 1 which plus on block and 12 which is 0 on block. Both 1 and 12 are better better options to go into throw .

Not to mention that 124 and f344 leave you in the same situation . The difference being that after 124 you're +6 rather than -2. +6 might not guarentee anything , but it will force your opponent to either press a button immidiately and risk getting whiff punished or hold another block string.

If also been using a lot of 12 , f344 on block after I've conditioned my opponent that I'll do 124. Works pretty well.

Dash , 12 will also give you level 2/3 caged rage on characters that don't have 6f D1s.

TL;DR
up close D4->dash , 124 > d4 ->f344
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Just a small buff suggestion but I think they could keep the spirit of the Say Cheese KB but make it more viable by making it so Johnny only has to whiff it three times and then has access to the KB for the rest of the match. It's a fun idea for a KB but it's just not really worth bothering for it in a lot of matches.
 

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Moderator
Premium Supporter
Guys I think we're relying waaay too much on d4->f3. Especially when d4 -> dash , 124 may be a superior option after d4 up close.

F344 can only kinda be staggered after f3 which is -4. Whereas 124 can be staggered after 1 which plus on block and 12 which is 0 on block. Both 1 and 12 are better better options to go into throw .

Not to mention that 124 and f344 leave you in the same situation . The difference being that after 124 you're +6 rather than -2. +6 might not guarentee anything , but it will force your opponent to either press a button immidiately and risk getting whiff punished or hold another block string.

If also been using a lot of 12 , f344 on block after I've conditioned my opponent that I'll do 124. Works pretty well.

Dash , 12 will also give you level 2/3 caged rage on characters that don't have 6f D1s.

TL;DR
up close D4->dash , 124 > d4 ->f344
The idea of using f3 though is that if your opponent tries to hit a button after d4, you can easily hit confirm into nut punch. 124 is good though, I will definitely try doing that.
 
So for the Johnny mains here who have stuck with him, what are the current setups that you do to throw off the opponent ? I realized that I telegraph myself.. i know all the basic mind game stuff but anything else?