MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

[Mikemetroid]

I'm still holding my opinion strong that all Johnny needs is his KBs to have less rediculous requirements and the universal hitboxes to be more consistent. Nothing else needs to be changed property wise.

 

[lionheart21]

I'm still holding my opinion strong that all Johnny needs is his KBs to have less rediculous requirements and the universal hitboxes to be more consistent. Nothing else needs to be changed property wise.

What about framedata-wise? F4 is too unsafe on block.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

I'm still holding my opinion strong that all Johnny needs is his KBs to have less rediculous requirements and the universal hitboxes to be more consistent. Nothing else needs to be changed property wise.

If his kbs became easier it would make less work of things lol, watching as scorpion presses 2 button kb 300 is annoying.
If they dont fix them I want a faster mid just like the rest of the cast.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Siiiiiiigh...Johnny's D4 goes under Shao Khan's F34 string intermittently. Completely unreliable in a poke war. Good thing Shao isn't great in the rest of the MU.

I know this isnt the only character that steps over it. It just kind of pisses me off.

 

[DrFolmer]

As good as our D4 is, I just kinda sit there like "WTF" when I see Sub and Scorpion throw out D4's. The range is annoying by itself, but I hate how much pushback they have on block. I like to abuse people who do multiple pokes despite being minus with either reversal throws or d4 into f344, but these two guys are SO safe if they want to be. It's just annoying that they can use a d4 and it doesnt matter whether or not it's blocked - they get out of throw mixups anyway due to the pushback. It's like a get out of jail card for free. Sure if they keep doing them we can just f4 their asses. However, if they space it properly so it hits at the furthest range of the normal, they can back away in time to avoid f4. I don't know it's just stupid to have pokes on block work as excellent shimmy tools in my opinion.

I just need to grind more Scorps and Subs to learn their tendencies

 

[SwiftEagle]

As good as our D4 is, I just kinda sit there like "WTF" when I see Sub and Scorpion throw out D4's. The range is annoying by itself, but I hate how much pushback they have on block. I like to abuse people who do multiple pokes despite being minus with either reversal throws or d4 into f344, but these two guys are SO safe if they want to be. It's just annoying that they can use a d4 and it doesnt matter whether or not it's blocked - they get out of throw mixups anyway due to the pushback. It's like a get out of jail card for free. Sure if they keep doing them we can just f4 their asses. However, if they space it properly so it hits at the furthest range of the normal, they can back away in time to avoid f4. I don't know it's just stupid to have pokes on block work as excellent shimmy tools in my opinion.

I just need to grind more Scorps and Subs to learn their tendencies

Scorpion shouldn't be allowed to have 4 teleports. That's what makes him unbalanced. Raiden has teleports where he can appear on either side of you, but it's balanced because he cant hit you afterwards. Noob has a teleport, but it he's forced to hit you with it. Scorpion can teleport on either side of you, or he can amplify it, or simply just hit you once to where you let go of block. His teleports are a mixups game on their own.And he can chain two crushing blows if one hits you. It's ridiculous

 

[DrFolmer]

Scorpion shouldn't be allowed to have 4 teleports. That's what makes him unbalanced. Raiden has teleports where he can appear on either side of you, but it's balanced because he cant hit you afterwards. Noob has a teleport, but it he's forced to hit you with it. Scorpion can teleport on either side of you, or he can amplify it, or simply just hit you once to where you let go of block. His teleports are a mixups game on their own.And he can chain two crushing blows if one hits you. It's ridiculous

Especially the variation where he can cancel. It essentially makes it a 33/33/33 LOL.

 

[Mikemetroid]

What about framedata-wise? F4 is too unsafe on block.

d4 covers almost the same distance and grants you a free f3.

f3 is a dope whiff punisher, so are forceballs.

If you need to punish something with f4, it goes into exnp/whatever. Just have to know when to use both? Shrug.

What do YOU want f4 to be? MK9/MKX f3? Scorpions f3 double kick string? eh

 

[lionheart21]

d4 covers almost the same distance and grants you a free f3.

f3 is a dope whiff punisher, so are forceballs.

If you need to punish something with f4, it goes into exnp/whatever. Just have to know when to use both? Shrug.

What do YOU want f4 to be? MK9/MKX f3? Scorpions f3 double kick string? eh

Just want it to be a bit less negative on block is all.

 

[DarksydeDash]

As someone who plays Kitana, Johnny feels right at home with how she plays.

Lots of staggers and whiff punishing, but with a lack of KB.

 

[Mikemetroid]

Just want it to be a bit less negative on block is all.

I suppose, but it still wouldn't have too much utility vs other strings. Its a hard string to make viable... poorly designed imo.

Also f3 being a mid would be mega @Braindead

 

[lionheart21]

As someone who plays Kitana, Johnny feels right at home with how she plays.

Lots of staggers and whiff punishing, but with a lack of KB.

Pretty much, yeah.

Basically to echo what has been said a lot already: Fix the hitbox issues, make his Krushing Blows easier, and give us a mid that's safe or slightly less negative on block (like F4), and we're cool, we really don't want or need anything else but that. The character is quite solid, and that would help him compete with some of the top-tier characters.

 

[Tundra81]

F3 being a mid would definitely make him pretty busted.

 

[DarksydeDash]

I just hit 9 d4s before this dude blocked.

We found the new meta, bois!

 

[Vastly]

F3 being a mid would definitely make him pretty busted.

I don't think it would be busted at all but I definitely think it would put him in the A tier range. Not at the top of that range but he would be a lot better.

 

[Rip Torn]

PSA:

D3 is Johnny's longest poke, goes just a smidge further than D4. It's also 1 frame slower than D4 and gives less frame advantage on hit.

 

[MrMaxAwesome]

anyone else finding mid/close range forceballs good vs Erron Black? Right outside of his F3 range.
It's doing pretty good for me.

 

[Chad Ironchest]

Despite maining cage and erron I have no idea how the matchup goes. I haven't encountered any good errons online and have only ever seen one decent cage. If anyone else has any matchup knowledge that'd be neat

 

[ismael4790]

F3 being a mid would definitely make him pretty busted.

I think f2 being a mid wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[Wrath0594]

I'm still holding my opinion strong that all Johnny needs is his KBs to have less rediculous requirements and the universal hitboxes to be more consistent. Nothing else needs to be changed property wise.

He’s defending Johnny, get him!

Tryna say my losses are my fault? I don’t think so...

 

[Hara-Killer]

Johnny got 2 KB in a combo photo KB + throw glasses KB and it is HUGE DAMGE but is hard ASF , that FB cancel is tricky

 

[lionheart21]

F3 being a mid would definitely make him pretty busted.

Yeah, I used to think that he needed this to be a mid, but that was because I was still in the mindset of MK9/MKX Johnny.

I think f2 being a mid wouldn't be a bad idea.

That was also one of my wishes as well, though not as much of a high priority as the other issues that we've mentioned.

 

[ReoSpeedwagon]

Johnny got 2 KB in a combo photo KB + throw glasses KB and it is HUGE DAMGE but is hard ASF , that FB cancel is tricky

Yup it's amazing idk why anyone complains about FB when he has that

 

[DaZengie]

I am also on the boat where I think he just need hitbox fixes and better KB. His base move list is fine. F3 as a high is fine. It being a mid might be too strong which is why you use f4 instead. Different button different situation.as for being poked out of stuff, when hitbox issue gets fixed we should see a lot less of that. As a player you also need to regulate the constant D1 or d2. If you keep getting hit by those that means you need to adjust your approach.

The only thing I would actually ask for is to not have amplify nut punch launch that horizontally. If it can launch the same distance as mkx, it would make things hit a bit easier. Amplify NP, dash, b3, dash f4 NP is pretty tight. If the launching doesn't travel as far, doing 1 dash should suffice.

NP amplify dash 121 shadow kick also whiffs sometimes on female hitboxes like Jacqui and Cassie (the 2nd or 3rd hit of the 121 iirc).

 

[DeftMonk]

So I was labbing vs Geras to find holes in his pressure and ended up finding out his b1 or whatever mid starter is super easily punished regardless if he goes for the three punches or the low. Best punish I found for the low is as soon as you block the mid short hop (low goes under) 244 punish. Made me kinda wonder what else can be punished this way? Gonna have to make a list.