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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

I would say the winning is not important. You can win with anyone because there are so many players out there, some new, some don't invest that much time, so you will never have 0 wins and 100000 losses.

The problem is not whether you win or lose, it's the road to the end of the match.

It's a bit demoralizing to watch your opponent just constantly put out 9 frame mids with liu kang and you just have to guess if it's a stagger, low fireball or +6. Sonya players just doing their 50-50s without a single care in the world because hey, who'd punish the overhead in 200 ping?

Sure, you can read them, you can work hard and win. But for me it's not that satisfactory knowing that the opponent was sipping his umbrella drink while I worked my @ss off.
Not disagreeing with any of this.
 
Yes but what if a dev reads the thread and doesn't think he's bad? :))))

Also, I'm watching this vids and it's like everyone is playing another game.

People getting actually hit by b34? What sorcery is this. Every single of my ranked matches I haven't opened anyone with it.
It's so slow that they keep mashing d3 and poke me out of it. Who in the world would wait to see what Cage does?

Also, no d3 spamming NON stop to poke you out of everything?

What is this online you guys play, I want in as well. I don't like mine at all.
B3 4 def opens people up, but you have to play extreme mind games with johnny. Condition with throws, jump in kicks and punches, throw more, make them expect a throw and b 3 4 their uppercut. It does work, but johnny seems to be built around extreme mind games under constant aggression.follow up b3 4 with a jump over punch into throw, or b3 4 into cage rage to build levels, if they try to throw they get struck and you get a free jump in i think. People tend to not block low after a level 3 cage rage more often than not. At first i thought it put an anti block debuff on them. They tend to panic after taking an unblockable to the face. You will miss some reads but try to be random with what youre gonna do. Flippy kick seems to push back a bit to give you some space if they block it. Mime time after b3 4 is also effective for countering their retaliation. If its a high or mid. Johnny seems to be a high risk character in some regards. At least in my experience.
 
I'll definitely do my best to be as complete and as accurate as I can manage the first time around, but there's definitely going to be other tech and strategies that others use that I may not know about, but I guess the more nuanced stuff can be saved for later.

And thanks for the link!
I would gladly welcome it, I love learning new tech. Already putting @Wrath0594's one into good use!
 
Damn you guys have been active today. Finished the crouch block video. Kitana and the man himself seem to be the worst followed by his daughter Cassius Clay. Didn't include Shadow Kick cause it doesn't whiff. f3 doesn't either but I wasn't sure when testing and since uppercut whiffs at point blank against Kitana and JC I wanted to be sure.
 
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FoughtDragon01

Ask me about my Mileena agenda.
Damn you guys have been active today. Finished the crouch block video. Kitana and the man himself seem to be the worst followed by his daughter Cassius Clay. Didn't include Shadow Kick cause it doesn't whiff. f3 doesn't either but I wasn't sure when testing and since uppercut whiffs at point blank against Kitana and JC I wanted to be sure.
Damn, memories of the hitbox issues in Mkx are hitting me like 'Nam flashbacks.
 

kevkopdx

Noob
Damn you guys have been active today. Finished the crouch block video. Kitana and the man himself seem to be the worst followed by his daughter Cassius Clay. Didn't include Shadow Kick cause it doesn't whiff. f3 doesn't either but I wasn't sure when testing and since uppercut whiffs at point blank against Kitana and JC I wanted to be sure.
lol this is worst than I thought, good job! Thanks for making this
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
Looking for aome Jade tips that I am missing, such as what punishes her keep away moves, what i was not doing effectively to counter her etc.. had a hell of a comeback but feel im missing something.
Main thing I’m seeing is not properly punishing jade’s negative strings. B12 and b1 edenian spark should both be punishable by f3. If f3 doesn’t work to punish f21, use shadow kick. A lot of awkwardness in your close game as well. Have a plan for what you’re guna do if d1 hits (do i jail into f4, do i throw? Do I walk back?) and if it’s blocked (mime cancel, block?). You’re also using caged rage awkwardly and too often. If you land a d4, try to jail them with f344. It’s much more threatening, especially in the corner. You can cancel into forceballs for + frames or threaten to dash throw off the next d4.

Her nitro kick is also full combo punishable with 244. If you’re scared of it in neutral because it is fast as fuck, it’s high, so it loses to d4. In general you can crouch her and react to the one overhead. Most of this set seems to just be matchup inexperience.

Work on your corner pressure too. Practice neutral jump kick conversions. Get used to how to beat each wakeup. Shimmy more.
 
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Main thing I’m seeing is not properly punishing jade’s negative strings. B12 and b1 edenian spark should both be punishable by f3. If f3 doesn’t work to punish f21, use shadow kick. A lot of awkwardness in your close game as well. Have a plan for what you’re guna do if d1 hits (do i jail into f4, do i throw? Do I walk back?) and if it’s blocked (mime cancel, block?). You’re also using caged rage awkwardly and too often. If you land a d4, try to jail them with f344. It’s much more threatening, especially in the corner. You can cancel into forceballs for + frames or threaten to dash throw off the next d4.

Her nitro kick is also full combo punishable with 244. If you’re scared of it in neutral because it is fast as fuck, it’s high, so it loses to d4. In general you can crouch her and react to the one overhead. Most of this set seems to just be matchup inexperience.

Work on your corner pressure too. Practice neutral jump kick conversions. Get used to how to beat each wakeup. Shimmy more.
Hell yeah exactly what i was looking for, not sure her moves but ill take her into practice so i can visualize her strings. Yeah i play cage awkward, alnost like a grappler, which for some reason the sporatic nature of has kept me competitive. Dropped a lot of corner stuff here which i now have nailed down to a more consistent and high dmg corner punish. Things like d4 jailing is exactly the kinda stuff i need to know, cause i really have no idea on a mechanics level what works and what doesnt. My logic behind cage rage is the d4 into cage rage if it hits is a free hit or level which i like to use the last level as a round ender or a more often than not follow up with b3 4 which while they panic they tend to not block. High level will most likely expect this and the strat will have to be adjusted. But i agree i tend to throw it out and like to get a good lvl 3 per round or match since people tend to always be blocking low against cage. I think the move is underrated and has some amazing potential. Wish it had a kb associated. Going to try these jails as i figure theyll make me more dangerous cause im definitely not capitalising on their potential. Thanks a lot man!
 
There are some important things to mention here because I think we're overselling some of his stuff too much.

f4 is -6
f44 is -5
Using any of these two will end your turn and make YOU guess an opponent d1/d3/d4 or grab. Using his only advancing mid will 100% give up your turn

f4 forceballs
Whiffs on more than half the cast on block and will get you full combo punished. Not viable at all unless you play against proper hitbox chars which aren't many

d3/d4 best pokes
We must mention here the lack of range on those compared to other chars(scorp,noob). One match against huge mid reaching chars (cassie, scorp,etc) will give you a rude awakening when your d4 is out of range and you will get full comboed

And last, we really have to stop using the "pressure" word with cage in mk11. He doesn't have pressure outside of d4 in f3 grab or string. For anyone who wants to understand what pressure feels like in mk11 I suggest a match against a good jacqui or liu kang.

Not to downplay or anything but I just want to avoid overselling. New players will come here and read that stuff and go online to get vaporized.
Spoken like a champ bro. As far as pressure goes Johnny Is decent and not all that great. Most of his moves aren't safe and his best pressure tools being his forceballs whiff most of the time.

If I want to pressure. I pressure with my axe kick
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
One day I'll have footage for yall. That day is not today.
T_____T
It's not me. PC players are bad, guys... Like... I can't... UGH. Can't add anyone. Can't get a KOTH lobby. I'm going back to story mode. Ranked is... It's makin me sad.

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One day I'll have footage for yall. That day is not today.
T_____T
It's not me. PC players are bad, guys... Like... I can't... UGH. Can't add anyone. Can't get a KOTH lobby. I'm going back to story mode. Ranked is... It's makin me sad.

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Maybe you should use gameplay that isn't a complete stomp in your favor but still shows off Cage being used properly. I'd be able to provide something similar but I'm not too sure I'd be qualified. Regardless I'll be uploading some games soon
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
Maybe you should use gameplay that isn't a complete stomp in your favor but still shows off Cage being used properly. I'd be able to provide something similar but I'm not too sure I'd be qualified. Regardless I'll be uploading some games soon
THAT'S WHAT I WANT, BUT PC PLAYERS WONT GIVE IT TO ME

These are typical of what I get everyday. Except that one day with the Erron's (from now on known as Erronpocalype, May 10th) that I accidentally overwrote with some stupid ai matches from a tower of time for a Skarlet skin.

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THAT'S WHAT I WANT, BUT PC PLAYERS WONT GIVE IT TO ME

These are typical of what I get everyday. Except that one day with the Erron's (from now on known as Erronpocalype, May 10th) that I accidentally overwrote with some stupid ai matches from a tower of time for a Skarlet skin.

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I wonder will take longer. Wrath recording quality matches, or Johnny's hitbox issues being fixed
 
Please for the love of elder gods, NRS! Give Johnny a Pissed Off and Rising Star tournament loadout!
43% for 1 bar is rainbow in my eyes.

I actually disagree with this, i think combo damage should be lower, tends to promote smarter play with footsies. High almost 1 hit kills combos (exageration) have no place in this game imo. I like having a knock down drag out fight, not a high dmg combo that destroys opponents in 30 seconds. Let them fight! I wanna move away from the 9 and xl style comboes. Not get rid of combos, but make dmg only slightly better with an amplify, barely any damage without.
 
Cage is so clutch.

Big thing I see from your vids. If you want to get better stop jumping forward. It's a crutch vs bad players. Watch the best players and count their forward jumps per set and rewatch your own games and do the same. With 7 frame anti airs it isn't smart unless you are doing a knockdown set play etc.

Number 2. Throws. Do the same thing as above. Throws and pressure go hand in hand. You need to enforce frames with pressure and add doubt with throws. Top players are using this to great effect.

Whiff punishes. Again analyze and count how often your attempts are. I see a lot of players so desperately trying to just hit combos and do strings with no purpose.

I left this very generic because I believe fixing these core issues first will let people understand how to get to more specific match ups.
 

LarSanity

Who hired this guy
Its funny watching these "good" players never get d2 out of 121, f3, f2 yet all ive played are mashers and nothing I can do about it, oh wait that's right I have f4 lol.

Not to mention ive watched my whole 121 string whiff on block, f4 amp fireballs whiffing on block. Watching as I get kb punish for 300 plus damage yet here I am maybe doing 290 if I hit with a jump in followed by another high 34 this is very tiresome not having access to half the game.
Nothing worse than getting mixed and guessing correctly blocking perfectly just to get d2 kb.
Call me a downplaying asshole whatever but this is rediculous. I know the next response " just play someone else", guess I'm a glutton for punishment using my fav character since I was 6. Even had a 3 to 1 win ratio as a kenjitsu kenshi player in mix guess I'm getting old now lol.
Sorry for the rant just frustrated honestly.
 
What characters are there that are kinda similar to Johnny? My secondary is erron black, but I'm looking for another one to mess around with. While I'm at it, what secondaries do you guys have?
 
Its funny watching these "good" players never get d2 out of 121, f3, f2 yet all ive played are mashers and nothing I can do about it, oh wait that's right I have f4 lol.

Not to mention ive watched my whole 121 string whiff on block, f4 amp fireballs whiffing on block. Watching as I get kb punish for 300 plus damage yet here I am maybe doing 290 if I hit with a jump in followed by another high 34 this is very tiresome not having access to half the game.
Nothing worse than getting mixed and guessing correctly blocking perfectly just to get d2 kb.
Call me a downplaying asshole whatever but this is rediculous. I know the next response " just play someone else", guess I'm a glutton for punishment using my fav character since I was 6. Even had a 3 to 1 win ratio as a kenjitsu kenshi player in mix guess I'm getting old now lol.
Sorry for the rant just frustrated honestly.
The issues you're experiencing are things we're all going through. You're not downplaying at all. Most of his problems will probably get fixed. The same thing happened in MKX too. In order to get good with Cage for the time being is to keep grinding out matches with him. Abuse F4 and his pokes a lot. His pokes are very good and they tend to piss the other player off into making mistakes. Use Cage more than your other characters too. I found that, in fighting games, it's much better to master 2 or 3 characters than to try and learn the whole cast. It's better for your muscle memory.
Cage is good, and his F3 is amazing, it's just that most of his moves are high for no reason. Meanwhile, certain characters have every tool for every situation and then some. Look back through the pages in this thread, there's plenty of advice.