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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

DaZengie

https://www.facebook.com/groups/MortalKombatATX/
I am also on the boat where I think he just need hitbox fixes and better KB. His base move list is fine. F3 as a high is fine. It being a mid might be too strong which is why you use f4 instead. Different button different situation.as for being poked out of stuff, when hitbox issue gets fixed we should see a lot less of that. As a player you also need to regulate the constant D1 or d2. If you keep getting hit by those that means you need to adjust your approach.

The only thing I would actually ask for is to not have amplify nut punch launch that horizontally. If it can launch the same distance as mkx, it would make things hit a bit easier. Amplify NP, dash, b3, dash f4 NP is pretty tight. If the launching doesn't travel as far, doing 1 dash should suffice.

NP amplify dash 121 shadow kick also whiffs sometimes on female hitboxes like Jacqui and Cassie (the 2nd or 3rd hit of the 121 iirc).
 

DeftMonk

Noob
So I was labbing vs Geras to find holes in his pressure and ended up finding out his b1 or whatever mid starter is super easily punished regardless if he goes for the three punches or the low. Best punish I found for the low is as soon as you block the mid short hop (low goes under) 244 punish. Made me kinda wonder what else can be punished this way? Gonna have to make a list.
 

FoughtDragon01

Ask me about my Mileena agenda.
So on paper, what's Johnny's second tourney variation even supposed to do that Shock Jock can't? The only thing that immediately comes to mind is that Camera gives us access to higher unbreakable damage. Shades being a mid makes it sound like it's supposed to be an alternative zoning tool against crouching enemies, but the range is so piss poor, and the hitbox so jank, you're better off waiting to whiff punish at ranges where it would hit.

What changes could be made that'd make it more viable, or is it a lost cause?
 

DarksydeDash

With my best, I will defeat your best.
So is Shock Jock the better of the two? Both seem good but the nut punch restand seems to good to give up. Plus F4 into AMP fireball is hella good.
 
second variation is dumb, btw I've won the last 2 mirror matches I played , but does anyone else despise Johnny mirror matches? its lulzy with the pokes and throws
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
It's strange but I'm liking Show Stopper's style more. Maybe it's because having a nutpunch with so few frame advantage on hit feels weird.
Also grounded combos in this game are good. However they seriously need to look into the variation because it has lots of problems, like whiffing issues with camera and glasses. Not being able to link the low string into the camera midscreen on hit is hilarious.
 
It's strange but I'm liking Show Stopper's style more. Maybe it's because having a nutpunch with so few frame advantage on hit feels weird.
Also grounded combos in this game are good. However they seriously need to look into the variation because it has lots of problems, like whiffing issues with camera and glasses. Not being able to link the low string into the camera midscreen on hit is hilarious.
exactly why i dont play it btw has anyone messed around with classic cage? the fireballs have 0 hit advantage and hella negative block advantage weird
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
It's not weird, they sold us a bill on the kombat kast.
The arcing projectiles are the most useless thing in the entire game, even more useless than the glasses.

-22 on block, WTF? They literally DON'T hit period.
 

Edlaw

Noob
Reading some of the discussions here has helped me a ton. Sorry I can't really contribute much as I'm just a filthy kasual and still relatively new to the game.
 

FoughtDragon01

Ask me about my Mileena agenda.
I feel if they fix Camera so that it properly links off of his low starter, it'll be a valid replacement for Nut Punch since most of us end BnBs with Shadow Kick or Flip Kick anyway.
 
I think one of the biggest problems with that variation is the krushing blow requirement for the camera. Its just not worth it to whiff the camera three freaking times in a row even for the big combos you get.
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
So on paper, what's Johnny's second tourney variation even supposed to do that Shock Jock can't? The only thing that immediately comes to mind is that Camera gives us access to higher unbreakable damage. Shades being a mid makes it sound like it's supposed to be an alternative zoning tool against crouching enemies, but the range is so piss poor, and the hitbox so jank, you're better off waiting to whiff punish at ranges where it would hit.

What changes could be made that'd make it more viable, or is it a lost cause?
Whiff camera 3 times for an epic krushing blow. It’s basically the Exodia of Mortal
Kombat. Just hope the opponent doesn’t do anything while you’re over there going full paparazzi mode.

The fact that you don’t see the merit in this godlike triple whiff, amp only krushing blow on an 18f startup, 42f recovery, unsafe high tells me you’re a scrub that doesn’t understand the true variation... Camera... Jockey? Camera... Glasses... Hollyw- wait! Starpower! Ha! Starpower, at all. And I pity your poor soul and small dinosaur brain.
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Forgive me if this is known, but did you guys realize Cage can low profile the 1 in Geras' F212 string? I mean, you can block the first his, let go of block while still crouching, and then do 34~full on combo. It's incredibly easy to do....

The implications here are huge. You realize this completely changes the MU right? In fact it should make it heavily in Cage's favor. It allows us to completely own the neutral. What's he going to do? 111? B22? We own those with D4. F11+3 is punishable and F32 leads to nothing.

Sand trap is only useful in range of his DB1F, otherwise full combo punishable, His frog splash is beat by uppercuts and D1.

What's he got left? He'll have to YOLO F2 into his grab or close sand trap. Risky as fuck.
 
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Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
It's strange but I'm liking Show Stopper's style more. Maybe it's because having a nutpunch with so few frame advantage on hit feels weird.
Also grounded combos in this game are good. However they seriously need to look into the variation because it has lots of problems, like whiffing issues with camera and glasses. Not being able to link the low string into the camera midscreen on hit is hilarious.
Nutpunch seems underwhelming at first until you realize how strong a point blank +5 is for mindgames. They have to choose between flipping a koin on our throw (GOD I HOPE WE GET A KB ON THIS) or if they do anything except block, we get a free d4. D4 is + 17 on hit. This means it jails into f3. This opens up a lot. Hitconfirm and loop em. F344 back into neutral. Cancel into amped forceball for + frames. F3 throw. Or just dash throw after d4. It’s surprisngly amazing.

That one dude told us about d4 cancel into nutpunch, so if they block and try to punish, they get blown up, but if you use this setup you’re definitely going to hell.
 
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What are you guys using after EX Forceballs on hit?
I usually just either walk back or do another Forceball but what's the real mind game with that one?
It's only +5 on hit like Nutpunch but the distance doesn't leave the Nutpunch mindgames on the table so it's a different situation.
Trying to approach after that on hit has to be a good read cause you'll get beat out of more pressure.
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
What are you guys using after EX Forceballs on hit?
I usually just either walk back or do another Forceball but what's the real mind game with that one?
It's only +5 on hit like Nutpunch but the distance doesn't leave the Nutpunch mindgames on the table so it's a different situation.
Trying to approach after that on hit has to be a good read cause you'll get beat out of more pressure.
I usually throw out a F4. A Bit of a yolo attack, but whatever. Gotta take risks.
 
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Tundra81

This is re-goddamned-diculous
Premium Supporter
Having a few beers and fucking around with the custom moves tonight for the first time. Jesus, Pissed Off and Rising Star are such good moves! Why NRS, Why!! I'm still a little on the fence about full on custom variations but man if I could have Cage Rage, Pissed Off, and Rising Star in a tourney variation I'd be a happy man.
 
Having a few beers and fucking around with the custom moves tonight for the first time. Jesus, Pissed Off and Rising Star are such good moves! Why NRS, Why!! I'm still a little on the fence about full on custom variations but man if I could have Cage Rage, Pissed Off, and Rising Star in a tourney variation I'd be a happy man.
It seems pretty stupid to take a character's signature move away just because it's a different variation. Even Sub Zero doesn't have his slide.
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
Until yesterday I didn't realize Brass Knuckles increased chip from kicks as well. 4, 3, ex ForceBalls into f4, ex ForceBalls - that ALOTTA DAMAGE bois