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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

If it's not intentional explain why it's not been fixed in how many patches now? When other whiffing has? You think NRS just has it out for poor Johnny Cage. Or, if you could stop downplaying for one literal minute and think... Maybe, just maybe. They agree with me.
Anyways, it's been fun. I actually came to this thread for a legitimate discussion but as soon as anyone mentions absolutely anything critical about JC (the fact that he has insane options with 0 meter, insane safe options is a legitimate critique to be discussed...) its like a fuckin' nervous tick that y'all go straight into immediate downplay mode and refuse to have a honest conversation about how strong JC really is (Top 5, still easily AF).
Enjoy the circlejerk. pce
How about you play the almighty JC and I’ll be Kano FT5 deal?
 

DeftMonk

Noob
If it's not intentional explain why it's not been fixed in how many patches now? When other whiffing has? You think NRS just has it out for poor Johnny Cage. Or, if you could stop downplaying for one literal minute and think... Maybe, just maybe. They agree with me.
Anyways, it's been fun. I actually came to this thread for a legitimate discussion but as soon as anyone mentions absolutely anything critical about JC (the fact that he has insane options with 0 meter, insane safe options is a legitimate critique to be discussed...) its like a fuckin' nervous tick that y'all go straight into immediate downplay mode and refuse to have a honest conversation about how strong JC really is (Top 5, still easily AF).
Enjoy the circlejerk. pce
Bro u are coming around here complaining while saying whiffing issues are intentional balance decisions. I suppose old man Shang has some balance differences from young man Shang as those two skins have different hurtboxes and whiffing issues (since last time I checked anyway).
 
Bro u are coming around here complaining while saying whiffing issues are intentional balance decisions. I suppose old man Shang has some balance differences from young man Shang as those two skins have different hurtboxes and whiffing issues (since last time I checked anyway).
Lol I already blocked this clown the fact that he went dead silent after I threw the challenge out speaks volumes.
 

Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
Last time you checked anyway, huh. Solid basis for a real good point in a discussion. Wonder if that's been fixed.
You ever wonder what the difference between intentional hurtbox design and "whiffing issues" is?
Scorpion's 1,1 used to completely whiff crouch blocking Johnny, but now it doesn't. I wonder if NRS fixing moves that whiff ON Johnny but not his moves whiffing on others, implying that they have looked RIGHT AT Johnny's "whiffing issues" and have chosen not to fix his moves whiffing, speaks to if it's intentional or not? What do you think?

Also, @Rodney Quillz challenging people to FT5s to see who's right about a character has got to be one of the biggest, most hilarious memes on TYM.
 

DeftMonk

Noob
Last time you checked anyway, huh. Solid basis for a real good point in a discussion. Wonder if that's been fixed.
You ever wonder what the difference between intentional hurtbox design and "whiffing issues" is?
Scorpion's 1,1 used to completely whiff crouch blocking Johnny, but now it doesn't. I wonder if NRS fixing moves that whiff ON Johnny but not his moves whiffing on others, implying that they have looked RIGHT AT Johnny's "whiffing issues" and have chosen not to fix his moves whiffing, speaks to if it's intentional or not? What do you think?

Also, @Rodney Quillz challenging people to FT5s to see who's right about a character has got to be one of the biggest, most hilarious memes on TYM.
I had to uninstall the game to make room for some work software recently otherwise I would check. I would be highly surprised if they fixed allll the whiffing issues. Can erron still stand block the third hit of f3444 and the crouch to make the last hit whiff? Etc. I always have greatly enjoyed Nrs games but shit like this is a bit annoying.

It’s one thing if a character has a high or low crush move but I don’t remember the tutorial mentioning ducking as a way to low profile mids.
 
I mean how do you keep the advantage now that fireballs and 124 are null on block?
I mean you just have to be creative. A lot of people will challenge 124 on block now so you can bait whiffs for example. If you play Outtake you can still use it to make space and start zoning again
 

Jbog

Noob
Offline jc still top 5 agree but online hes mid to bottom tier due to imput lag. Sub and scorpion rule online matches.
 

Jbog

Noob
Its been an easy fix since the start. More plus frames on hit more minus on block. But nrs has ignored this annoying meta from the day 1 start. Getting all characters a decent fast mid would totally change this game for the better erasing annoying poke meta game play but they won't fix it. Then they bring in dlc characters(joker for example) that play this exact way with more plus frames on poke leaving on day 1 characters to be trash
 

Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
Joker's pokes don't have more plus frames than the base game characters.
Joker only has like two strings that are safe on block.
If you just want to play the game and it be your turn the entire time just play Kang.
Johnny Cage is top 5 Online and Offline.
 

Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
That's totally false. His d1 is +14 on hit. The majority of the base characters' d1s range from +9 to +12.
Re-checked. Fair enough. Still has only like two strings that are actually safe, and they're barely useful. Compare to Kang, who literally has every single string be safe or PLUS on block except one, but it's mindgame-able... Liu is a base game character and idk about y'all but I'd take safety on -literally- every string over having a couple extra plus frames on pokes?
 
Re-checked. Fair enough. Still has only like two strings that are actually safe, and they're barely useful. Compare to Kang, who literally has every single string be safe or PLUS on block except one, but it's mindgame-able... Liu is a base game character and idk about y'all but I'd take safety on -literally- every string over having a couple extra plus frames on pokes?
Id argue that jokers bouncing head move nullifies that. Yea it can be flawless blocked but being able to delay and hold when want to release it throws off timing, on top of it being neutral reset. Jokers a better version of johnny imo just less outright damage. Granted liu is also insane as well just as much as joker
 

Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
Id argue that jokers bouncing head move nullifies that. Yea it can be flawless blocked but being able to delay and hold when want to release it throws off timing, on top of it being neutral reset. Jokers a better version of johnny imo just less outright damage. Granted liu is also insane as well just as much as joker
Are you talking about his back, forward 4? If so, that's not a guaranteed neutral reset. It's spacing dependent and any Joker player who's decent is going to depend on good spacing not holding it. If you hold it and opponent just holds block, then it's -14 on block lol. I'm not trying to say he's not good, cause he definitely is. But people saying he's so good that he invalidates the rest of the cast is just silly. Most people who are free to Joker just don't lab against him ever. most of the community these days hates labbing.

-14 if you force Joker to hit you with it as it's traveling upwards.
-12 if you flawless block a regular timed one
-24 if you flawless block a traveling upwards one (close range)
 
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Jbog

Noob
Guess I shouldn't have used a character for an example. But my point was still right. I was simply making a statement about the meta I really like this game but hate the glaring holes that are neglected every patch such as poke being the whole casts bests buttons, hirtboxes behind characters. And 4 frame online lag. And totally inconsistent highs on blocking low opponents if they would just clean these up game would be great.
 
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Are you talking about his back, forward 4? If so, that's not a guaranteed neutral reset. It's spacing dependent and any Joker player who's decent is going to depend on good spacing not holding it. If you hold it and opponent just holds block, then it's -14 on block lol. I'm not trying to say he's not good, cause he definitely is. But people saying he's so good that he invalidates the rest of the cast is just silly. Most people who are free to Joker just don't lab against him ever. most of the community these days hates labbing.

-14 if you force Joker to hit you with it as it's traveling upwards.
-12 if you flawless block a regular timed one
-24 if you flawless block a traveling upwards one (close range)
Im not saying he’s the end all be all top tier god character with no flaws. I just think in an online setting with his set ups and back, forward 4 it’s essentially a neutral reset. Unless they constantly abuse that with no regard for any of his other tools. But hes a pain to punish, especially since we’re all online. Definitely has work arounds, but very matchup dependent
 

Dean

On The Grind
I'm confused. I just tried to come back to the game, I missed the good JC timeline apparently, I'm using Shock Jock and he feels awful to me. He feels worse than launch JC. Which I hated launch JC.

I don't understand how he is top 5 still?

He has no mid game. D3 & D4 are getting stuffed by more things than I feel It should be. He has 0 natural OH pressure. Almost all of his strings start with a High. Some of his frame traps from before don't seem to work the same. Whiffing issues still. Plus frames are gone.

I mean... Is the camera variation where It's at or??? What am I missing here? Halp?