MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

[Rodney Quillz]

Bro u are coming around here complaining while saying whiffing issues are intentional balance decisions. I suppose old man Shang has some balance differences from young man Shang as those two skins have different hurtboxes and whiffing issues (since last time I checked anyway).

Lol I already blocked this clown the fact that he went dead silent after I threw the challenge out speaks volumes.

 

[thlityoursloat]

You guys.. still play this game? I don't know what the exact term is, but I get like, reverse-nostalgia thinking about this game.

 

[Pyrosis]

Last time you checked anyway, huh. Solid basis for a real good point in a discussion. Wonder if that's been fixed.
You ever wonder what the difference between intentional hurtbox design and "whiffing issues" is?
Scorpion's 1,1 used to completely whiff crouch blocking Johnny, but now it doesn't. I wonder if NRS fixing moves that whiff ON Johnny but not his moves whiffing on others, implying that they have looked RIGHT AT Johnny's "whiffing issues" and have chosen not to fix his moves whiffing, speaks to if it's intentional or not? What do you think?

Also, @Rodney Quillz challenging people to FT5s to see who's right about a character has got to be one of the biggest, most hilarious memes on TYM.

 

[DeftMonk]

Last time you checked anyway, huh. Solid basis for a real good point in a discussion. Wonder if that's been fixed.
You ever wonder what the difference between intentional hurtbox design and "whiffing issues" is?
Scorpion's 1,1 used to completely whiff crouch blocking Johnny, but now it doesn't. I wonder if NRS fixing moves that whiff ON Johnny but not his moves whiffing on others, implying that they have looked RIGHT AT Johnny's "whiffing issues" and have chosen not to fix his moves whiffing, speaks to if it's intentional or not? What do you think?

Also, @Rodney Quillz challenging people to FT5s to see who's right about a character has got to be one of the biggest, most hilarious memes on TYM.

I had to uninstall the game to make room for some work software recently otherwise I would check. I would be highly surprised if they fixed allll the whiffing issues. Can erron still stand block the third hit of f3444 and the crouch to make the last hit whiff? Etc. I always have greatly enjoyed Nrs games but shit like this is a bit annoying.

It’s one thing if a character has a high or low crush move but I don’t remember the tutorial mentioning ducking as a way to low profile mids.

 

[LMNYHappyDaze]

I’m glad this guy came in here talking nonsense. I missed you guys lol. He brought us all together to laugh him. Beautiful

 

[Owerbart]

so, is JC dead after the last patch?

 

[Wigy]

so, is JC dead after the last patch?

Hes still good. His first variation is total garbage though

 

[Pyrosis]

so, is JC dead after the last patch?

He's top 5.

 

[Owerbart]

I mean how do you keep the advantage now that fireballs and 124 are null on block?

 

[LMNYHappyDaze]

I mean how do you keep the advantage now that fireballs and 124 are null on block?

I mean you just have to be creative. A lot of people will challenge 124 on block now so you can bait whiffs for example. If you play Outtake you can still use it to make space and start zoning again

 

[Jbog]

Offline jc still top 5 agree but online hes mid to bottom tier due to imput lag. Sub and scorpion rule online matches.

 

[Mikemetroid]

I mean how do you keep the advantage now that fireballs and 124 are null on block?

You play like a fucking child and do stupid shit like d1d1d1/d1nutpunch/d1throw

 

[Jbog]

Agree no fun game is boring with the d1 poking meta has been since the start

 

[Jbog]

Its been an easy fix since the start. More plus frames on hit more minus on block. But nrs has ignored this annoying meta from the day 1 start. Getting all characters a decent fast mid would totally change this game for the better erasing annoying poke meta game play but they won't fix it. Then they bring in dlc characters(joker for example) that play this exact way with more plus frames on poke leaving on day 1 characters to be trash

 

[Pyrosis]

Joker's pokes don't have more plus frames than the base game characters.
Joker only has like two strings that are safe on block.
If you just want to play the game and it be your turn the entire time just play Kang.
Johnny Cage is top 5 Online and Offline.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

Joker's pokes don't have more plus frames than the base game characters.

That's totally false. His d1 is +14 on hit. The majority of the base characters' d1s range from +9 to +12.

 

[Pyrosis]

That's totally false. His d1 is +14 on hit. The majority of the base characters' d1s range from +9 to +12.

Re-checked. Fair enough. Still has only like two strings that are actually safe, and they're barely useful. Compare to Kang, who literally has every single string be safe or PLUS on block except one, but it's mindgame-able... Liu is a base game character and idk about y'all but I'd take safety on -literally- every string over having a couple extra plus frames on pokes?

 

[A-List_Failure]

Re-checked. Fair enough. Still has only like two strings that are actually safe, and they're barely useful. Compare to Kang, who literally has every single string be safe or PLUS on block except one, but it's mindgame-able... Liu is a base game character and idk about y'all but I'd take safety on -literally- every string over having a couple extra plus frames on pokes?

Id argue that jokers bouncing head move nullifies that. Yea it can be flawless blocked but being able to delay and hold when want to release it throws off timing, on top of it being neutral reset. Jokers a better version of johnny imo just less outright damage. Granted liu is also insane as well just as much as joker

 

[Pyrosis]

Id argue that jokers bouncing head move nullifies that. Yea it can be flawless blocked but being able to delay and hold when want to release it throws off timing, on top of it being neutral reset. Jokers a better version of johnny imo just less outright damage. Granted liu is also insane as well just as much as joker

Are you talking about his back, forward 4? If so, that's not a guaranteed neutral reset. It's spacing dependent and any Joker player who's decent is going to depend on good spacing not holding it. If you hold it and opponent just holds block, then it's -14 on block lol. I'm not trying to say he's not good, cause he definitely is. But people saying he's so good that he invalidates the rest of the cast is just silly. Most people who are free to Joker just don't lab against him ever. most of the community these days hates labbing.

-14 if you force Joker to hit you with it as it's traveling upwards.
-12 if you flawless block a regular timed one
-24 if you flawless block a traveling upwards one (close range)

 

[Jbog]

Guess I shouldn't have used a character for an example. But my point was still right. I was simply making a statement about the meta I really like this game but hate the glaring holes that are neglected every patch such as poke being the whole casts bests buttons, hirtboxes behind characters. And 4 frame online lag. And totally inconsistent highs on blocking low opponents if they would just clean these up game would be great.

 

[A-List_Failure]

Are you talking about his back, forward 4? If so, that's not a guaranteed neutral reset. It's spacing dependent and any Joker player who's decent is going to depend on good spacing not holding it. If you hold it and opponent just holds block, then it's -14 on block lol. I'm not trying to say he's not good, cause he definitely is. But people saying he's so good that he invalidates the rest of the cast is just silly. Most people who are free to Joker just don't lab against him ever. most of the community these days hates labbing.

-14 if you force Joker to hit you with it as it's traveling upwards.
-12 if you flawless block a regular timed one
-24 if you flawless block a traveling upwards one (close range)

Im not saying he’s the end all be all top tier god character with no flaws. I just think in an online setting with his set ups and back, forward 4 it’s essentially a neutral reset. Unless they constantly abuse that with no regard for any of his other tools. But hes a pain to punish, especially since we’re all online. Definitely has work arounds, but very matchup dependent

 

[Dean]

I'm confused. I just tried to come back to the game, I missed the good JC timeline apparently, I'm using Shock Jock and he feels awful to me. He feels worse than launch JC. Which I hated launch JC.

I don't understand how he is top 5 still?

He has no mid game. D3 & D4 are getting stuffed by more things than I feel It should be. He has 0 natural OH pressure. Almost all of his strings start with a High. Some of his frame traps from before don't seem to work the same. Whiffing issues still. Plus frames are gone.

I mean... Is the camera variation where It's at or??? What am I missing here? Halp?

 

[LMNYHappyDaze]

I'm confused. I just tried to come back to the game, I missed the good JC timeline apparently, I'm using Shock Jock and he feels awful to me. He feels worse than launch JC. Which I hated launch JC.

I don't understand how he is top 5 still?

He has no mid game. D3 & D4 are getting stuffed by more things than I feel It should be. He has 0 natural OH pressure. Almost all of his strings start with a High. Some of his frame traps from before don't seem to work the same. Whiffing issues still. Plus frames are gone.

I mean... Is the camera variation where It's at or??? What am I missing here? Halp?

Shock Jock is the struggle bus. It actually is worse now, then at launch due to his plus frames being nerfed, so don’t go there. Showstopper and Outtake is the wave, which Outtake being arguably his best variation. I still main Showstopper for the sweet sweet damage

 

[Pyrosis]

Time your meaty so that his mids hit on wake up
Get around 3,000 options for continuing pressure off of just doing that the whole game
????
Profit

Even if you're losing just remember that your comeback potential is second only to Joker when you're down to FB health. You can autopilot pressure the entire game as long as you're minding when the Highs hit. Idk what could be consistently blowing up your down 3s and 4s cause they're some of the best pokes in the game.

 

[Espio]

I'm confused. I just tried to come back to the game, I missed the good JC timeline apparently, I'm using Shock Jock and he feels awful to me. He feels worse than launch JC. Which I hated launch JC.

I don't understand how he is top 5 still?

He has no mid game. D3 & D4 are getting stuffed by more things than I feel It should be. He has 0 natural OH pressure. Almost all of his strings start with a High. Some of his frame traps from before don't seem to work the same. Whiffing issues still. Plus frames are gone.

I mean... Is the camera variation where It's at or??? What am I missing here? Halp?

Outtake and Showstopper been the wave for most of the game's life.

Johnny's down 4 should be one of his main pokes and it is really good and goes under a lot of things. Down 4 is plus enough to jail into his Forward 3 string which is -2 and can also be used as a stagger option. A lot of his strings also reset neutral at +1 with space. Johnny does well in spacing and whiff punishing the opponent by baiting them into counter poke scenarios.

Forward 4,4 isn't the best mid ever, but it is -5 and decent speed. Johnny is more like characters like Baraka and D'vorah where they jail you off their poke and other high hit advantage options.

Outtake has the safe special, solid zoning and keeps the nut punch launcher that Shock Jock has and Showstopper has the damage/huge comeback potential.

I'm not speaking on tier placement of Johnny, but he is very much still a very strong character.

By the sound of things, you should play Outtake for safety and more of a well rounded zoning game.