MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

[Arqwart]

There is a simple and easy answer to that. SonicFox is just better than Dragon. He beats him with so much different character. Dragon can lab all he can and pick superior character all he want, SonicFox is still going to beat him.

Except when he got 3-1'd and tossed into Losers by Dragon. We'll just ignore that I guess.

 

[Hellbringer]

Lots of theoryfighting in this thread again.

 

[M.D.]

Yes.

Resume:

Cage is high tier just like the other high tiers
Cage is not broken
Cage does not need nerfs
FIX THE HITBOXES

 

[LMNYHappyDaze]

I'm surprised we saw so little JC to be honest. Sonic doing well with him doesn't surprise anyone but I was expecting to see an army of Outtakes and Showstopper

 

[LMNYHappyDaze]

Also when Sonic did D4 into Forceballs I almost fell outta my chair. Is that a thing lol?

 

[Wigy]

Also when Sonic did D4 into Forceballs I almost fell outta my chair. Is that a thing lol?

In games where seemingly nobody pokes cage back. Yes.

 

[lordlosh]

Except when he got 3-1'd and tossed into Losers by Dragon. We'll just ignore that I guess.

Yeah he send SonicFox to losers in many ocasion, just to be runback and owned at the GF. SonicFox is mental wall, and its Dragon head, and he cant beat him, where everything is on the line.
If you follow SonicFox you should know that he is different type animal when he is send to the losers. His real game start then.

M.D., im sorry but every single one put Johnny Cage into the mid tier list, no one has him in High tiers, untill SonicFox picks him and own the whole stage.

 

[Frosted 57]

Hey guys. Just figured I'd put my 2 cents in. I ended up tying for 25th using only outtake. I've played cage since launch and def think it goes without saying that he's in the best spot he's been in, and def a solid character. Outtake makes it so he doesn't feel so assed out in his worst matchups and feels like a real character when used in conjunction with showstopper. Imo he isn't top 10 but he's good. That said I definitely think you need a secondary for his worst matchups. Being at ECT basically convinced me of this. It's not that he cant beat good Jacqui's, Sonya's or Kitana's and the like, just why make it that hard on yourself(I say this as a delusional character loyalist btw). I beat Tweedy's frost v3 in pools, imo the v3 mu hasn't seemed that bad. Lost on stream to Han Rashid, didn't play that great. Was surprised how much being on stream affected me. Probably should have gone showstopper, but with the dropped cancels and missed throw techs it likely wouldn't have changed the outcome. Then in the top 48 I got dunked by Coach Steve's Jacqui(Coach Steve actually had to beat three outtake cage's in a row to make top 16, I don't think he lost a game with Jacqui against any of us). This is only the third offline event I've been to and idk how many more I'll be able to make it to, but overall I had a good time.

As far as the discussion about Sonic's cage. It's clearly an unfinished character for him, and it def seemed like his opponents weren't quite prepared enough for how sonic was gonna play him. But Sonic only played him in matches I think he does ok or well in. Overall you cant judge how good cage is at that level yet, since was tourney one of sonic using him. We will have to wait and see how the other players adapt to it. If sonics cage gets dunked at the next tourney then yeah maybe they just weren't prepared enough this time. But if he doesn't then that's a whole other conversation.

 

[M.D.]

Sincerely I couldn't give a single fk about what the "pro" community believes. I know how to do math myself and see logic in front of me when it's there, I don't need some "pro" to hold my hands.

The only thing that bothers me is that NRS has them followed on twitter and literally copy paste some suggestions straight in the game.

Everyone says Cage is top 1 -> nerf
nobody says cage whiffs on half the roster -> no fix

As proof for this, SilverRye and some other "top" players tweeted to Dizzy OMG KANG WHIFS ON CAGE qq boo hoo, they instantly fixed it in the patch.
God forbid they'd fix it the other way arround, hypocrisy at it's finest.

That's all.

 

[Name v.5.0]

I'm really curious. How many shitty MUs does Geras, Jacqui, Sonya, Cetrion, Kang, Frost, Kabal, Erron, and Dvorah have? I genuinely dont know and I'm curious.

As a Cage player, I feel like I currently have 9-11 bad MUs for sure. A few I'm not totally sure about.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

It isn’t obvious guys?

The answer is that we are ALL trash.

They make fun of us on DISCORD.

D-I-S-C-O-R-D guys.

We are loosahs and will never be the popular kids and get to go to TYM homecoming where most members are taking their mothers as dates.

Shut the whole thread down guys.

We are cancelled.

Fired.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Im just saying...Johnny, while being pretty good, is still a pocket character and ECT proved that. I just dont understand how anyone could see him as like a top 3 character.

Fuck...I hope they don’t nerf him.

 

[M.D.]

They will clearly nerf him.

However, pro useless have their uses.

If they "nerf" him like they did cassie, putting a flawless block gap in her rising kick, then it's fine. Literally nobody flawlessed block that kick ever because they nerfed flawless block lol.

If they decrease +6 from fireballs to +3 then nobody cares as nothing was guaranteed anyway so it will play the same.

I'm more worried about nerfing advantage on d4 so it won't allow f3. Or from 124 +6 going to 0 or minus, WITHOUT fixing the female hitbox 1 and 2 whiffs or giving him a faster mid.
Then that will make his female mu-s 4-6 at least, and then I shall videotape myself shitting on the game disc and post it on twitter and here so I can have all my accounts banned.

 

[Helter Skelter]

I understand that players want their characters to be stronger, have elements of the character improved/fixed.

The real question is why can't the community (we don't need to be any more specific) be happy that the character the love so much is doing well and gaining some representation?

As a grown person I hate throwing around the word 'toxic', but I'm can't find another word for the behaviour being exhibited here.

I've whined about my characters in the past but have never been upset that a character I love and enjoy is doing well.

If any of you did well with any character, would you like someone dismantling your victories and writing paragraphs of excuses (because that's what they are) as to why it somehow didn't count.

I've been reading this thread for weeks (mostly because it draws attention to itself) and it's ridiculous.

What happened to "Glad my character can win a tournament. Let's hope they can keep it up and remain consistent."

Whenever a character wins it's either the character is a OP or that every player the loses to them is trash/has no idea and that the player using them is fraudulent in some way.

Johnny doesn't need nerfs and any character is going to benefit from having better hitboxes but this is kinda pathetic.

 

[Name v.5.0]

I understand that players want their characters to be stronger, have elements of the character improved/fixed.

The real question is why can't the community (we don't need to be any more specific) be happy that the character the love so much is doing well and gaining some representation?

As a grown person I hate throwing around the word 'toxic', but I'm can't find another word for the behaviour being exhibited here.

I've whined about my characters in the past but have never been upset that a character I love and enjoy is doing well.

If any of you did well with any character, would you like someone dismantling your victories and writing paragraphs of excuses (because that's what they are) as to why it somehow didn't count.

I've been reading this thread for weeks (mostly because it draws attention to itself) and it's ridiculous.

What happened to "Glad my character can win a tournament. Let's hope they can keep it up and remain consistent."

Whenever a character wins it's either the character is a OP or that every player the loses to them is trash/has no idea and that the player using them is fraudulent in some way.

Johnny doesn't need nerfs and any character is going to benefit from having better hitboxes but this is kinda pathetic.

I can’t speak for everyone I’m here, but For me, it simply boils down to avoiding a nerf. The point I always make is what they did to Cage in MKX. He didn’t deserve it, and it completely fucked him down to trash tier shit. He was so unusable that I completely dropped him as a main, and finally just quit playing at all.

People are literally calling for nerfs right now. He’s not OP. He’s not top 3...but he’s also not shit. I’m fine with how he is. Please don’t fucking nerf him.

 

[Wigy]

I understand that players want their characters to be stronger, have elements of the character improved/fixed.

The real question is why can't the community (we don't need to be any more specific) be happy that the character the love so much is doing well and gaining some representation?

As a grown person I hate throwing around the word 'toxic', but I'm can't find another word for the behaviour being exhibited here.

I've whined about my characters in the past but have never been upset that a character I love and enjoy is doing well.

If any of you did well with any character, would you like someone dismantling your victories and writing paragraphs of excuses (because that's what they are) as to why it somehow didn't count.

I've been reading this thread for weeks (mostly because it draws attention to itself) and it's ridiculous.

What happened to "Glad my character can win a tournament. Let's hope they can keep it up and remain consistent."

Whenever a character wins it's either the character is a OP or that every player the loses to them is trash/has no idea and that the player using them is fraudulent in some way.

Johnny doesn't need nerfs and any character is going to benefit from having better hitboxes but this is kinda pathetic.

Prior to all the crazy sensationalizing on Tier list placement the only real this that could be considered negative from us about cage is venting frustration on whiffing issues.

Most of this chat at the moment is us just counteracting the mental up-play and misinformation. Hard to not say something about the people not playing it right when ninjakilla just stood blocking after every mb forceball.

At this point most of us are having a joke and meme about it and stopping some laughably undeserved nerfing

 

[Rodney Quillz]

I understand that players want their characters to be stronger, have elements of the character improved/fixed.

The real question is why can't the community (we don't need to be any more specific) be happy that the character the love so much is doing well and gaining some representation?

As a grown person I hate throwing around the word 'toxic', but I'm can't find another word for the behaviour being exhibited here.

I've whined about my characters in the past but have never been upset that a character I love and enjoy is doing well.

If any of you did well with any character, would you like someone dismantling your victories and writing paragraphs of excuses (because that's what they are) as to why it somehow didn't count.

I've been reading this thread for weeks (mostly because it draws attention to itself) and it's ridiculous.

What happened to "Glad my character can win a tournament. Let's hope they can keep it up and remain consistent."

Whenever a character wins it's either the character is a OP or that every player the loses to them is trash/has no idea and that the player using them is fraudulent in some way.

Johnny doesn't need nerfs and any character is going to benefit from having better hitboxes but this is kinda pathetic.

It doesn’t really draw attention to itself, people being sheep draw attention to it lol.

 

[lordlosh]

The problem is balancing team of NRS is pure g. I mean you should listen to your fanbase, but you should not balance the game towards some low skilled players or whining spoiling kids. Twitter and youtube is full of 14 years old crybaby fanboys, who obviously s of the game, but the moment SonicFox beat out ninja, they were asking to nerf Johnny Cage, and how strong and OP he is.
Before SonicFox ever used him, no one ever talk about that character.
Same thing happen with Cassie Cage.
She was placed top tier, even when she was nerfed, but the moment SonicFox said he is dropping her, no one ever talk about Cassie Cage again and how OP she was ....
Still the main problem is NRS balancing team that is doing s** after s***.
They are undeservedly nerfing certain character, yet in the same time left some other character being obviously OP.
They need to work on their own. Yeah listen to the feedback, but they should balance the game towards what they think its right, not due to twitter pressure. But for that you need a good balancing team, who really knows the game and how to handle things.

But what more can be said about guys who decide to punish you with a throw KBs if you tech wrong. You are being punish for being fast to tech the throw, but you guess wrong. How dumb that is ?
And i still dont get how character like Kang can have 6 solid KBs, 4 of them very easy to land, top 3 FB, and character like Cage have 1 solid KB that you need to waste your FB in terms to land it .... And a FB that is probably one of the worst.

Just wait and see NRS logic. If SonicFox wins another major with Cage, he will most probably get axed, tho he is a mid tier character.

 

[M.D.]

Cage will clearly get nerfed.

The damage has been already done on twitter by our beloved "pro" players and NRS saw all the tweets so it's too late.

Now the only hope is to get him fixed as well along with the nerfs so we don't have a 3-7 character against half the cast.

 

[DrFolmer]

Just tone down the forceball stuff or make rising star gapped. He shouldnt really have such good panic buttons with very strong zoning. Thats why Cetrion has been a cunt for months lol

 

[Lone]

This thread is wild at some points. NRS has been good about minor tweaks for balance so if they tweak Outtake I’m sure it’ll be fine. Btw, Ninja uses Geras, Sonya, Jax, Jacqui, JC, Skarlet, and Baraka so he definitely understands how Johnny works. MK11 is heavily reads based so I do believe that was a factor

Since launch I have placed Liu, JC, Jax, and Lao in the same grouping. Maybe Lao a tier below the others since his zoning isn’t as good.

JC is fun to watch and I have nothing to lose or gain from him getting “normalized” but I definitely think he has always been a solid character. Dude has cool taunts, win poses, skins, gear, and animations too.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Cage will clearly get nerfed.

The damage has been already done on twitter by our beloved "pro" players and NRS saw all the tweets so it's too late.

Now the only hope is to get him fixed as well along with the nerfs so we don't have a 3-7 character against half the cast.

I don't think anybody is talking about nerfing Cage as a whole.

If anything, I only see people mentioning possibly adjusting Outtake a bit, but that's it. Both the other variations are no better than they used to be.

 

[Parasurama]

The problem is balancing team of NRS is pure g. I mean you should listen to your fanbase, but you should not balance the game towards some low skilled players or whining spoiling kids. Twitter and youtube is full of 14 years old crybaby fanboys, who obviously s of the game, but the moment SonicFox beat out ninja, they were asking to nerf Johnny Cage, and how strong and OP he is.
Before SonicFox ever used him, no one ever talk about that character.
Same thing happen with Cassie Cage.
She was placed top tier, even when she was nerfed, but the moment SonicFox said he is dropping her, no one ever talk about Cassie Cage again and how OP she was ....
Still the main problem is NRS balancing team that is doing s** after s***.
They are undeservedly nerfing certain character, yet in the same time left some other character being obviously OP.
They need to work on their own. Yeah listen to the feedback, but they should balance the game towards what they think its right, not due to twitter pressure. But for that you need a good balancing team, who really knows the game and how to handle things.

But what more can be said about guys who decide to punish you with a throw KBs if you tech wrong. You are being punish for being fast to tech the throw, but you guess wrong. How dumb that is ?
And i still dont get how character like Kang can have 6 solid KBs, 4 of them very easy to land, top 3 FB, and character like Cage have 1 solid KB that you need to waste your FB in terms to land it .... And a FB that is probably one of the worst.

Just wait and see NRS logic. If SonicFox wins another major with Cage, he will most probably get axed, tho he is a mid tier character.

Lol and then Sonic will go to the next character ( Sonic is not really a loyalist like Ninja killa). Sonic plays Cage for a reason- no matter how you look at it and only picked him up to deal with Liu Kang when the whiff was in play. Sonic is the best and most consistent but you have also see his motives.
Like I have said before, I would rather lab a character before talking about nerfs but some of you guys seem to be quite defensive yet Nobody here is really asking for nerfs yet.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The problem is balancing team of NRS is pure g. I mean you should listen to your fanbase, but you should not balance the game towards some low skilled players or whining spoiling kids. Twitter and youtube is full of 14 years old crybaby fanboys, who obviously s of the game, but the moment SonicFox beat out ninja, they were asking to nerf Johnny Cage, and how strong and OP he is.
Before SonicFox ever used him, no one ever talk about that character.
Same thing happen with Cassie Cage.
She was placed top tier, even when she was nerfed, but the moment SonicFox said he is dropping her, no one ever talk about Cassie Cage again and how OP she was ....
Still the main problem is NRS balancing team that is doing s** after s***.
They are undeservedly nerfing certain character, yet in the same time left some other character being obviously OP.
They need to work on their own. Yeah listen to the feedback, but they should balance the game towards what they think its right, not due to twitter pressure. But for that you need a good balancing team, who really knows the game and how to handle things.

But what more can be said about guys who decide to punish you with a throw KBs if you tech wrong. You are being punish for being fast to tech the throw, but you guess wrong. How dumb that is ?
And i still dont get how character like Kang can have 6 solid KBs, 4 of them very easy to land, top 3 FB, and character like Cage have 1 solid KB that you need to waste your FB in terms to land it .... And a FB that is probably one of the worst.

Just wait and see NRS logic. If SonicFox wins another major with Cage, he will most probably get axed, tho he is a mid tier character.

Lol.

The thing about your rants is that they don't actually add up with the facts.
1) Characters who have been nerfed: Geras, Sonya, Jacqui, Liu Kang, Cassie, Scorpion

Maybe you can argue that ONE of those characters didn't need the nerf, but the rest of them were all completely obvious candidates for being toned down. If you think that the company needed someone to tell them this, I don't know what to say.

2) This is by far the most balanced game we have ever had. 2/3 of the cast is currently viable, a few months into the game's life. There are top tiers just like any other fighting game, but this game becomes more balanced with every patch, and there are at least a few patches left.

I have no idea what this rant is about.

 

[lordlosh]

I never complained about Sonya, Jacqui, Cassie or Scorpion. Tho i agree with everyone that Sonya was too strong.
Geras has too much KBs and that was a big problem.
But Kang beat them all in one. He had it all with no weakness.
And again changing completely broken move from 9frame to 11frame change almost nothing. It was one of the problem.
And i dont agree that the game is getting more balanced with every patch.
After the first balance patch, the game was not in good place.
Liu Kang was and still is OP and by huge margin number 1 in the cast.
I dont have problem with tier list and a top tier character i have problem where there is obviously OP characters.
The whole picture where the best player ever doesnt have an answer in 2 tournaments for Kang, speaks for itself.
He needs to specifically search for a character that just have a chance against Kang. Cause no matter what some said, i still think its Kang > Johnny.

And sorry but NRS balancing team show how "good" they are in the past. They completely messed MK10 with every balance they made, at the end there was completely broken characters, that you cant do a s**** about them.