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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Yes but Showstopper was valid and from the twitter "pros" he's godlike top 3, plus pressure godlike staggers 60% unbreakable etc etc etc.

Anyway, It seems nobody posts about cage any more on twitter after this tournament, maybe they want to put it under the rug and let it go, so I'll just go back to my cave.
 
Error404

Error404

Kombatant
Honestly, I don't even know how a character with no fast mids and weak throws is even in the conversation for top 5.

Outtake is good , because RS covers the mid weakness , but it costs bar. And only does 12% . Far from gamebreaking IMO. Sure , I'll agree he is probably top10 . But the best? Top 3? Come on...
 
ShepherdOfFire

ShepherdOfFire

Kombatant
Can someone post a link to the tier lists you discussed earlier ? I'd like to see them.

I've lost a bit of interest in Johnny right now, I am very disappointed in his new variation. I don't think it's bad, I actually think it's kinda good, but I expected a variation with Stunt Doubles and Pissed Off (I guess this will be the 4th ranked variation). So I'm focusing on my secondaries right now.
I don't like to play with Showstopper, I know the variation kicks ass but I just don't like the moveset. I expected slight buffs for the Shock Jock moves to have more utility than the current meta. Brass Knuckles is very dangerous to use without any setup and giving up some damage to set up the Brass Knuckles is rarely worth it right now. BK is a great move but I don't think using it is a priority when you can secure 5-6% with a combo ender.
Caged Rage, can be good if you manage to confirm the first CR on block but the risk reward is, to me, not in Johnny's favor (I'd say high risk/medium reward)
And Mime Time, not a bad move in itself but it is a 12 frames parry, which is quite a long start up but allows for decent damage if MB. Also has a KB but I don't want to praise it because if you don't land it as the first move of the game (so when your opponent has both defensive bars for a breaker), then it is impossible to trigger it. If any JC player manages to trigger it against an awake opponent, then he has all my respect.
And of course the f43 KB is still very hard to trigger, so Johnny Outtake/Shock Jock still has to play without the KB mechanic if we don't count the universal d2 KB. I know the nutpunch KB is still here but... Honestly... Who punishes with a raw nutpunch ? This requirement is so weird.

So I prefer focusing on other characters right now because I have more fun with them. Cage isn't as fun as he used to be honestly.
 
ShepherdOfFire

ShepherdOfFire

Kombatant
I've shared this on Cetrion's general thread but I'm sharing it here too because Cage is affected by the bug :


Conflux of Elements is bugged and stops advancing specials, including Johnny's Shadow Kick.

That being said, the variation doesn't seem to be very popular among Cetrion players, but at least you know it is bugged in case you face that one Cetrion player that will use it.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
I think I'd rather use Shock Jock than Outtake at this point. Been playing nothing but Outtake for KL and I'm doing so much worse this season. Switched to Shock Jock last night and won 12 in a row. People still get shit on by Caged Rage, and Mime Time still blows up staggers if you got the balls.

Poking into Rising Star is the most worthless waste of meter...If my opponent gets hit by it, they tend to get hit more, but learn to block it mid match. Oh boy, I just got 12%. WOW. Using Shock Jock, I pull out poke~nut punch maybe once a match to turn the tide and it fucking works. If it doesn't, I learned my lesson and won't try again. If the opponent successfully blocks poke~RS, there's zero reason to do it again. Since Cage is safe on all his strings anyway, why do I need Rising Star? What's it really getting me? Chip, and a reset neutral where it's their turn? The forceballs are good...sort of...People are learning to be patient and move in slow. Ok, so that pushes them into Cage's footsie sweet spot, right? If I know it, and they know it...It's just reads again. Nothing really gained, especially against female hitboxes. What is the damn point of Outtake?

I dont know, maybe it's just my style of play, but Shock Jock comes natural and I get results. Moreso than when I play Outtake and even Showstopper. At least I know why Showstopper is actually good. You can't shit on his unbreakable damage...but Outtake...What the fuck am I even doing?

I guess I've never really been the zoning type.
 
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M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Name v.5.0 said:
I think I'd rather use Shock Jock than Outtake at this point. Been playing nothing but Outtake for KL and I'm doing so much worse this season. Switched to Shock Jock last night and won 12 in a row. People still get shit on by Caged Rage, and Mime Time still blows up staggers if you got the balls.

Poking into Rising Star is the most worthless waste of meter...If my opponent gets hit by it, they tend to get hit more, but learn to block it mid match. Oh boy, I just got 12%. WOW. Using Shock Jock, I pull out poke~nut punch maybe once a match to turn the tide and it fucking works. If it doesn't, I learned my lesson and won't try again. If the opponent successfully blocks poke~RS, there's zero reason to do it again. Since Cage is safe on all his strings anyway, now the move is Why do I need Rising Star? What's it really getting me? Chip, and a reset neutral where it's their turn? The forceballs are good...sort of...People are learning to be patient and move in slow. Ok, so that pushes them into Cage's footsie sweet spot, right? If I know it, and they know it...It's just reads again. Nothing really gained, especially against female hitboxes. What is the damn point of Outtake?

I dont know, maybe it's just my style of play, but Shock Jock comes natural and I get results. Moreso than when I play Outtake and even Showstopper. At least I know why Showstopper is actually good. You can't shit on his unbreakable damage...but Outtake...What the fuck am I even doing?

I guess I've never really been the zoning type.
Click to expand...
Nope, you're right. People insta upplay outtake zoning with 0 proof. Meanwhile when you ACTUALLY PLAY IT it's just a standard zone that gets countered like everyone else, nothing special.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
M.D. said:
Nope, you're right. People insta upplay outtake zoning with 0 proof. Meanwhile when you ACTUALLY PLAY IT it's just a standard zone that gets countered like everyone else, nothing special.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I feel like if people took it to the lab they'd think different. Just set Cage up to spam the fuck outta you at full screen, and learn how to move in slowly, and carefully...or if you're Cassie...low gun shot and make it worthless.
 
T

Tundra81

Kombatant
I'm a fan of Outtake but I think I've gotten dumber since I started playing it. It's so fucking potato. I take KL with a grain of salt but I'm having a much more difficult time this season with using Outtake exclusively compared to previous seasons. It also feels like this season is as sweaty as it's ever been. Been a few months since I've touched Shock Jock, think I might dust him off for old times sakes.
 
R

Rodney Quillz

Kombatant
Name v.5.0 said:
I think I'd rather use Shock Jock than Outtake at this point. Been playing nothing but Outtake for KL and I'm doing so much worse this season. Switched to Shock Jock last night and won 12 in a row. People still get shit on by Caged Rage, and Mime Time still blows up staggers if you got the balls.

Poking into Rising Star is the most worthless waste of meter...If my opponent gets hit by it, they tend to get hit more, but learn to block it mid match. Oh boy, I just got 12%. WOW. Using Shock Jock, I pull out poke~nut punch maybe once a match to turn the tide and it fucking works. If it doesn't, I learned my lesson and won't try again. If the opponent successfully blocks poke~RS, there's zero reason to do it again. Since Cage is safe on all his strings anyway, why do I need Rising Star? What's it really getting me? Chip, and a reset neutral where it's their turn? The forceballs are good...sort of...People are learning to be patient and move in slow. Ok, so that pushes them into Cage's footsie sweet spot, right? If I know it, and they know it...It's just reads again. Nothing really gained, especially against female hitboxes. What is the damn point of Outtake?

I dont know, maybe it's just my style of play, but Shock Jock comes natural and I get results. Moreso than when I play Outtake and even Showstopper. At least I know why Showstopper is actually good. You can't shit on his unbreakable damage...but Outtake...What the fuck am I even doing?

I guess I've never really been the zoning type.
Click to expand...
I don’t get it man, I just can’t quit shock jock.

I wish it was more practical though.

lameing people out with forceballs is potato and not fun even if it yields great results, Kombat League feels like even more of a job using this variation.

showstopper is cool but Johnny with no nut punch is weird and it’s hard not to do d1 camera sometimes lol.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Fighting Frost is so fucking stupid. If that’s a winning or even MU for Cage the. I’ll eat my hat. How many top 5 have more than one bad MU? Just wondering.
 
T

Tundra81

Kombatant
Lotta top 5/10 talk lately so let's take a minute and discuss who we think the top 5 actually are at this point in the game as scrub TYM Johnny mains. I'll start....in order....IMO

-Cetrion
-Geras
-Sonya
-Liu
-Jacqui

6-10 is really tough but I'm pretty set in my ways on the top 5. I'll agree with the masses that this game is well balanced at this point in its life...

-Jax
-Cassie
-Kabal
-Johnny
-Baraka

Curious to see what your top 5/10's are.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Tundra81 said:
Lotta top 5/10 talk lately so let's take a minute and discuss who we think the top 5 actually are at this point in the game as scrub TYM Johnny mains. I'll start....in order....IMO

-Cetrion
-Geras
-Sonya
-Liu
-Jacqui

6-10 is really tough but I'm pretty set in my ways on the top 5. I'll agree with the masses that this game is well balanced at this point in its life...

-Jax
-Cassie
-Kabal
-Johnny
-Baraka

Curious to see what your top 5/10's are.
Click to expand...
There might be an argument for Skarlet, but definitely Erron Black over Baraka. He's still really fucking good, even after the nerfs.
 
thlityoursloat

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Tundra81 said:
Lotta top 5/10 talk lately so let's take a minute and discuss who we think the top 5 actually are at this point in the game as scrub TYM Johnny mains. I'll start....in order....IMO

-d1 rising star
-124
-f3 the unbeatable footsie button
-outtake forceballs
-forceball + frames

6-10 is really tough but I'm pretty set in my ways on the top 5. I'll agree with the masses that this game is well balanced at this point in its life...

Curious to see what your top 5/10's are.
Click to expand...
fixed
 
K

kcd117

Kombatant
Tundra81 said:
Lotta top 5/10 talk lately so let's take a minute and discuss who we think the top 5 actually are at this point in the game as scrub TYM Johnny mains. I'll start....in order....IMO

-Cetrion
-Geras
-Sonya
-Liu
-Jacqui

6-10 is really tough but I'm pretty set in my ways on the top 5. I'll agree with the masses that this game is well balanced at this point in its life...

-Jax
-Cassie
-Kabal
-Johnny
-Baraka

Curious to see what your top 5/10's are.
Click to expand...
Imo

1 Geras
2 Cetrion

They play their own game. They are another level of dumb by this game’s standards.

3 Sonya
4 Jacqui
5 Liu
6 Nightwolf
7 Baraka

No matter what their mains say, they are defnitely not balanced characters.

8 Cage
9 Kotal
10 Noob

I think they are fine but I can see some of getting minor adjustments.

Honorable mentions to:

Kabal
Jax
Cassie
Frost
Skarlet

I think they are really good and have some potentially broken stuff but idk, they seem to have some effective hard counters and it kinda keeps them balanced imo.
 
ShepherdOfFire

ShepherdOfFire

Kombatant
My top 5/10 in order :
  • Sonya (Ring Master)
  • Geras (All variations)
  • Cetrion (Spring Cleaning)
  • Liu Kang (Luohan Quan)
  • Jax (Hunker Down)
  • Johnny (Showstopper)
  • Jacqui Briggs (1st Round KO/Upgraded)
  • Cassie (Digital Soldier)
  • Kabal (Clean Cut/Speed Demon)
  • Nightwolf (Matoka Warrior/Shaman)
I highlighted the variation or variations that makes the character strong enough to be in the top 5.

Johnny is the 6th best character in the game to me. If he had a faster mid and better KBs... He would be in my top 3 in a heartbeat. I added the variation or variations that makes the character strong enough to be in the top 5, because Shock Jock is not top 10 for me, like Cassie wouldn't be in the top 10 if we rank Sups OD.
 
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D

Deleted member 35141

Guest
I'm kind of curious what top 10 characters in MK9 MKX Injstuce 1 and 2 did we not see used in a tournament
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Ok, so aparently the "pro" twitter players are now saying that tournament usage does not count in tier lists.

This is a debate going on for a long time, but it's really very simple.

If a character is not dominating online ranked.
If a character is not dominating tournaments with prize money.
If a character is not negating a significant part of the cast and literally makes them unusable against him (6-4 and more)

So the character is not keeping people out of their money or out of their ranked points, and does not break the game rules in any way that it does not delete other characters from the character select screen.


Then might I inquire, what's your logical reason for requesting nerfs and saying he's broke?

We all saw DJT using the Cyrax glitch in mk9. We all saw Zod vs Lex. We all saw marvel infinites. Pro players are money targeting machines, they do not care about ethics or not using a character out of respect. They are literally and always playing to win.

Then if such a character exists that allegedly negates a big part of the game, wouldn't the logical part be to use it to win money as long as the tournament rules permit it?

It's a logical contradiction that doesn't fit.


Still people have now started a trend to ask NERFS FOR CAGE. With no mention to the BUG FIXES he needs.

There is no reasoning with these people and they do not accept logic. I do not care about them, but the problem is NRS cares. This is literally the only problem. If somehow the NRS team would actually get it in their heads to THINK and not blindly listen to these people it will be great. But what guarantee do we have this would happen? Zero.
 
R

Rodney Quillz

Kombatant
M.D. said:
Ok, so aparently the "pro" twitter players are now saying that tournament usage does not count in tier lists.

This is a debate going on for a long time, but it's really very simple.

If a character is not dominating online ranked.
If a character is not dominating tournaments with prize money.
If a character is not negating a significant part of the cast and literally makes them unusable against him (6-4 and more)

So the character is not keeping people out of their money or out of their ranked points, and does not break the game rules in any way that it does not delete other characters from the character select screen.


Then might I inquire, what's your logical reason for requesting nerfs and saying he's broke?

We all saw DJT using the Cyrax glitch in mk9. We all saw Zod vs Lex. We all saw marvel infinites. Pro players are money targeting machines, they do not care about ethics or not using a character out of respect. They are literally and always playing to win.

Then if such a character exists that allegedly negates a big part of the game, wouldn't the logical part be to use it to win money as long as the tournament rules permit it?

It's a logical contradiction that doesn't fit.


Still people have now started a trend to ask NERFS FOR CAGE. With no mention to the BUG FIXES he needs.

There is no reasoning with these people and they do not accept logic. I do not care about them, but the problem is NRS cares. This is literally the only problem. If somehow the NRS team would actually get it in their heads to THINK and not blindly listen to these people it will be great. But what guarantee do we have this would happen? Zero.
Click to expand...
LMAO dude you see that dude call you out on Twitter? M.D. is an enemy of the state!
 
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