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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

Tundra81

This is re-goddamned-diculous
Premium Supporter
So...jumped on tweedy's stream earlier to find him play Outtake against Jacqui and Kitana.

Naturally I payed close attention to see how he uses the char he thinks is top 5 against whiff city females.

And I got literally stumped. His opponents were respecting everything. Man was doing 124 into DASH b3 and they were not only taking it without doing anything, but sometimes even getting hit by it.

He was doing 121 which is -7 and then backdash b3 and they were getting hit by it. because they just stood there on -7. WIth Jacqui and Kitana.... My head exploded.

The worst part was in the corner where he was using 2 staggers and 1 staggers to autoshimmy, but THEY ALL WHIFFED and the opponents were just crouch blocking in fear and getting hit by the followups.


And then it hit me. Players that play at high level against each other with the whole cast, have learned to respect the game as IT SHOULD work. They're blocking the 1 and 2's because logic dictates they should hit in crouch block and they never actually practiced the specific matchup to just mash d1 and d2 and see that it works.

So naturally Tweedy actually steamrolled those guys very, very hard. They were respecting Cage as he SHOULD work if he would have been fixed. I'm absolutely sure they don't even care or notice that they can actually mash out for free. Not only that but they had no idea about the matchup, so they didn't take their turn after 121, f4, f44, and they never punished b2, rising shoulder non amped or nut punch. They never neutral jumped over his b34 or walkback downpoke his pressure. They just stood there and took it.

On the other side of the coin, in my offline group, since I play Cage a lot versus them they have just learned they don't have to respect jack shit, so they just d1 d4 d2 mash NON STOP if i'm closer than b3 range and I can't literally use ANYTHING because nothing works. It doesn't help that they play Kitana, Cassie and Frost either. LOL 124 dash in b3, come on like really? I still can't get it out of my head. s2 staggers in the corner on whiff and they still kept blocking...wtf. I can't get away with this shit here in the offlines not even if they're afk for crap's sake

I'm very annoyed right now that an obvious thing that's out there is just getting skipped and ignored while everyone agrees cage is top 5, which means not only he will never get any buffs, but he will never get any fixes.

Dissapointment level 1000, I feel like I just want to quit and go back to Soul Calibur, fk it.
I watched the Jacqui set and the KL set with VideogamezYo. VGY was on a wifi connection, WHAT!?!? This was the same Jacqui that bopped Mike pretty bad in his stream today. Tweedy stuck it out with Outtake for a little bit but eventually switched to Frost, top 1 Bois amirite! Upgraded is fucking bonkers. I'll watch the Kitana set tomorrow, I'm tired and intoxicated and going to bed.
 
After playing some Terminators with both Showstopper and Outtake, I think I can safely say that the MU is in Johnny's favor. Forceballs jail, D4 pretty much stops all of Terminators approach and his movement speed is just way too fast for him wiff punishes are easy for the most part
 

Tundra81

This is re-goddamned-diculous
Premium Supporter
It's pretty early man. This is pretty standard for day 1 dlc. I bopped ever Terminator I played last night but it's because I have 2000+ matches with Johnny and Joe Blow just picked up Arnie 5 minutes ago. He got some scary tools, safe mix, 6f D1, stubby but good mids and when he opens you up he does some serious damage. Johnny out spaces/ out footsies him for sure. I'd be willing to bet once he gets fleshed out more he's going to be a very scary character.
 
Yeah that's true it is still early but I ran into some pretty notable players the other day. I don't wanna name drop but they were some recognizable tournament players and they couldn't get in on me for anything. That could also be inexperience with the character but I also think it's not in Terminators favor to begin with. Time will tell but it's my first impressions.
 

heildan

NANI?!
Terminator seems pretty weak to zoning so far. It doesn't look like Johnny have trouble up close against him too, he has the tools.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
So Rewind has Cage at top 2 in the game.

I have no idea why I keep doing this trying to row up stream instead of quitting the game. Maybe I'm masochistic :/

TOP 2 = being able to jail from a poke and having rising star

Now I'm starting to genuinely be concerned i'm a tard and just don't get it while everyone else sees the light.
Alas, literally nobody is winning with Cage anything except random casuals where people get d1ed after blocking -14 b2, so yea.

I find it amusing how top Cage players literally LOSE the match while saying "he's dumb", "he's top tier".

Come on guys, how about actually SHOWING US? There's an idea.

16017
 
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DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
Now I'm starting to genuinely be concerned i'm a tard and just don't get it while everyone else sees the light
Nah bruvski, I'm there too. It's cringe seeing people get hit with f344 after 124 when you in no single scenario have to take it. "Bro he can dash throw" - neutral ducking covers both options. The only option he has is to commit to f44 for no damage or risk everything on f4 NP. People talk so much about footsies yet these guys fall for shit that works on Kombatant players. I understand you can get hit from a d4 into f3 if you wanna read a grab nah fuck that LOL. But jeez, these people take full combos in situations they can full combo punish lmao. Just back dash and you dont take anything except maybe a shadow kick or a fireball (in other variations).

Johnny is crazy good at baiting pokes and whiff punishing - these guys dont even get hit by whiff punishers, they just out here pressing buttons when they shouldnt. I swear, some the online warriors in Elder God have labbed the matchup and that shit is sooooooooo clean. They backdash when they should, poke and disrespect at the right times, they dont let you get away with 3 f3 staggers in a row.

At least know the matchup and have above-Kombatant execution before dropping the top 1
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
I swear, some the online warriors in Elder God have labbed the matchup and that shit is sooooooooo clean. They backdash when they should, poke and disrespect at the right times, they dont let you get away with 3 f3 staggers in a row.

At least know the matchup and have above-Kombatant execution before dropping the top 1
This, how can I have this on a t-shirt, mother of god this, yes please god yes this yes.
 

LarSanity

Who hired this guy
Ive been watching sonic play johnny and hes pretty good with him.
The one thing I see though is nobody contests any of his highs acting like they are mids. I get that it's sonic fox like I would obviously get trashed but it's other pros.

Djt blocked f43 almost everytime sonic did it yet I played 12 matches yesterday against nobodies to see if I can get anyone to block that string and nope I hopped over every single time.

I also watched a video of reo and he was poking metroid out of his highs and I'm like finally
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
I hope that's not the video where the last match with frost he just let go of block 2 times in a row against b34 and lost vs 10 life cage because I almost had a stroke watching it
 
“Cage is a great character in the right opposing players hands.”

“Wut?”

It’s gotten to the point where I just started f3ing on knockdown or whenever I’m in b3 distance because people are just neutral jumping or jumping forward like crazy, you don’t experience this at the higher levels in KL or online.

I saw DJT block f3 like it was a mid and he was definitely respecting it too much but good players like that are gonna look for openings and what not, not mash out.

Everyone in here is facing people who are just mashing out, you want to play this character like sonic but you cannot because you aren’t facing his level of competition.

I think the reason why mashers tend to beat a lot of us here is because we get super frustrated with Cage and his certain flaws and it tends to get into our heads and we start making mistakes.

If you play patient enough, the mashers will kinda hang themselves.
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
I just wanna see people challenging stuff a lot more. There are quite a few characters on the roster who actually shutdown a lot of the shimmies. Sub and Scorpion for instance have d4's that make b34 after 124/forceballs useless as it reaches before it hits. This limits the approach somewhat. I just wanna see people actually study the matchup. Cage is a lot less scary when you force him to either 1) not press his advantage, 2) commit to f4.

These characters have a lot of options to contest the plusframes, particularly Scorpion has some nasty teleport whiff punishing if Cage presses buttons with out dashing first. But no, people do delayed jabs out of his +6 and get launched, people challenge with mids and highs instead of low profiling pokes. Or make him come off his offensive meter through forceballs making the neutral much more favorable for the opponent in terms of taking risks (as he cannot launch in this state). The footage I've seen so far is just a clusterfuck of questionable decision making, and yes some of it is solid reads, but theres nothing matchup specific

Im loving the new Kotal btw fuck yea
 

thlityoursloat

Scarlet peeing
Kotal confirmed top 1 because he can literally never die!
Scarlet top 1 because she also can't die!
Scorpion is top 1 because twirly speer checks everything and is safe in certain scenarios against certain characters!
Kano is top 1 because his d1 is a 50/50 on block!

A character is top 1 when they just have one good tool. It's pretty simple, and makes perfect sense.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Except guile has plus on block projectiles and can combo from them on hit from a string,and his projectiles don't whiff from 3/4 of the screen to close, and his anti-air reaches from half screen. He also has plus on block advancing normals and godlike normals anti air that literally beats ANY attack from the air period.

I think you might have pushed that comparation through the roof.

Commendable try though.

Also please see top 8 from Brazil tourney with some of the best players in the world to get a glimpse of actual godlike unbreakable damage, zoning, staggers, 60%+ combos to end the round and godlike footsies (i.e. the true top 5 of the game).

P.s.HINT: Cage was not in there.

P.p.s Comentators were making fun of twitter "pro" players saying sonya was mid tier and not top 5, all throughout top 8. Just to get an idea of the quality of info you get from those clueless twitter "pros" lol