MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

[Error404]

Cliff notes on the J.Cage vs. Liu Kang MU?
I play Wu Shi Legend btw.

Teleport around the fireball and don't get baited into whiffinf f4 and you'll be fine.

 

[M.D.]

Liu Kang is on par, and even outzones Outtake a bit. His triple projectile amplify makes sure he wins trades with the amplified low fireball and he can't just throw fireballs out as you can trade with him all day.

This is bad for Cage because on even life, Liu Kang has a bigger damage output than Outtake and access to three Krushing Blows where he gets >40% each time.

They fixed cage's hitbox so Liu Kang doesn't whiff on him any more, so no more bullshit whiff tech, he has to take your pressure.

The nerf to f4 is insignificant as he does not and did not ever have fast buttons to matter, f4 will still win over literally all cage buttons except pokes.

If you play your standard Kang game of f3 and f4 staggers, while cashing out on the krushing blows, the matchup is nothing specific at all.

You have to learn to disrespect his +6 124 a lot. Don't spam poke, just do it on reaction on what he does. If he does +6 or in Showstopper, +6 amplified fireballs, you will be at a huge distance so you just wait. If you see him advancing, just poke and you will poke him out of literally anything he does, even his f4. Otherwise you're back in neutral.

I suggest you record cage doing 124 or f344 bf2 amp (showstopper) in practice and then frame perfect f4, f3 and wait b3. Put these on random playback and learn when you can poke him or walk back, because you always can.

Learn to not be scared of his b3. It's 18 frames and there's no reason to just get hit by it in the neutral. If you see it you have time to neutral jump full combo punish, or you can just neutral jump a lot as a read since at that range the maximum punish he'll get is a fireball or shadow kick. He doesn't have time to f3 at that range and if he does, he is too far to cash in with a dash 2 121 ender.

In the corner you have to respect his +6 in the form of a guess. He has nothing guaranteed, so you have to guess if he throws/does a high, walks back to make you poke so he can whiff punish, or does a d4.

This is generic on all cast but don't press buttons after his pokes on hit.

The major fad going on now is that all outtake cages like to do d1 amplified rising shoulder on block. Set Cage in practice mode doing this and learn to see it and block high. There is no reason to fast poke back after cage pokes you on block as he has no fast mid, so just wait a bit and you'll catch a rising shoulder attempt.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Liu Kang is on par, and even outzones Outtake a bit. His triple projectile amplify makes sure he wins trades with the amplified low fireball and he can't just throw fireballs out as you can trade with him all day.

This is bad for Cage because on even life, Liu Kang has a bigger damage output than Outtake and access to three Krushing Blows where he gets >40% each time.

They fixed cage's hitbox so Liu Kang doesn't whiff on him any more, so no more bullshit whiff tech, he has to take your pressure.

The nerf to f4 is insignificant as he does not and did not ever have fast buttons to matter, f4 will still win over literally all cage buttons except pokes.

If you play your standard Kang game of f3 and f4 staggers, while cashing out on the krushing blows, the matchup is nothing specific at all.

You have to learn to disrespect his +6 124 a lot. Don't spam poke, just do it on reaction on what he does. If he does +6 or in Showstopper, +6 amplified fireballs, you will be at a huge distance so you just wait. If you see him advancing, just poke and you will poke him out of literally anything he does, even his f4. Otherwise you're back in neutral.

I suggest you record cage doing 124 or f344 bf2 amp (showstopper) in practice and then frame perfect f4, f3 and wait b3. Put these on random playback and learn when you can poke him or walk back, because you always can.

Learn to not be scared of his b3. It's 18 frames and there's no reason to just get hit by it in the neutral. If you see it you have time to neutral jump full combo punish, or you can just neutral jump a lot as a read since at that range the maximum punish he'll get is a fireball or shadow kick. He doesn't have time to f3 at that range and if he does, he is too far to cash in with a dash 2 121 ender.

In the corner you have to respect his +6 in the form of a guess. He has nothing guaranteed, so you have to guess if he throws/does a high, walks back to make you poke so he can whiff punish, or does a d4.

This is generic on all cast but don't press buttons after his pokes on hit.

The major fad going on now is that all outtake cages like to do d1 amplified rising shoulder on block. Set Cage in practice mode doing this and learn to see it and block high. There is no reason to fast poke back after cage pokes you on block as he has no fast mid, so just wait a bit and you'll catch a rising shoulder attempt.

Just to add to this...


I beat Liu Kang because the player becomes predictable. To play Cage well, you have to make good reads which means paying attention. The more unpredictable you are, the better you'll do.

 

[DrFolmer]

FYI 12 still whiffs on Cage but no more full combos for predicting f43

 

[Name v.5.0]

Anyone else ever try F43 against opponents that know to back walk after plus frames? I know a lot of times it can be death, but man....if you sneak it in at the right time, you'll hit that KB.

Is it worth it? I dont know...but it's fun.

 

[M.D.]

I got literally destroyed every time I tried it )

Also, just saw Jacqui has 34% unbreakable restands in her third variation any time she wants (because meter doesn't count ,that's the answer we got when we said amplified forceball +6 requires meter). She also ignores neutral whenever she wants and still has 9 frame mid staggers.

Where are the twitter posts about this? Complaints? Top tier placements?

WHERE ARE THEY TWEEDY? SONIC? RYE? A? A?

CAGE OUTTAKE TOP1 BOYZ

fuks sake

 

[thlityoursloat]

I got literally destroyed every time I tried it )

Also, just saw Jacqui has 34% unbreakable restands in her third variation any time she wants (because meter doesn't count ,that's the answer we got when we said amplified forceball +6 requires meter). She also ignores neutral whenever she wants and still has 9 frame mid staggers.

Where are the twitter posts about this? Complaints? Top tier placements?

WHERE ARE THEY TWEEDY? SONIC? RYE? A? A?

CAGE OUTTAKE TOP1 BOYZ

fuks sake

because all it takes to be a broke tier is one safe special. Just one, no context needed.
One safe special? Top 5. Bam.

 

[DrFolmer]

Anyone else ever try F43 against opponents that know to back walk after plus frames? I know a lot of times it can be death, but man....if you sneak it in at the right time, you'll hit that KB.

Is it worth it? I dont know...but it's fun.

I do something where I "drop" the combo after NP launcher. So you got your usual f344 nutpunch combo starter, and I like to dash 2 into f4 nutpunch reset usually. Buuuuut if I delay it again it will whiff of course, and f4 itself has quite some recovery to it - and in this current meta where people just mash jab starters on wakeups, lets just say it has caught some pretty good players off guard LUL

 

[Name v.5.0]

I do something where I "drop" the combo after NP launcher. So you got your usual f344 nutpunch combo starter, and I like to dash 2 into f4 nutpunch reset usually. Buuuuut if I delay it again it will whiff of course, and f4 itself has quite some recovery to it - and in this current meta where people just mash jab starters on wakeups, lets just say it has caught some pretty good players off guard LUL

Very nice. Thank you for the idea.

This is what I'm after here. I want to elevate the character. Same thing I was after when I posted that Nut Punch KB guide. We have this fucking KB...we need to figure out how to use it. I refuse to just let it sit there.

Let's get unpredictable. Lets create a scenario where we actually get to use this thing. We can't keep playing the same way.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Seriously, guys. Please tell me something.
Am I the only JC who's 90% of games end up boiling down to either whiff punish d4 with b3 or catch jumps with f3? You have characters like Noob, Kabal, Frost, Texas man with guns, and several others whose downpokes outrange yours so much that you can't counterpoke most of the time, and John Smith from KL knows this, so he just procedes to machine gun d4s in the neutral. I start clipping them with b3 then they start jumping, and then it just boils down to b3 to catch the lowpoke or f3 to catch the jump, and you can't be wrong because committing to either can get you FUCKED. b34 is horrible on whiff and f3 is a slow ass fucking HIGH in a game where highs are fucking riskier than full screen armored moves.
Don't tell me to grab because JC the top 1 character has the worst grabs in the game without a doubt. Neither give any oki so you can't ever afford to throw someone out the corner, or throw someone who outzones you. No KBs either.
inb4 rising star is safe.

 

[M.D.]

Seriously, guys. Please tell me something.
Am I the only JC who's 90% of games end up boiling down to either whiff punish d4 with b3 or catch jumps with f3? You have characters like Noob, Kabal, Frost, Texas man with guns, and several others whose downpokes outrange yours so much that you can't counterpoke most of the time, and John Smith from KL knows this, so he just procedes to machine gun d4s in the neutral. I start clipping them with b3 then they start jumping, and then it just boils down to b3 to catch the lowpoke or f3 to catch the jump, and you can't be wrong because committing to either can get you FUCKED. b34 is horrible on whiff and f3 is a slow ass fucking HIGH in a game where highs are fucking riskier than full screen armored moves.
Don't tell me to grab because JC the top 1 character has the worst grabs in the game without a doubt. Neither give any oki so you can't ever afford to throw someone out the corner, or throw someone who outzones you. No KBs either.
inb4 rising star is safe.

All my games boil down to spamming d4 in hope for a hit, so i can do f3/throw or f344 into back to d4 spam.

Because everyone picks female chars and walkback pokes non stop.

I'm not even trolling.

 

[thlityoursloat]

All my games boil down to spamming d4 in hope for a hit, so i can do f3/throw or f344 into back to d4 spam.

Because everyone picks female chars and walkback pokes non stop.

It's not just females, Scarlet for example isn't so bad because her d4 is actually just a lowpoke and not a pocket low profiling dr. fate db2.
I can think of Shao d4, Kung Lao d3, Scorpion, Sub Zero, Kitana, Shang who has a d4-like move than COMBOS, Jade d4. It has nothing to do with hurtboxes, it's just that d4s in this game are insane, most have so much range and pushback that they're a win-win on hit or block, and pretty much can't be jumped because lowprofiling is a good mechanic.
Ugh, I didn't have to deal with this shit in Injustice.
And NO, d4 rising star is not a thing because the rising star will whiff at the distances you'll be d4 poking.

 

[Orochi]

I don't know about top 5 but of all the characters I've picked up he's the one I've had most success with early on. He can play so lame with a life lead and going in vs johnny's 3rd variation is kind of scary. Maybe it's just my play style on why I'm doing good with him, and I can actually anti air for once in this game with his standing 1.

 

[DrFolmer]

Don't tell me to grab because JC the top 1 character has the worst grabs in the game without a doubt

Whoah Brochocho, be careful what you say around here. It almost sounded like you were gonna state something blasphemous like that Johnny gets no oki on a throw, and that it's essentially resetting neutral, and that the "duuuude everything he does leads into plusframes and strike throw mixup loops" is bullshit. What's next? You gonna say that people can, what - backdash 124 and whiff punish? haha what a story Mark

 

[DrFolmer]

I got literally destroyed every time I tried it )

Also, just saw Jacqui has 34% unbreakable restands in her third variation any time she wants (because meter doesn't count ,that's the answer we got when we said amplified forceball +6 requires meter). She also ignores neutral whenever she wants and still has 9 frame mid staggers.

Where are the twitter posts about this? Complaints? Top tier placements?

WHERE ARE THEY TWEEDY? SONIC? RYE? A? A?

CAGE OUTTAKE TOP1 BOYZ

fuks sake

Tweedy plays Jacqui homie. He thought that the 3-4 % dmg nerf killed the character lul

 

[DrFolmer]

I don't know about top 5 but of all the characters I've picked up he's the one I've had most success with early on. He can play so lame with a life lead and going in vs johnny's 3rd variation is kind of scary. Maybe it's just my play style on why I'm doing good with him, and I can actually anti air for once in this game with his standing 1.

Damn Im spamming the shit out of the thread lul

He is a great defensive character when people have to respect his projectile game. It's so intuitive to just walk back and react to your opponent. Naturally, defensive players will do excellent with him. I came from IJ2 playing Green Lantern, and JC is the closest thing I have to that archetype.. MAAAAAAAAN I miss b1

 

[Tundra81]

I came from IJ2 playing Green Lantern, and JC is the closest thing I have to that archetype.. MAAAAAAAAN I miss b1

They definitely play similar and I fucking love me some Green Lantern. I feel I may be in the minority but I love Injustice just as much as MK. GL was my dude in both IGAU and 2 (plus a little Nightwing and Atrocitus). I2 had a really good sweet spot, GL had just gotten a significant damage buff, OCL (MB) became +6 and they basically deleted Deadshot from the game. Up until Starfire and Atom were released that game was so fucking fun. B1 Boulder baby, nobody blocks it <3

 

[Error404]

I don't think it's the character. The entire game feels like poke vs throw. Mids that are fast enough to stop staggers are not common.

 

[Orochi]

I used to play Green Lantern as well now it makes sense.

 

[heildan]

I also used to play GL in both Injustice games. I'm seeing a pattern here.

 

[Tundra81]

Great minds think alike fellahs

 

[thlityoursloat]

Great minds think alike fellahs

I mained Bane. Lol.
I just pick the characters I find the coolest and manage with what they have.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

Played Doomsday, Aquaman, and GL in IGAU, just GL in I2.

Fuckin weird...

 

[Name v.5.0]

I mained Bane. Lol.
I just pick the characters I find the coolest and manage with what they have.

I feel you. I literally picked up Aquaman in Injustice 1 because Aquaman was a joke to the entire world. Got lucky and he turned out to be top tier. Mained Grodd in i2....That sucked.

 

[thlityoursloat]

I feel you. I literally picked up Aquaman in Injustice 1 because Aquaman was a joke to the entire world. Got lucky and he turned out to be top tier. Mained Grodd in i2....That sucked.

If you still mained him in I2 you'd have been more heartbroken.
COme to think of it, I also played BA, whom I'd say plays faaairly similar as well, at least post-patch.