What's new

MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
I think I just need to figure out how to balance both variations because I want to play Outtake. I think what I'm running into is if I find myself struggling in a MU with Outtake I immediately run to Showstopper. I think I need to just tough it out come up with a solid game plan with Outtake because right now I feel a little lost TBH. I can't seem to find that right balance of when to zone and when to go in.
Exactly! We have to tough it out, because if we just want to win, we'll fall back on our mains, but we also won't learn anything and we can't learn if we don't lose with it and test that works and what doesn't in real matches.

But also, look into running long sets with someone, it helps figure all that out.
 
I think I just need to figure out how to balance both variations because I want to play Outtake. I think what I'm running into is if I find myself struggling in a MU with Outtake I immediately run to Showstopper. I think I need to just tough it out come up with a solid game plan with Outtake because right now I feel a little lost TBH. I can't seem to find that right balance of when to zone and when to go in.
If you can zone the other player, you don’t go in. This variation is all about forcing the opponent to come to you and honestly you should probably be using the forceballs like this in the other variations if possible too. Why engage in close quarters kombat if you don’t have to?
 
xxmq.xq. im3
I don’t understand what you want from Outtake. The forceballs are only mid from the proper range. If you back up a little this doesn’t happen. This is Kitana outplaying you.
Absolutely false. At that range they are mid on males. But because netherealm has much better fucking priorities like fixing cages hitbox instead- this shit happens. Yay for broken ass female hitboxes! Because that's part of the game right? Morons.
 
Kitana is a monster now.

Also this doesn't help:

View attachment 15996

View attachment 15997
Exactly what i was fucking saying. If they were mid for 70 percent of the screen instead of 20 this wouldn't be a fucking problem. Not to mention having a female hitbox reduces that range to 10 percent... This is some extremely high IQ and intelligent design right? Not like we have fucking trained monkeys as game designers.


They should look at this inconsistent shit and be embarrassed. But apparently it adds depth BRO!
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
If Cage would work on all cast as he does on Kotal, he'd be a very VERY viable character.

Whenever someone mentions hitboxes, I can't for the life of me understand the argument "yea but he's s tier vs males".

SO WHAT?

How the hell does that help me vs females?

I honestly can't believe someone could be that dense to catalog inconsistency as balance design.

Dude, just nerf the shit out of him, make everything minus, I don't care. All I want is when I pick him, it works the same versus ANY opponent.


Also in my pics it's not the forceballs that are the problem, is kitana low profiling everything during the low fan toss and amplified fan toss. It was posted as a follow-up when I said Kitana is a nightmare now. Her third variation has 3 very viable KBs, staggers, safety, ultra zoning, 50-50s and on top of it all, she low profiles when she zones.

Coupled with the female hitboxes that shits on the other stuff Cage has, it makes this matchup horrendous. 4-6 at least.
 

Sanjo

Noob
You guys very often mention cage's hitbox problems but you never mention his weird hurtbox problems. He has probably the smallest crouch block hurtbox off all the cast, including females . For instance, Noob's f2 completely whiffs unless you make him block something right before f2. It's really strange. Don't you guys know that or you are just happy about this clear anomaly?
 
Dude, just nerf the shit out of him, make everything minus, I don't care. All I want is when I pick him, it works the same versus ANY opponent.
You essentially have this with Outtake. Harping on whiffing with this variation is really disingenuous and of course you will have to adjust your gameplan when you fight different characters. That’s a fighting game. And I’m not saying he doesn’t have matchups that aren’t in his favor but everyone does. The fact is that Johnny is super viable now. Take it or leave it.

As a bonus, I present you with Sonic’s Outtake Johnny fighting Scar’s Sonya.

 

heildan

NANI?!
You guys very often mention cage's hitbox problems but you never mention his weird hurtbox problems. He has probably the smallest crouch block hurtbox off all the cast, including females . For instance, Noob's f2 completely whiffs unless you make him block something right before f2. It's really strange. Don't you guys know that or you are just happy about this clear anomaly?
It was said to be fixed in those last patch notes btw. I agree, these hitboxes are weird. I would really love some consistency across the cast.
 
You essentially have this with Outtake. Harping on whiffing with this variation is really disingenuous and of course you will have to adjust your gameplan when you fight different characters. That’s a fighting game. And I’m not saying he doesn’t have matchups that aren’t in his favor but everyone does. The fact is that Johnny is super viable now. Take it or leave it.

As a bonus, I present you with Sonic’s Outtake Johnny fighting Scar’s Sonya.

I saw a hell of a lot of full screen whiffing mid fireballs. Lol, defending this shit is stupid. Everybody has unfavorable matchups? How much of the cast loses to every female due to a game breaking- yes GAME BREAKING whiffing issue that the imps of a balance team refuse to fix. Lololol, yeah folks got bad matchups- but not to THIS degree and not THIS much of the roster. Boi
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
You essentially have this with Outtake. Harping on whiffing with this variation is really disingenuous and of course you will have to adjust your gameplan when you fight different characters. That’s a fighting game. And I’m not saying he doesn’t have matchups that aren’t in his favor but everyone does. The fact is that Johnny is super viable now. Take it or leave it.

As a bonus, I present you with Sonic’s Outtake Johnny fighting Scar’s Sonya.

Before coming here sounding off like a pro know it all with arguments at least check them out to be true:


Forceballs still whiff on females just the same when cancelled from his most used strings AND ON DIFFERENT ranges than on males.
It's still 12 matchups of character not working the same.

If I have to adjust the gameplan, I would like to adjust HOW i use my moves, not IF i use my moves.

And nice try with that video. Most of it is Scar testing out the third variation drone call and getting punished for it.
Literally 90% of Sonic's openings were from drone calls or drone cancels.
I follow Scar very closely as a pro player because he's one of my favorites and it's clear when he tests stuff out vs when he plays to win in tournament.

Please show me examples of videos of actual pro gameplay where Cage wins majors and destroys the MAIN character/variation of a pro opponent in tournament.

As I said before, can't wait for the next major.

P.s. Cage was always viable. You can, and I did, and a lot of Cage mains did, beat people just with d4 f3/throw, d4 f344.
Hell, people made it to demigod with this character. Nobody said he wasn't viable.
I've beat Cassies, Sonyas, Frosts, with 10 throws and one combo.

Btw. They have NOT FIXED his normals whiffing on crouch block on females. On ALL variations.
Standing 1 still whiffs on crouch block.

Hey look, I play Cage. An they picked Cassie. Let me do f3, then try 124, or 12autoshimmy. Or try 1 staggers. Can I do it? NO!
WHY? Because nobody gave a fuck to fix the hitboxes. They see me doing it while blocking (where they should have been hit) and just mash d2 yolo and win.
So what can I do? throw,throw,throw, throw, throw, like a broken record.

Sure, it works, but why the hell do I want to do that?
Who the hell enjoys playing with d4 and throw? I would like to use ALL my character please. What about Shock Jock? What, I should just not use that fuck it, right?

That was the point all this time. Not if I win or lose, or the viability. The fact that I want to use Cage, not d4throwman in 12 matchups.

Hitboxes randomly not working IS A BUG NOT A FEATURE.

Hell, they even admitted it themselves when they fixed Kang's whiffing issues against Cage.

You do realize how hypocritical that is?
 
Last edited:

Sanjo

Noob
Or maybe it's not a bug and Johnny, being a lady's man, would go easy on women. That's why he is super strong vs males and have troubles against females....that's what you get for maining Johnny "pretty boy" Cage!
 

Wigy

There it is...
many pros have cage v3 in top 3. can anyone elaborate why?
Don't see it at all.

Think fox is just stirring the pot, a bunch of Kang players were using him to downplay the stupidity.

He's good, new variation could be even better but think these comments are baseless or with an agenda so far, it was happening prepatch and now this possibly stronger variation is stoking flames on the fire.

His other variations just got worse with his hurtbox nerfs as well.
 
Don't see it at all.

Think fox is just stirring the pot, a bunch of Kang players were using him to downplay the stupidity.

He's good, new variation could be even better but think these comments are baseless or with an agenda so far, it was happening prepatch and now this possibly stronger variation is stoking flames on the fire.

His other variations just got worse with his hurtbox nerfs as well.
Tweedy also saying, along with many others.

I think it is bc she is very similar to cassie prepatch in terms of safety. I am not sure he has a cassie 111 string though? an auto shimmy?
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Tweedy also saying, along with many others.

I think it is bc she is very similar to cassie prepatch in terms of safety. I am not sure he has a cassie 111 string though? an auto shimmy?
12 is an autoshimmy but it's not as hitconfirmable. 121 in the corner though is insanely strong because it can be confirmed easy into very very high damage.
Well, yeah, he's like Cassie, except his mids are worse, and he doesn't have low profiling zoning.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
No 111.

He has a perfect frame autoshimmy (perhaps the best framewise in the game) in 12 / 1throw.

However you cannot use it in 12 matchups as 1 whiffs on crouch block so you can only enforce it after a d1 confirm, which has a 2 frame window.

But hey what do i know right? TOP1BOYZZZ
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
many pros have cage v3 in top 3. can anyone elaborate why?
Some have had Showstopper in their top 3 for a while. However that was a little more mixed in reception. Now that we have the new Outtake variation, a lot more pros are under the impression that he's top 3 or even the best character in the game.

Rising Star has many similarities to Cassie's glow kick without the glaring weakness of it being flawless blockable. It is also an incredibly fast mid that is safe on block, and has significant pushback as well. It means Cage has many more opportunities to set up whiff punishing as a result. Furthermore, it's properties allows for a very annoying d1 guessing game akin to Cetrion's poke into wall stuff - just without the punishable factor.

It seems d1 guessing games are highly valued in tier discussions. It was one of main arguements behind why Jax is so hard to get off because d1 bf2 amp is unpunishable. Top that off with a fast projectile for excellent fullscreen keep away (for matchups like Sonya and Cetrion), it can be problematic to 'get in' on him given that rising star amp is not really 'ending his turn' so to speak.

And this is just added on top of his good footsie buttons. And this is generally the main selling points of this guy being top 3 (or even top1) according to pros.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Hmmm..didn't the new flawless block nerf make flawles blocking cassie's kick ultra hard now?

The Flawless Block cooldown window after entering block can no longer be circumvented after you successfully blocked something & continued to hold the block button or quickly input another action before blocking