MK1 Patch Notes

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

I was playing Liu/Lao for a while and switched to Raiden/Jax a bit before the patch. I'm not saying Liu is better than Raiden now, but I'm probably switching back to Liu.

 

[rifraf]

One thing that makes me feel a bit better is a hefty part of the kommunity+content creators seems to be against overnerfing the game into oblivion, and has mixed feelings about this patch. It could push NRS to take balancing a bit more seriously and put more work into it. Hopefully.

To the players that are on the fence about buffs and probably prefer seeing nerfs, I'd like to say that I get you and even though many of us want to see undeveloped characters/kameos being buffed, none of us wants the game to become a joke. We're all more or less competitive players here so that's not something I'd want to see watered down. At the same time, the game needs to be fun and creative. It's a delicate balance and it needs to be a fun balance.

 

[Ilthuain]

The patch changes were really minor. Scaling changes, meter cost changes, and slightly different combo routes.

"Creativity" isn't impacted at all, Cyrax is still good, you can still use 2 kameos in a combo... people are hella overreacting.

 

[Eji1700]

Lol, Dave literally never recovered from the low guns Nerf.

To be fair that’s zoning heroin

 

[rifraf]

The patch changes were really minor. Scaling changes, meter cost changes, and slightly different combo routes.

"Creativity" isn't impacted at all, Cyrax is still good, you can still use 2 kameos in a combo... people are hella overreacting.

I think what makes many players to overreact as you mention, is not necessarily the changes themselves that happened in the latest patch but the balance pattern/philosophy NRS seems to have for this game. As other's have already mentioned, it seems quite sterile(safe) and I would dare to say, lazy.

 

[Blakfellow]

I think what makes many players to overreact as you mention, is not necessarily the changes themselves that happened in the latest patch but the balance pattern/philosophy NRS seems to have for this game. As other's have already mentioned, it seems quite sterile(safe) and I would dare to say, lazy.

Exactly.. I don’t know how people don’t see this..

nerfing the top to the ground instead of making other kameos/ characters stronger is just a lazy balancing approach that makes the game stale in the long run.

 

[chrisisnice]

I think what people tend to lose perspective about is the game is not made for competitve people - it is made for the casuals. That is where 99% of the revenue comes from. Sure, they want to make both happy, but if Cyrax was causing too many issues for casuals online, it was inevitable they would significantly nerf him.

I remember them doing that to a character in MKX or MK 9 that was fairly low teir (I forget who/which one - Jaqui maybe?). Casuals were having massive difficulties online with one move (projectlie spamming maybe?). They nerferd it, they ended up even shittier in the competitive space, but casuals could deal with her.

It seems to me that this is all just a big overreaction. The sky is not falling Chicken Little!

 

[BarakaTile]

I remember in MK11 they nerfed Sheeva stomp which was fine but as a bonus they gave her 950 health because... Reasons.

Exactly.. I don’t know how people don’t see this..

nerfing the top to the ground instead of making other kameos/ characters stronger is just a lazy balancing approach that makes the game stale in the long run.

They don't want to see it. In their minds the problem is fixed.

The sky isn't falling, everything is completely fine now.

Spoiler

Until the next broken thing comes along to make people cry.

 

[M2Dave]

Exactly.. I don’t know how people don’t see this..

Baraka/Cyrax and Raiden/Cyrax PTSD. LOL.

Ironically, this patch benefits zoning characters because the majority of characters who benefit from the Kung Lao kameo are zoning characters (i.e., Liu Kang, Reiko, Shang Tsung, possibly Sindel), but by principle, I cannot support a patch that mindlessly removes options in an unbalanced manner.

The apologists who do support this patch will learn their lesson once they have the capacity to realize that Kung Lao is this version's Cyrax.

 

[nxn]

I think what people tend to lose perspective about is the game is not made for competitve people - it is made for the casuals. That is where 99% of the revenue comes from.

You can say that about every single fighting game. The competitive scene is just an advertisement, MK isn't special in any way here.

Anyway, I don't care about perfect balance, there will always be a few characters that are better at the game's meta than others. I just want to hover over a character and assume they have some purpose in the game that makes them worth learning/picking up.

After this patch I kinda feel like there's no reason to pick/learn Baraka right now. As an example, I think Ashrah is better at every single thing Baraka tries to do right now. She's got amazing neutral buttons, pressure that starts all the way from midscreen with that plus on block projectile that also jails into dash+F2, every button looks like an anti-air that you can convert off of, she's got a fucking flash parry, and she gets 40%+ damage from every hit confirm in her move list -- so she even has overall better damage than Baraka. I haven't even started to look into dark stance yet either.

So what purpose does Baraka have now compared to that?

Anyway, after a month of people bitching about Ashrah I'm sure the Omniman patch is going to do the same thing to her. NRS balancing is like watching a lava lamp.

Edit: But hey, maybe the broken DLC Kameos will make some low-tiers relevant, crossing my fingers.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

I think what people tend to lose perspective about is the game is not made for competitve people - it is made for the casuals. That is where 99% of the revenue comes from. Sure, they want to make both happy, but if Cyrax was causing too many issues for casuals online, it was inevitable they would significantly nerf him.

I remember them doing that to a character in MKX or MK 9 that was fairly low teir (I forget who/which one - Jaqui maybe?). Casuals were having massive difficulties online with one move (projectlie spamming maybe?). They nerferd it, they ended up even shittier in the competitive space, but casuals could deal with her.

It seems to me that this is all just a big overreaction. The sky is not falling Chicken Little!

Did they nerf Jacqui full auto? But yeah you are right they nerf for casual engagement, you’ve got to keep them around to buy all the dlc even though most of them still drop off after 6 months.

 

[chrisisnice]

The apologists who do support this patch will learn their lesson once they have the capacity to realize that Kung Lao is this version's Cyrax.

Moving past the condescending tone, I think we are all clear about Kung Lao most likely being the next Cyrax. He will get nerfed too - there is no doubt. I am not going to sit around having a sookery because there was a change to a character that everyone was complaining at length a couple of days ago. Lao will get nerfed if need be, as will Johnny, Ashrah who seem to be the other two people complain about.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

You can say that about every single fighting game. The competitive scene is just an advertisement, MK isn't special in any way here.

Anyway, I don't care about perfect balance, there will always be a few characters that are better at the game's meta than others. I just want to hover over a character and assume they have some purpose in the game that makes them worth learning/picking up.

After this patch I kinda feel like there's no reason to pick/learn Baraka right now. As an example, I think Ashrah is better at every single thing Baraka tries to do right now. She's got amazing neutral buttons, pressure that starts all the way from midscreen with that plus on block projectile that also jails into dash+F2, every button looks like an anti-air that you can convert off of, she's got a fucking flash parry, and she gets 40%+ damage from every hit confirm in her move list -- so she even has overall better damage than Baraka. I haven't even started to look into dark stance yet either.

So what purpose does Baraka have now compared to that?

Anyway, after a month of people bitching about Ashrah I'm sure the Omniman patch is going to do the same thing to her. NRS balancing is like watching a lava lamp.

Edit: But hey, maybe the broken DLC Kameos will make some low-tiers relevant, crossing my fingers.

Some of the commentators were saying how they are not seeing some of the players blow up some of ashrahs strategies like meeting her in the air for her sword shoryuken amongst other things.

No need to study match ups when you can ask for nerfs instead and be appeased lmao.

 

[M2Dave]

Moving past the condescending tone, I think we are all clear about Kung Lao most likely being the next Cyrax. He will get nerfed too - there is no doubt. I am not going to sit around having a sookery because there was a change to a character that everyone was complaining at length a couple of days ago. Lao will get his, as will Johnny, Ashrah etc

True.

Bring on the nerfs!

I can hardly wait to play another fighting game in which the top 5 are unique characters while many others do low pokes, jabs, and throws.

MK11 Nightwolf was so fun, guys. Cannot wait to play like that in MK1.

 

[Gooberking]

I think what makes many players to overreact as you mention, is not necessarily the changes themselves that happened in the latest patch but the balance pattern/philosophy NRS seems to have for this game. As other's have already mentioned, it seems quite sterile(safe) and I would dare to say, lazy.

I'm going to self project on the last bit and I do realize this a disproportional reaction and may not be totally in line with the intent, BUT

This was a sizable set of changes for a game that is a month in. This isn't the first round of patching, it's just the first one that is more behavior and QoL stuff than "oh shit bug!" stuff, and this includes a fare amount of that stuff as well. They are not sitting around being lazy. While they might be pretty tired from being forced to push out a release that shows large signs of being politically forced out the door before anyone making the thing really wanted, they still seem to have done quite a bit of work trying to remedy that so far. It's a work in process. I hesitate to use the word "iterative" to describe the current situation they and players are stuck living with at the moment, but I'll use it. They almost certainly didn't get done everything they wanted. At some point they have to make a call on what is going in, and what is going later. To make the call on what is practical in a "what can we do to make things better the day after ETC" world.

At this point I'm likely walking away from dev work, largely because it doesn't matter at all how much you get done. Not really. Inside people, out side people, both sides people, somebody somewhere is going to see you did a,b,c,d,e,f, and g and immediately start asking why we didn't get to 'M'. It gets kind of exhausting trying to make people understand how long something takes who clearly aren't equipped to understand. And that's when it's good. We know NRS was overworked horribly for MK11, it was actual news. Something was going on with this game and it looks like they are playing catch up. Feel how ever you want to feel about the how it currently plays or the decisions that seem to be getting made, but lets not forget this game isn't done. If they were listening once, they are still listening, and not be too crazy hard on the people with the boots on the ground making the things. They are still there doing the work

 

[BarakaTile]

Moving past the condescending tone, I think we are all clear about Kung Lao most likely being the next Cyrax. He will get nerfed too - there is no doubt. I am not going to sit around having a sookery because there was a change to a character that everyone was complaining at length a couple of days ago. Lao will get his, as will Johnny, Ashrah etc

When everyone in the roster is bone dry then surely the game will be fun for the whole community at that point.

It's especially annoying because how many months to years did we have to hear "MK11 is so boring and tame. This game has no dirt. The gameplay isn't cool." And you have the opportunity for that in MK1... And we're already applauding for nerfs and looking for the next thing to get adjusted downward. Now it's Lao, Now it's Johnny (But it always was Johnny), Sareena, Ashrah etc etc.

If that's what you all want to do, fine. But Apologize to MK11 first.

 

[chrisisnice]

When everyone in the roster is bone dry then surely the game will be fun for the whole community at that point.

It's especially annoying because how many months to years did we have to hear "MK11 is so boring and tame. This game has no dirt. The gameplay isn't cool." And you have the opportunity for that in MK1... And we're already applauding for nerfs and looking for the next thing to get adjusted downward. Now it's Lao, Now it's Johnny (But it always was Johnny), Sareena, Ashrah etc etc.

If that's what you all want to do, fine. But Apologize to MK11 first.

I am not sure where the idea of being an apologist comes from. I am just not going to sit here getting hysterical becasue Cyrax got dumped on.

I do not particularly want to see anyone get nerfed, but it is inevitable in any fighting game that there are buffs / nerfs. If they find out they went overboard, they will probably fine tune him.

MK11 is a different game with a completely different meta - you cannot even try to compare the two in that aspect. I did not like the game from when it came out. The mechanics sucked to begin with - the nerfs / buffs could not fix an already shit game. It was always bland.

If you want to sit around and have a pity party about a character everyone was complaining about 2 minutes ago, be my guest, but I am not going to sit around complaining that the game is ruined because of it. That is not being an apologist , it is simply not being alarmist.

 

[rifraf]

I'm going to self project on the last bit and I do realize this a disproportional reaction and may not be totally in line with the intent, BUT

This was a sizable set of changes for a game that is a month in. This isn't the first round of patching, it's just the first one that is more behavior and QoL stuff than "oh shit bug!" stuff, and this includes a fare amount of that stuff as well. They are not sitting around being lazy. While they might be pretty tired from being forced to push out a release that shows large signs of being politically forced out the door before anyone making the thing really wanted, they still seem to have done quite a bit of work trying to remedy that so far. It's a work in process. I hesitate to use the word "iterative" to describe the current situation they and players are stuck living with at the moment, but I'll use it. They almost certainly didn't get done everything they wanted. At some point they have to make a call on what is going in, and what is going later. To make the call on what is practical in a "what can we do to make things better the day after ETC" world.

At this point I'm likely walking away from dev work, largely because it doesn't matter at all how much you get done. Not really. Inside people, out side people, both sides people, somebody somewhere is going to see you did a,b,c,d,e,f, and g and immediately start asking why we didn't get to 'M'. It gets kind of exhausting trying to make people understand how long something takes who clearly aren't equipped to understand. And that's when it's good. We know NRS was overworked horribly for MK11, it was actual news. Something was going on with this game and it looks like they are playing catch up. Feel how ever you want to feel about the how it currently plays or the decisions that seem to be getting made, but lets not forget this game isn't done. If they were listening once, they are still listening, and not be too crazy hard on the people with the boots on the ground making the things. They are still there doing the work

I get what you're saying. However, if the game is not done yet and its in an "iterative" state as you describe, then they should at least bring that up somehow with their community. It's 2023, and taking the silent approach I feel does more harm than good. If your product is half-baked and your patches are half-baked and your communication is not here or there, then you're clearly not doing any favors to yourself.

 

[Gooberking]

I get what you're saying. However, if the game is not done yet and its in an "iterative" state as you describe, then they should at least bring that up somehow with their community. It's 2023, and taking the silent approach I feel does more harm than good. If your product is half-baked and your patches are half-baked and your communication is not here or there, then you're clearly not doing any favors to yourself.

They are definitely iron lipped about everything all the time. Literally uncontested, bottom 1 on communication

 

[rifraf]

They are definitely iron lipped about everything all the time. Literally uncontested, bottom 1 on communication

Yeah, they open themselves up to people like me to call them lazy, amongst other things.

 

[BarakaTile]

I am not sure where the idea of being an apologist comes from. I am just not going to sit here getting hysterical becasue Cyrax got dumped on.

I do not particularly want to see anyone get nerfed, but it is inevitable in any fighting game that there are buffs / nerfs. If they find out they went overboard, they will probably fine tune him.

MK11 is a different game with a completely different meta - you cannot even try to compare the two in that aspect. I did not like the game from when it came out. The mechanics sucked to begin with - the nerfs / buffs could not fix an already shit game. It was always bland.

If you want to sit around and have a pity party about a character everyone was complaining about 2 minutes ago, be my guest, but I am not going to sit around complaining that the game is ruined because of it. That is not being an apologist , it is simply not being alarmist.

You keep talking about Cyrax as if that's what I care about and not Baraka's unnecessary damage and movement nerf. I didn't so much as touch Baraka/Cyrax and yet his overall nerfs hurt him more than it did Cyrax who is still a usable Kameo. That doesn't give a good first impression on how future balancing will go in MK1.

No the game isn't ruined you drama queen, But I do worry the community is going to fuck it up. In fact I worry for Nitara who DID get buffed and I think people are going to complain about her in due time. And then the cycle repeats and what do ya know she's nerfed.

 

[Lex Luthor II]

I mained Raiden/Cyrax and Baraka/Cyrax because I'm bad and now I can finally go back to Reptile and other characters. And be bad with them without feeling bad about myself. So the patch is a win for me.

I feel like the game is in a good place right now. I can deal with everyone except for Kenshi when his ghost is out.

 

[colby4898]

I was playing Liu/Lao for a while and switched to Raiden/Jax a bit before the patch. I'm not saying Liu is better than Raiden now, but I'm probably switching back to Liu.

You know you can play both right?

 

[kabelfritz]

"MK11 is so boring and tame. This game has no dirt. The gameplay isn't cool."

who did ever say that? mk11 was ridiculously cheap, the whole game had single-layer offense where you were always 1 button away from the next 50/50.

i seriously cant believe people call mk1 "dry" because they actually have to work a little for their openings. people wanted strong footsies in mk for over a decade and here they are, yet now one-touch 25% blockstrings into 500 damage are the good, creative and fun thing and every character should be buffed to that level? i surely would quit, id find that dead boring. its also hard to believe the "pro" players are jumping on that glorification-of-cheapness wagon, i really dont get it, they should know better.

i think many people need to play out this patch and see that this is actually good and helps way more interesting strategies than before develope and surface, because its all there, it was just buried under barakarax until know.

but i agree with everyone that johnny/lao will be the new problem. might not even be johnnys fault, laos hat still just recovers too fast.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

You know you can play both right?

No point. The only thing that really attracted me to Raiden was Jax damage. My only little bit of character loyalty belongs to Ermac and he's not out yet.