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MK1 Patch Notes

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Yes, while Baraka is now nowhere to be seen, Nitara and Sub Zero are still trash
Nitara is definitely not trash.

I think people just haven't seen good Nitara players before, like Aphrodite and Deoxys. Been watching them beat good players for weeks now.

High-execution, so it takes someone skilled, but in the right hands she's a PITA to deal with.
 

ReD WolF

Lord of the Drip
Raiden is still good, Reiko still good, Nitara was buffed/fixed, etc. And kameo diversity is up. I'm seeing Kano now, Lao, Goro, Sareena, Sub etc. as opposed to constant Cryax helicopter.

I feel people are still overreacting a bit and the majority of the changes were good for the meta.
I agree with you that you do see more diversity in kameos to some degree and that's a good thing for the game. I also agree with the statement you made on the podcast about how balancing is a difficult and delicate act. But you have to admit, the last patch did shit on Baraka and Cyrax to the point where they just aren't fun to use anymore and probably not viable from a competitive standpoint. There was definitely a middle ground that could have been reached, but they knee jerked the fuck out of that one and I believe it directly ties into what @Rodney Quillz was saying in regards to the mentality of the modern day fighting game player/consumer. We shall see what the future holds.
 

ReD WolF

Lord of the Drip
Also your post absolutely needs to be pinned and NRS is absolutely going to do that because there’s more players who don’t lab match ups than there are players who do.

I cannot say this enough, why would you learn actual match ups and spend anytime doing any kind of work when you can just complain and get your way? If even the slightest thing gives me trouble and I’m convinced it’s unfair I’m not going to try to learn how to beat it I’m going to ask for nerfs lmao.

even when I started beating Baraka with Johnny the minute I fucked up a parry input or got caught with b3 and took 50+ I was like “wtf NERFS” because i had went so long thinking that shit was unfair it didn’t even matter that I knew how to beat it I subconsciously STILL wanted nerfs even though it was unwarranted at that point because it wasn’t an issue anymore.

Remember full auto Jacqui? Everyone knew you could walk inbetween the bullets but that shit was annoying so people asked for nerfs, people don’t want to learn, they want to win and win without difficulty.

The worst part is after this Johnny business is over there will be somebody else to flock to that all the tier whores will start using and you’ll see all of these people who claimed that most of the cast was “easy to deal with” atleast in comparison to cage, will be right back here complaining all over again once a new crop of characters becomes popular to use by everyone online.
Great post. I feel the same way. Top tier characters are like weeds, you chop one down and another one will grow in its place. You see it happening in real time as well which is amusing. It seems like a lot of modern day fighting game players are in a perpetual state of carrying pitchforks and torches. I myself, bitch and get salty when I get crushed by something I perceive as "OP" I think that's part of the competitive spirit, but once I take the time to lab and problem solve, characters always become more beatable. I want to see more grit!!
 
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Great post. I feel the same way. Top tier characters are like weeds, you chop one down and another one will grow in its place. You see it happening in real time as well which is amusing. It seems like a lot of modern day game fighting game players are in a perpetual state of carrying pitchforks and torches. I myself, bitch and get salty when I get crushed by something I perceive as "OP" I think that's part of the competitive spirit, but once I take the time to lab and problem solve, characters always become more beatable. I want to see more grit!!
Bro I’m dead serious. They have complained so much about Johnny since the last patch to the point where they are 100% confident in him getting chopped and now have moved on to other characters.

Im hearing complaints about Laos armored move, Stryker Kameo, Mileenas damage, Ashrah, Reikos ninja stars, apparently they are STILL not done with Raiden.

They are trying to get this shit burned down early so maybe they can get those last nerfs for the last dlc release lmao.

Can’t be Fujin v Fujin if EVERYBODY sucks and is mediocre right? Like I said before, this shit don’t stop lmao.
 

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
Nitara is definitely not trash.

I think people just haven't seen good Nitara players before, like Aphrodite and Deoxys. Been watching them beat good players for weeks now.

High-execution, so it takes someone skilled, but in the right hands she's a PITA to deal with.
Especially now that her Blood Sacrifice doesn't hurt her more than it can reliably help/heal. Unless you EX it, you have to actually land her Bite special to heal within the time limit of the buff being active which can sometimes be rough to do. With the original health cost to activate it was possible to not be able to gain back the significant health cost and be hurt worse by your own healing move which is just laughably bad. 5% is much more reasonable to be able to repay the cost of the buff and still actually HEAL from your healing move. Now the argument of "she has 900 hp because she can heal" is valid as opposed to before when it was ALWAYS a case of "can she though?".
 

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
BTW, I enthusiastically support this much needed buff and I have an irrational and unreasonable hatred of the character so I am FAR from saying the above out of bias in her favor. The only thing that keeps me from being like "she can be a dumpster fire for all I care" is respect and sympathy for her fans who finally have her again after really, really wanting her back for so long. Just for clarification on the degree of my preference for buffs not nerfs, lol.
 

mrapchem

Noob
If NRS knew how to do slight nerfs while also buffing other characters Cage could be nerfed as Xombat suggested and he’d still be fine. But you’re crazy if you don’t think he’s a top tier character. Also, people don’t know how to fight against most characters in this game. They refuse to lab MU’s and just complain.
I specifically said a 'Top 3 character'. He's obviously a top tier character, but when people say he's the Number 1 character yet we keep seeing him lose to Raiden and other top/high-tier characters, that's a sign that he is likely being upplayed due to not enough time to fully flesh the match out.
 
I specifically said a 'Top 3 character'. He's obviously a top tier character, but when people say he's the Number 1 character yet we keep seeing him lose to Raiden and other top/high-tier characters, that's a sign that he is likely being upplayed due to not enough time to fully flesh the match out.
Remember all those killer Barakas we were supposed to see in Tournament? It was just Cyrax.

Baraka got 100% upplayed.
 
This might be a weird take, but I feel like Johnny needs an overhaul. He has his star mode which seems totally unused. That to me screams that his design is just borked. He's (arguably) the best overall character in the game...with an entire mechanic that hardly ever gets used at all. Like...huh?? How did they miss the mark on him that bad?
 

trufenix

bye felicia
I for one am shocked that having nerfed the previous top tiers in this patch, a new top tier emerged. I believe NRS should do something about this, and they should definitely take this top player I now agree with's ideas more seriously than they did a week ago.
 
This might be a weird take, but I feel like Johnny needs an overhaul. He has his star mode which seems totally unused. That to me screams that his design is just borked. He's (arguably) the best overall character in the game...with an entire mechanic that hardly ever gets used at all. Like...huh?? How did they miss the mark on him that bad?
I feel like star power is way easier to use offline, the links are pretty tight if you are not doing it raw, most of his links go into NP and if you are late and it whiffs you are taking BIG damage.
 
Baraka is still good but his mains haven’t had to play the game until now so they need a minute to learn the concept of not having safe braindead blockstrings ad infinitum
A lot of them were fighting for their life during ECT in the comments across social media downplaying and demanding nerfs for other characters lol.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I agree with you that you do see more diversity in kameos to some degree and that's a good thing for the game. I also agree with the statement you made on the podcast about how balancing is a difficult and delicate act. But you have to admit, the last patch did shit on Baraka and Cyrax to the point where they just aren't fun to use anymore and probably not viable from a competitive standpoint. There was definitely a middle ground that could have been reached, but they knee jerked the fuck out of that one and I believe it directly ties into what @Rodney Quillz was saying in regards to the mentality of the modern day fighting game player/consumer. We shall see what the future holds.
Baraka not viable?


Again, I think people are overreacting. Over time, some people who like him will still play him, and then people will be surprised that the character is viable, as usual. Because they formed their opinions already from the patch notes.
 
This might be a weird take, but I feel like Johnny needs an overhaul. He has his star mode which seems totally unused. That to me screams that his design is just borked. He's (arguably) the best overall character in the game...with an entire mechanic that hardly ever gets used at all. Like...huh?? How did they miss the mark on him that bad?
Not sure overhaul is the word, but yeah it's odd. The mechanic strikes me as something that isn't supposed to be used every match, but it's something more Cage players should have to be optimizing for.

Being rewarded for knowing your routes into shadowkick so you can end the round with a taunt is an interesting skill that should matter more to distinguish the good from the great, but as is feels mostly like bonus points.

On the other side though, I don't think it should become "must use or he's trash" kind of mechanic as characters like that almost never work. There's nothing wrong with having johnny be good (hah), but it does seem like a waste of a clever mechanic that you can probably play him all the way up to the top tier and barely care about it.
 

ReD WolF

Lord of the Drip
Baraka not viable?


Again, I think people are overreacting. Over time, some people who like him will still play him, and then people will be surprised that the character is viable, as usual. Because they formed their opinions already from the patch notes.
I said probably not and we shall see what the future holds. I highly doubt Tweedy would use him in tournament post patch. I hope I am wrong. I still main him. Two things can be true at once. There is a subsect of the community that are overreacting. Also, the patch overly nerfed some things.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
For Scorpion, Dragon recommended that f32 be mid-mid, and I agree. I also think 21 should be mid-mid. I’d be happy with just these changes for Scorpion. Even though he needs far more than that, this is all I’d want to see for now.
 

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
Dragon said that? Nice. I agree Scorp (and Sub) need more, obviously, but I will take any step toward legit buffs instead of the steady nerfs those two characters get every game. They are both fun to play and both feel sooooo close to being great but just not against the rest of the cast.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes

I like Dragon, some stuff I'd have no issue with but I'm gonna pass on some of these suggestions.

I think Scorpion F32 mid is a boring idea for a change.. like you just get a combo/being safe on block no downside? Its not that it sounds too cheap just.. unimaginative

Both of Shujinko's punch and kick are +1? That's a plus mid with a gap for everybody. How about the punch be plus or and the mid stay as is so they both have more uses?

I think Sonya is fine and doesn't need a projectile ambush.

It's an interesting suggestion but one that Dragon caveated by saying might be broken but I've seen this suggestion made around.. Darius kick needs to stay one bar or it's going to be hard to blockable city
 
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I think Scorpion F32 mid is a boring idea for a change..
I see a lot of this in proposed buffs and nerfs. You can make a character good without making them interesting, and i'd like to see more buffs focusing on getting tools that aren't used to have a purpose and have that fill gaps in their gameplan.

Related, I'm 100% against sareena double knife going away if you hit her/the main character/whatever. There's already routes for people to full combo punish and that kind of nonsense is absolutely the sort of thing that a good assist SHOULD do. Just buff her single knife/flip kick to get those used a bit more, or nerf the cd of the double knife a tad and she's in a pretty good place.