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MK Deception Tier list Discussion Thread

I do have yet another question, I've been playing with Kira a lot also and though she is somewhat of a beginner leveled character, because she took the best styles from both Kano and Sonya in MKDA, to me some attacks are quick, but not that high in damage. and I saw in that MK Destruction vid that her damage in combos is powerful enough, and the special moves robbed from sonya and kano were still useful. I ask that is it fair that she is the lowest tier character in the game?
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Yes.

She lacks the constant pressure and damage that the truly good characters have. She is a counter-based character who is easily sidestepped.
 

NobilityV3

Smalls deep.
Shock said:
Courtesy of Konqrr:

PS2/X-BOX:
01. Bo' Rai Cho
02. Noob-Smoke
03. Dairou
04. Kobra
05. Scorpion
06. Darrius
07. Liu Kang
08. Shujinko
09. Mileena
10. Raiden
11. Jade
12. Baraka
13. Tanya
14. Kabal
15. Ashrah
16. Hotaru
17. Nightwolf
18. Ermac
19. Kenshi
20. Sindel
21. Li Mei
22. Havik
23. Sub-Zero
24. Kira

GAMECUBE:
01. Bo' Rai Cho
02. Noob-Smoke
03. Kobra
04. Scorpion
05. Darrius
06. Liu Kang
07. Mileena
08. Raiden
09. Jade
10. Shujinko
11. Baraka
12. Tanya
13. Kabal
14. Dairou
15. Ashrah
16. Hotaru
17. Goro
18. Nightwolf
19. Ermac
20. Kenshi
21. Shao Kahn
22. Sindel
23. Li Mei
24. Havik
25. Sub-Zero
26. Kira
Wow i thought Noob-Smoke would be first.
 
Konqrr said:
The best 50/50 mixup in the game using Smoke. The smoke cloud can be done on top of your opponent and can be used to run the clock out turtling like hell. The unbreakable combos leading to mixups on wakeup. All of the free throws which lead to at least 40% every time.
I'm pretty much a n00b at this game and i was wondering if someone could explain to me what smokes mixup is and what moves lead to free throws and 40% damage combos. I usually play sub-zero but i get murdered as i'm not well versed in the tactics/techniques of this game. Thanks
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
TheImmortalMan said:
Konqrr said:
The best 50/50 mixup in the game using Smoke. The smoke cloud can be done on top of your opponent and can be used to run the clock out turtling like hell. The unbreakable combos leading to mixups on wakeup. All of the free throws which lead to at least 40% every time.
I'm pretty much a n00b at this game and i was wondering if someone could explain to me what smokes mixup is and what moves lead to free throws and 40% damage combos. I usually play sub-zero but i get murdered as i'm not well versed in the tactics/techniques of this game. Thanks
With Smoke:

1. u+4, d,b+2 (Star Projectile), d+1, b+1, walk up into throw or u+4 (as a 50/50 mix up since the throw is an unblockable high and u+4 is a mid hit).

If throw connects:

2. f,f+4, Star, d+1, b+1.

If u+4 connects:

see combo No. 1.

Everything (except the initial u+4 juggle starter in the first combo) is completely unbreakable here leading into constent and unbreakable 50/50 mix ups all over again.In other words,they duck,they eat u+4 (the mid attack into the combo).They stand and block,they eat the throw (an unbreakable and inescapable high attack).

If you want free throws (or if you want to use infinite combos) simple walk up and side step into throw after each b+1:

u+4, d,b+2 (Star Projectile), d+1, b+1, walk up, side step, throw (into the combo after the throw you saw above), walk up side step, throw, repeat.

The throw is un-duckable because your opponent faces the oposite direction after b+1.

Oh,and check the notation for the star projectile.I think it's d,b+2,though.I'm not too sure since I'm mostly playing MK:A now anyway.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
PauLWaFFleZ said:
Why is Ermac so low? No 50/50 mix ups or w/e it is? Unsafe low attacks?
Poor 50/50 mix ups compared to others.However,he does have some nice (inescapable) combos.

Don't get too compliacted with MK:D.It is the simplest 3D fighting game you'll ever play.In MK:D,if you don't have great 50/50 mix ups to keep your opponent in check,you're probably a mid-tier or lower.

BRC, Darrius, Noob-Smoke, Kobra, etc. all have easy 50/50 mix ups and un-breakable throws that lead to 50/50 mix ups.

The exception is Dairou. He doesn't really have what the others have. However,when you basically have a 15 frame full-screen juggle starter that also glitches at times and hits moves that have an aerial status to them,you don't need much else.

These characters set such high standards that some other characters can never beat them in a series.That is especially the case with Dairou and BRC.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
Ermac shouldn't be that low, he's an upper mid easily. His Hua Chuan owns big time along with his Axe mixed up with his Choy Lee, I used him a lot on xbox live and was very good with him. Ermac is the man.


Bo and Dairou then N/S own the whole game though as far as top 3 tiers.
 
Ermac is strong in Deception. After doing TKS, then you can do a great 30% combo with uppercut, then another TKS. You can't do an infinite with it, I think. Bo Rai Cho is still strong in Deception with the Puke Puddle. N/S is in the top three characters.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
MKF30 said:
Ermac shouldn't be that low, he's an upper mid easily. His Hua Chuan owns big time along with his Axe mixed up with his Choy Lee.
Ermac is only truly good online with the whole "Lag Advantage" thing that MKD is plagued with. But offline, he suffers. There is no online tier list as most of the middle tier is up in the air as to who is better...online is messed up.

Dairou offline is even more broken LOL
 
konqrrs right...i could easily get a 6 or 7 hit 42% combo all the time with the axe...online that is....still good offline too
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
Konqrr said:
MKF30 said:
Ermac shouldn't be that low, he's an upper mid easily. His Hua Chuan owns big time along with his Axe mixed up with his Choy Lee.
Ermac is only truly good online with the whole "Lag Advantage" thing that MKD is plagued with. But offline, he suffers. There is no online tier list as most of the middle tier is up in the air as to who is better...online is messed up.

Dairou offline is even more broken LOL
Yeah, Dairou is pretty damn powerful offline as well as online lol

Ermac though, I don't know dude I've had pretty big success with him offline and online. He was toned down in MKA with the mid 46% that doesn't always connect unless you're near a corner and also losing Hua Chuan. That was such a great style. :)
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
Definitely ^ however not the only one, MVC 2 is even more broken...lol
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
MvC 2 is broken but deep, and that is what seperates it from a 50/50 mix up fest like MK: D.

MK: D is without a doubt one of the worst 3D fighting games ever created.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
MK D is a fun game, but I really wish they had that parry system. If it had that the game would be soooo much better it's not even funny.

My order personally:

In terms of balance:

MK:DA #1 3D MK game

In terms of replay value:

MK:D #1 game, this game lasted WAYYY more then MKA did online for both consoles...

In terms of additions for gameplay to help:

MKA #1, the wake up and parries helped out a lot and totally eliminate the 50/50 offense constantly. Of course you can still go for it, but like most fighting games unlike MKD you can either see it coming and parry or avoid it.

MVC2 is a fun game, but there are also infinites that I wasn't even aware of that Malone told me wayy back, then I read more online and tried some of the tricks...definitely broken.

MK:DA and MK:A should be the top two 3D MK games that are chosen for a tournament style IMO. MKD is fun, but everyone would be picking Bo, Dai or N/S not a doubt in my mind.

Just like online, if there was an MKA tournament ban KAK, MOB, Goro and Kintaro. Characters that are too big and can't juggle and the KAK is just a nobrainer obviously...

Some might even put up a stink about Sareena but Dairou can counter her easily IMO.

MK:DA though is just a very well balanced MK game, also has only a few infinites compared to MKD and MKA.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
MVC2 is a fun game, but there are also infinites that I wasn't even aware of that Malone told me wayy back, then I read more online and tried some of the tricks...definitely broken.

It is very unlikely that you did because MvC 2 infinite combos are nothing like MK:DA, MK: D, MK:A infinite combos.

In fact, I had MvC 2 on my PS2 a long time ago, and I couldn't perform those infinite combos that people told me to try.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
m2dave said:
MVC2 is a fun game, but there are also infinites that I wasn't even aware of that Malone told me wayy back, then I read more online and tried some of the tricks...definitely broken.

It is very unlikely that you did because MvC 2 infinite combos are nothing like MK:DA, MK: D, MK:A infinite combos.

In fact, I had MvC 2 on my PS2 a long time ago, and I couldn't perform those infinite combos that people told me to try.
LOL, I never said I was successful at them :p I just said I tried them and understood why they're infinites.

In the end, an Infinite is an infinite but I do understand that in some fighters, it's more difficult then others. (exam:UMK3, MVC2 much harder to do then MKA's, MKD's) There are some other things in that game you can do in the MVC games that make them broken besides the air infinites that malone told me about wayy back on the mic but I can't remember what they were. He's a huge SF guy on the MKO boards out of just about everyone on there.

I don't know how much you play the SF/SFA/MVC games but I did have the opportunity to play malone once on xbox in SF3 and SFA he killed me...it wasn't even funny, the guy definitely knows what he's talking about when it comes to fighters and especially SF games.

You know who he is right? The dude that went to last years E3 to play MK and such. Very nice fellow.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
Yeah, no problem. I think we were just stating points on fighters in general.



:)
 

RoGE

Noob
MKDA and MKSM would be the 2 best 3d MK games that would be good to use in tournys IMO

On topic: every every character broken in MKD or is that just Bo and Dai?
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
MK:SM isn't a real fighting game though, and personally although that's a great MK adventure game with a hot engine, nobody would play it as far as the fighting mode is concerned.

It's fun but I'd rather play the real 3D fighting games MK:DA, MKD, MKA etc

MKA can be played well too but there has to be some ground rules first, I'm probably one of the few players that can handle if not beat those players that use AC, 33 constantly...I don't believe in using them, too easy to get extra damage IMHO...I just make sure I don't allow my foe to bait me into those situations.

MK:DA and MKD that's not a problem obviously because of the poor jumping mechanic, but MK:DA I would pick out of those two for sure.