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Mileena General Discussion

Does anyone use Khanum Dash? It seems ok Maybe but not good enough to give up launcher.
While I love the animations of Kahnum Dash, it IS trash. No dmg, its mixup is trivial to fuzzy, it is unsafe on block, slow to start up and actually start low-profiling stuff, doesn't combo from all strings, cancel is incredibly slow... list just goes on. It doesn't give anything back for taking away your launcher.
 

Raider

Noob
Exactly. It's like 10 times worse ability compared to ball roll that doesn't really add anything. Even when you amplify it twice the damage is laughable.
 

Vhozite

Jade Worshipper
I suck, but the more I play her the more hit a run Mileena seems like the look for me. Sai are an insanely good projectile, and f124 sending the opponent near full screen compliments a Sai-heavy style. Another thing I noticed is that all her side switching really helps with being cornered. Opponent chases you across the stage and she has so many options to switch sides and make them start all over again.

She doesn’t seem flashy but I’m doing well enough at the bottom of KL with her basic shit.
 
Does anyone use Khanum Dash? It seems ok Maybe but not good enough to give up launcher.
I play Twisted Sister (V2) 98% of the time. It does have low damage and doesn’t launch but it just seems to fit her MK11 design to me which is a pesky lil fly that won’t leave you alone.
 

Parasurama

Dragon
I think Mileena is pretty good. My suggestion would be that the ball roll moves faster (between start and end) and gets a better anti air hitbox . It can remain 13 frames but it should move quicker so that it is able to punish very negative moves that have push back like Sub Zero, Jade, Johnny, Liu Kang, Cassie (shoulder), Geras, Shang (ground eruption).
 

Vhozite

Jade Worshipper
I think Mileena is pretty good. My suggestion would be that the ball roll moves faster (between start and end) and gets a better anti air hitbox . It can remain 13 frames but it should move quicker so that it is able to punish very negative moves that have push back like Sub Zero, Jade, Johnny, Liu Kang, Cassie (shoulder), Geras, Shang (ground eruption).
I think punishing certain things is the intended use of Khanum Dash. It’s moves very far fairly fast and the slide animation seems to indicate it would/should be good for low profiling things. Unfortunately it’s too slow getting into the slide part of the animation and it does laughable damage so it’s not really good for anything. Until it gets real buffs I can’t see myself using it and will stick to Rolling Thunder.
 

Espio

Back To Basics
Lead Moderator
Khanum dash is what I call trading gold for aluminum. I don't know what the reasons are, but there's a lot of moves like that...Jade has one of those with her projectile staff spin parry. The same principle applies in that you lose one of your best specials that gives you a boost (in Jade's case glow to a vastly inferior parry and for Mileena her combo launcher for a still unsafe, attack).

Getting rid of moves that define characters and are strong or at least decent is wild as is, but to be something that seems more like a detriment to equip than an asset is hogwash. I'd use a lot of custom moves for Mileena, but that will never be one of them for me lol
 

Vhozite

Jade Worshipper
Khanum dash is what I call trading gold for aluminum. I don't know what the reasons are, but there's a lot of moves like that...Jade has one of those with her projectile staff spin parry.

Getting rid of moves that define characters and are strong or at least decent is wild as is, but to be something that seems more like a detriment to equip than an asset is hogwash.
I suspect moves like this existed as a roundabout way of balancing variations before we got customs. They aren’t supposed to be better than the moves they replace...they were intended to prevent the use of strong base kit moves along with certain strong variation options.

Jade reflect, sub shoulder, and Kitana razors (tho this one ended up being really good), all replace great base kit moves and are also paired with great other custom tools (Deadly assassin, amp ice ball, and Half-blood stance). I’m sure there are other examples.

Of course I don’t have any actual proof of this theory, but I’ve seen devs balance games like this before. Khanum Dash was probably meant be paired with something the devs were afraid of being OP like Vanish.
 

Espio

Back To Basics
Lead Moderator
I suspect moves like this existed as a roundabout way of balancing variations before we got customs. They aren’t supposed to be better than the moves they replace...they were intended to prevent the use of strong base kit moves along with certain strong variation options.

Jade reflect, sub shoulder, and Kitana razors (tho this one ended up being really good), all replace great base kit moves and are also paired with great other custom tools (Deadly assassin, amp ice ball, and Half-blood stance). I’m sure there are other examples.

Of course I don’t have any actual proof of this theory, but I’ve seen devs balance games like this before. Khanum Dash was probably meant be paired with something the devs were afraid of being OP like Vanish.
The thing is the balancing fails when the moves are so inferior to others that it is nigh impossible to justify them replacing something else. Mileena was made around with Ultimate and customs too. I understand that balancing concerns are real and valid, but we've had time to contextualize it and the move cannot be justified replacing ball roll in my humble opinion.

My point isn't that they have to be better, my point is they should be able to justify replacing another. An example of a move being good replacing/justifying another is Baraka's spine burst replacing chop chop. It's a trade off but the anti-air and safe chip capabilities justify the tradeoff even if I personally prefer having chop chop, I can objectively say, "this is my preference, but this option is great too and worth utilizing even if I don't".

Take it a different way. I can justify equipping Jade's additional strings or her low spark or pole vault, Pole Slam, anti-air glaive , amp shadow kick so I have roughly 5 choices for a third variation move that I could justify as being worthwhile and crafting different builds.


If a move is good like razors were/are then that's something where even if you don't like it, you can contextualize why someone else likes it and uses it. It gave her a safe meterless chip tool, high unbreakable damage and a 50/50 standing scenario so with that being the case you can justify losing lift ombos for a move that does so much. If Kahnum dash was as good as razors were/are I don't think it would take much to sell people on it.

TL; DR:

A move replacing a base move is not the issue. A base move being replaced with a very weak or underwhelming move simply cannot be justified as being worth equipping. I've listed a couple different examples for Jade, Baraka and Kitana to illustrate the core points and ideas.



I'm a pretty big fan of the worth of MK11 Mileena, she has a suitable and sustainable tool kit.
 

Vhozite

Jade Worshipper
TL; DR:

A move replacing a base move is not the issue. A base move being replaced with a very weak or underwhelming move simply cannot be justified as being worth equipping.
Oh I agree. My point was that bad custom moves replacing better base moves was a poor attempt at balancing variations. It’s one of the biggest reasons I hated variations in this game and dropped it a year ago. The system was never about making the best possible builds or multiple decent ones until recently.

Mileena was added in ultimate with but the design philosophy is still probably there as a leftover. In fact her custom moves besides RT, Grab, and strings are all pretty bad.m so she could really use a once over in that department anyway.
 
So what would make dash more desirable. I know people who tried the move says it needs more damage which is true IMO I just wish the cancel wasn’t full combo punishable on every block string except s3/s4. I haven’t tried every low projectile but it does low profile Liu Kangs low fireball if she gets into her slide animation.
 
More damage and a faster cancel.
While I wouldn’t mind haven’t more damage and a faster cancel is a must I say add a KB to the second meter burn option. Right now using dash takes away her b1,1,4 KB which leaves her with the universal d2 kb, f2,3 kB (which is damn near impossible to hit) and forward throw kb. Dash should also be able to combo off of 2,3,3
 

Afumba

Noob
So what would make dash more desirable. I know people who tried the move says it needs more damage which is true IMO I just wish the cancel wasn’t full combo punishable on every block string except s3/s4. I haven’t tried every low projectile but it does low profile Liu Kangs low fireball if she gets into her slide animation.
Faster cancel, more damage and her animation should low profile faster. Also the second amp should either launch or apply some sort of status effect.

A KB would be nice too.
 

Afumba

Noob
While I wouldn’t mind haven’t more damage and a faster cancel is a must I say add a KB to the second meter burn option. Right now using dash takes away her b1,1,4 KB which leaves her with the universal d2 kb, f2,3 kB (which is damn near impossible to hit) and forward throw kb. Dash should also be able to combo off of 2,3,3
Best thing would be to have the second amp stun the enemy to continue the combo and add a KB that triggers the third time you stun your opponent. Damage would be like 12%+bleed damage or something. This would simultaneous allow the b114 KB to be used outside double KB scenarios. With more damage and better cancels (or at least options out of the cancel) the move could be a nice alternative to roll/low sai.
 
It can remain 13 frames but it should move quicker so that it is able to punish very negative moves that have push back like Sub Zero, Jade, Johnny, Liu Kang, Cassie (shoulder), Geras, Shang (ground eruption).
She already has dash f1 that can cover half the screen in a flash.

Unfortunately it’s too slow getting into the slide part of the animation
This, definitely. 24f startup of just standing around and getting hit by anything, to only then start doing the actual slide...

So what would make dash more desirable.
Needs damage, more than anything else - let its role be the unbreakable option (whereas roll is the most breakable thing in the game). But it needs to do enough damage to justify giving up your 300+ bnbs and the b114 KB. Right now, you can end your combos in sais to deal more unbreakable dmg.

Make it go into the slide animation faster, so you can low-profile projectiles on reaction. Right now, regular port comes out faster and hits at full screen. Plus, the entire run part of it is pointless for anything.

I wish spending 2 bars on it did something interesting (that isn't just more dmg or a launch), but I'd rather we get some core functionality in first.
 
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Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Premium Supporter
Again, the buffs I would like to see are to her custom moves, not her base moves. The only base move changes I’d want to see are f12 special cancellable into aerial moves and f43 -6 on non-playtime version. These two buffs again would basically be buffs to customs and not so much her base kit per se.

I just want more variety in the choices I can equip.
 
Again, the buffs I would like to see are to her custom moves, not her base moves. The only base move changes I’d want to see are f12 special cancellable into aerial moves and f43 -6 on non-playtime version. These two buffs again would basically be buffs to customs and not so much her base kit per se.

I just want more variety in the choices I can equip.
Real talk what will those 2 buffs do exactly. F12~air sai won’t get you much but a knockdown unless you amp the sais which doesn’t juggle them long enough for ball role unless your close to the ground and it still depends on distance for the ball roll to hit.
Base f43 being -6 is good but you can’t cancel it and you will have to deal with the wake up mind game. The way I see it she needs more moves to be base and for NRS to design more abilities because right now choice is not something this kharacter has.