Mass shootings and drugs

[Scoot Magee]

what didn't stop the kids in CO was not Doom or drugs what didn't stop them was their parents not giving a damn about what their kids were up to in their basments. The issue with Doom and Marilyn Manson was nothing more tha a scapegoat, whcih if you do more research you will find that when they blamed Manson on the shootings, it was later discovered the kids didn't even listen to his music, also you will find when the victums' parents tried to sue the enterainment companies that produced the music, games, and movies, the judge dismissed it imeadiatly. The blaming of games and enterainment media is all on THE MEDIA itself not and conpiracies behind it, there is no fals flag operations. they blamed ENTERAINMENT MEDIA on those killings alone. They rarely ever even spoke out on the mental health or problems the two were having at the school.

Forgive me if I'm not clear. I've been at work typing hurried posts from my phone. I agree the media wants ratings and blames whatever. I also think parenting is huge, bad parenting can also lead to meds btw. Bullying is a huge factor also but instead of giving kids meds that are depressed over bullies they should crack down on the bullies themselves. They don't do that though.

 

[TheSpore]

"People will just break a law" is not a compelling or logically sound argument to not have that law. I'm not saying "ban guns." I'm saying "end the fact that people with emotional/mental issues can walk into a store and walk out with a burner." I'm sure some will turn to black market dealers, but it will be a minority.

The whole field of psychiatry needs an overhaul, and the pharmaceutical industry needs to have less of a hand in it. Issues need to be worked out with therapy, and chemical imbalances need to have medication prescribed carefully (which is not the case today). I know some shooters were pushed over the edge by their medication, but a psychological issue is the underlying problem, and most are not given the help they truly need.

I agree with you here for the most part, but I also do believe that their are mental illness cases that do require the use of medications as well. Crazy can't always be cured. As for guns well I do agree we need a stricter policy on background investigations and in all honesty something is going to happen eventually, because sooner or later something will have to happen. I'm against the ban of guns, but I am not against the tracking and better restrictions required to purchase one.

Forgive me if I'm not clear. I've been at work typing hurried posts from my phone. I agree the media wants ratings and blames whatever. I also think parenting is huge, bad parenting can also lead to meds btw. Bullying is a huge factor also but instead of giving kids meds that are depressed over bullies they should crack down on the bullies themselves. They don't do that though.

You are seeing my point thank you and I understand your being pretty quick with responses. Bad parenting in general leads to many negative things, yes parents need to better educate themselves before agreeing to prescribe their child crazy pills. at the same time their are many cases where the meds may be needed.

My concern is that many believe the best way to resolve a mental illness is catch it early. However when you have achild who is still growing and developing meds may be the wrong way to go. In order to treat the disease it has to be assessed that there is a disease in the first place and often times I see parents quickly allowing their child to be placed on some form of meds that do more harm than good to a growing child. Those are the parents that typically cannot control their child, nor give a damn about them, they just want them to have lil johnny to stop being hyper adn whaat not. I believe that minors need more and more testing done before the conclusion that meds are the answer. Many of these meds have extremely long term effects on a growing body.

 

[nwo]

As a psychology student who has studied about these kinds of things I have to say the pharmaceutical industry is absolutely horrible and greedy and they're there 80% for your money and maybe only 20% to help you. These things keep happening yet it's always pushed off to guns/video games/marijuana/rap music. The connection isn't just correlational, the side effects of anti-anxiety/depression drugs in particular can be horrible.

Wow revolver, I finally agree with you on something.

 

[TheSpore]

Wow revolver, I finally agree with you on something.

The end time have begun the 7th seal has been broken

 

[Rip Torn]

Sort of off subject but don't ever take Chantix (Varenicline) to quit smoking. It's linked to high rates of depression, suicidal thoughts, and actual suicides. I've had multiple friends say they became severely depressed after taking the drug. There are much better ways to quit that don't involve feeling depressed all the time and possibly causing you to commit suicide.

It's insane that this drug is still on the market, imo.

 

[True Grave]

One reason why ADD and ADHD is bullshit is to keep your child's mind dull and inactive.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Here's the fucked up thing. A lot of cases of bad parenting can be fixed with good parenting. Any form of good guidance can prevent children from becoming depressed and ect. The problem is they just quick fix the problems children have with drugs that only cover the real issues.

 

[TheSpore]

Sort of off subject but don't ever take Chantix (Varenicline) to quit smoking. It's linked to high rates of depression, suicidal thoughts, and actual suicides. I've had multiple friends say they became severely depressed after taking the drug. There are much better ways to quit that don't involve feeling depressed all the time and possibly causing you to commit suicide.

It's insane that this drug is still on the market, imo.

An old Navy buddy I know took something called Zyban and it actually worked and didn't give him any long term issues, but then again that guy was already an idiot.

The only way to quit smoking is cold turkey or get some nic patches

 

[TheSpore]

One reason why ADD and ADHD is bullshit is to keep your child's mind dull and inactive.

FInally somebody is using their brain

 

[Scoot Magee]

The shit economy where both parents have to work contribute also.

 

[Scoot Magee]

ADD is not a real disease or disorder.

 

[True Grave]

FInally somebody is using their brain

That's the glory to America. Keep us dumb and enslaved consciously so that we amu never ascend to our own personal greatness. Not to mention the United States (which according to the term of law, means "Corporation" to our country America) was founded to be the fall guy when WW3 happens. Think about it.

Sent from my Brain via Tapatalk 4 chip. Ding! Team IJS --» www.injusticesociety.com

 

[Konqrr]

Scoot Magee was on nyquil when he wrote this

 

[Relaxedstate]

Alcohol is absolutely not one of the most dangerous drugs. as the drug itself, these drugs are far more dangerous to ones self and others than alcohol. The difference is that drugs are prescribed and controlled so that users only take a certain amount. It's not even a correlation. Many of these drugs have actual negative side effects on people. It just usually happens person to person and in so many of these cases like listed in the op the users were wrongly prescribed or given too much of something without enough behavioral therapy. Because the right thing usually doesn't make these companies and doctors the same amount of money.

Yeah, it's not the only factor in violence and murder. But saying the pharmaceutical industry doesn't need a significant change is absolutely wrong. There's no good reason not to.

I mean alcohol is pretty damn dangerous. It is easily abusable and much stronger statistical correlation to physical harm (self and otherwise), than SSRIs, or stimulants (which is almost nothing, all the cases involved Ritilin, Adderal, or Modafinil, should be thrown away as it speculative BS). Also, governmental drug regulation has almost nothing to do how 'abusable' a drug is. Definetly not regulated by scientific evidence that is....

There are A LOT of problems with pharma companies, mostly with power, money and ethical practices. It is however a pretty big stretch to say that their 'greed' somehow leads to mass murder lol. They need restructuring, but that is a whole other issue.

 

[Relaxedstate]

ADD is not a real disease or disorder.

ADHD is over-diagnosed and over-prescribed for. But it is in fact 'real'.

That being said even non-ADHD persons who use stimulant drugs like ritilin adderal or pro-vigil will get cognitive benefits.

 

[Scoot Magee]

ADHD is over-diagnosed and over-prescribed for. But it is in fact 'real'.

That being said even non-ADHD persons who use stimulant drugs like ritilin adderal or pro-vigil will get cognitive benefits.

So is everything else. Too much profit in drugs for corruption to not exist. Part of the reason for this thread.

 

[TheSpore]

So is everything else. Too much profit in drugs for corruption to not exist. Part of the reason for this thread.

That's part of the reason I believe there will never be a cure for cancer or the disease I suffer from (diabetes), they make shit tons of money off people.

Now Relaxedstate ADD and ADHD is highly over diagnosed its like the fall back plan for parents when the doctor has no answer t why there kids can't focus or act too damn hyper, because you know there FUCKING KIDS every kid has fucking ADD or ADHD which is why it cannot be treated until the child is at an age where this can properly diagnosed.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Good psychiatrists don't seek to prescribe drugs to their patients, but if talk therapy hasn't worked, then drugs are the only solution left. Your argument is that the drugs are making them do it? They're not mentally ill? Wouldn't a smarter solution be not to give guns to mentally deranged people? The alternative you're suggesting is not to give psychiatric drugs to mentally deranged people, which makes no sense. Give them guns, but not pills that do help millions of other people, without incident.

The point is that mental illness and guns should not mix, and I don't see psychiatrists, patients, or most nra members saying they should. The only people who subscribe to the opposite of that belief, and who would like to continue to see deranged people be afforded the same rights as stable, law abiding gun owners is the head of the nra, gun sellers, and gun manufacturers. Getting rid of the right to own guns, or getting rid of all psychiatric medication are equally stupid suggestions, but so is allowing and advocating for mentally deranged people to be able to own guns.

Your thread proves my point: deranged people, with gun access, sometimes commit mass shootings, knifings. The fact that they're on medication is as irrelevant as saying they play Call of Duty or Mortal Kombat. Lots of people are on medication, play Call of Duty, Mortal Kombat, and don't commit mass killings. The most harmful link is that they're deranged and have guns, not that they're deranged and play video games, or they're deranged and are on meds. Even if they knifed people, and didn't shoot them, statistically your odds of surviving/evading that kind of attack would be better than surviving/evading a gunman. And, it would be easier for police to take down a deranged "knifeman" than a gunman. So, don't bring up the "hey, should we stop them from owning knives, too?" No. There's a reason you don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

To be honest, I copy pasted this article on my iphone only trying to include the names and drugs of the shooters. Whatever link was at the bottom was unintended, especially if it advocates giving guns to mentally unstable people in any way. I don't think mentally unstable people should have weapons.

With that said, what would be considered too mentally unstable to own a gun?

If a person was ever once considered mentally unstable (A rough divorce, death in the family and ect) at one point in there life should it still apply? Would the person ever be considered cured and then allowed to own a firearm again?

If people NEED medication to alter their thoughts at all should they be able to own a gun even if they don't have a violent history? Considering they must be diagnosed with something in order to get the drugs legally.

If a person has a "mild condition" why should they get drugs over real therapy? A good conversation does a lot.

I just think there's way too many variables to bring mental health into background checks, it's one of the reasons the congress voted it down. Not to mention doctor and patient confidentiality will be out the window.

Also this man who shot up the navy yard should have had his guns taken away when he shot some guys tires out over a parking spot. Maybe if laws were enforced correctly it would prevent some of these shootings.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Good psychiatrists don't seek to prescribe drugs to their patients, but if talk therapy hasn't worked, then drugs are the only solution left. Your argument is that the drugs are making them do it? They're not mentally ill? Wouldn't a smarter solution be not to give guns to mentally deranged people? The alternative you're suggesting is not to give psychiatric drugs to mentally deranged people, which makes no sense. Give them guns, but not pills that do help millions of other people, without incident.

The point is that mental illness and guns should not mix, and I don't see psychiatrists, patients, or most nra members saying they should. The only people who subscribe to the opposite of that belief, and who would like to continue to see deranged people be afforded the same rights as stable, law abiding gun owners is the head of the nra, gun sellers, and gun manufacturers. Getting rid of the right to own guns, or getting rid of all psychiatric medication are equally stupid suggestions, but so is allowing and advocating for mentally deranged people to be able to own guns.

Your thread proves my point: deranged people, with gun access, sometimes commit mass shootings, knifings. The fact that they're on medication is as irrelevant as saying they play Call of Duty or Mortal Kombat. Lots of people are on medication, play Call of Duty, Mortal Kombat, and don't commit mass killings. The most harmful link is that they're deranged and have guns, not that they're deranged and play video games, or they're deranged and are on meds. Even if they knifed people, and didn't shoot them, statistically your odds of surviving/evading that kind of attack would be better than surviving/evading a gunman. And, it would be easier for police to take down a deranged "knifeman" than a gunman. So, don't bring up the "hey, should we stop them from owning knives, too?" No. There's a reason you don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

EXACTLY.

I'm a med student studying to be a psychiatrist, and this is most def a heated topic.

There are some occasions where therapy, relaxation techniques (yoga, meditation, exercise) can work, but there are some patients who in a critical mental condition to where they are not stable. Lifestyle changes, attitude changes do not help, medication is a must. It controls them and lets them live a better life. With these medications come possible risks, such as suicidal thoughts, although they don't state this, but I personally believe if they have the drive to kill themselves, they may have the drive to kill other people.

Guns and Mentally unstable patients do not mix. Not only that, patients who are mentally stable and are taking some form of anxiety, depression, etc medications are not deemed crazy or unstable, but sometimes the medicine can cause suicidal thoughts. Sadly, some people do commit suicide, while others, especially ones who have access to weapons, shoot themselves or kill people.

Some prescriptions have these side effects, as well as some clearly stating not to operate machinery or drive in the following X amount of hours until the effects wear off.

 

[redeyes]

 

[CrazySlasher]

OP is absolutely right. A lot of medical professionals have abandoned hard work for handing out pills like candy. This is coming from someone who works in the field.

 

[juicepouch]

The problem with these issues is that there are many multiple contributing facorts outside of guns and drugs or violent media. Its parenting for one if parents were raising there kids andpaying attention to them this can help to prevnt these actions, but that is a small factor.

Another factor is bullying, many of the listed cases the OP made are victims of horrid bullying, the two Columbine kids is a big example, bullying has been linked multiple times to suicide and many cases of murder, but again only a tiny factor, let us look at a case that is very outside this spectrum.

Recently in LA a 9 year old kid shot his grandmother in the head witha weapon and its mainly being blamed on his playing GTA 4. Her is the questions to ask rather than claim the game made this kid do it.
1. Why was the child able to have access to a deadly weapon in the first place.
2. Why weren't the parents properly teaching this child about safe handling of a weapon, for the child did claim he though it was a toy.
3. Why is a 9 year old being allowed to play a video game meant for people baove the age of 17.
This case did not involve drugs, but the child still committed murder.

We are focused too much on facet of the problem when we need to view the larger picture.

Asking these questions would shift blame onto the parents and family, and Lord knows that we just can't have that. Why take responsibility for your own actions when you can just as easily blame someone or something else?

 

[catscratch]

Seriously?

Just because event A precedes event B, doesn't mean event A causes event B.

These people were on drugs for a reason. If we assume that having a mental disorder makes you more predisposed to commit mass shootings, then what is more likely, that the assailants committed those shootings because of an underlying mental condition, or because they were being medicated for that condition, and the medication caused that behavior?

Also, you are grouping totally different drugs together. Most commonly used anti-depressants today are SSRIs, and some of the older ones are MAOIs. Ritalin is an amphetamine, Xanax is a benzodiazepine, and all of these are totally different in the way they affect the nervous system. Grouping all drugs together and saying that they cause people to kill is like grouping all cars together and saying they cause people to commit intentional vehicular homicide.

The one moral I see here is: keep guns out of the hands of insane people. Closing gun control loopholes and instituting more thorough background checks is sensible, and is already being done.

Also, changing the stance that the media uses to portray these incidents, and making sure that they don't glorify them, is another step that could be taken - though of course, this leads to a bigger debate as to what role anybody should have in the regulation of media content. Frankly, I think the media is going to do whatever the hell they want, and if we support the idea of media freedom - I mean, well and truly support it - then it's not our place to regulate them regardless.

It's a complex issue. Don't jump to conclusions.

 

[juicepouch]

Nice work Scoot. If you look at the insert of these drugs/vaccines it makes you wonder why people put this toxic shit in their system.

You get scurvy because you lack vitamin C.

You're not depressed because you lack Zoloft.

And another thing, good luck getting off this shit once you're dependent on it. People say it's worse nicotine.

Anyone with the actual training may prove me wrong on this one (as I'm admittedly not the most well versed on this subject):

Isn't depression caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that a drug like Zoloft is meant to remedy? So a person may not be depressed because they don't have Zoloft, but they may be depressed because they don't have the correct chemical balance that Zoloft could provide?

 

[juicepouch]

It's a complex issue. Don't jump to conclusions.

I like this best. There's a lot that we need to learn about each contributing factor in these shootings beyond meds and external influences through popular media