Mass shootings and drugs

[Scoot Magee]

American children take 80% of the worlds add medications. Does that not bother anyone?

 

[Scoot Magee]

There is a difference between finding a correlation and finding an actual cause. I'm not aware of the statistics myself, but if more people do in fact go on killing sprees while on medication, that still means almost nothing. All that would prove is the fact that more people have gone on killing sprees while medicated; whether or not the medication is the cause of their behavior is an entirely more difficult thing to prove and requires taking every possible variable into consideration. You've basically taken a step in the right direction, but then stopped there thinking you had an answer.

If every time you are sad, it rains, you don't say "see, it rains when i'm sad, therefore me being sad is causing it to rain". I forget which logical fallacy that is, but it is one.

It's not more people on meds doing mass shootings... Every mass shooter has been medicated.

 

[Doombawkz]

Name a no motive mass shooting where medication wasn't involved. Also why when guns were easier to obtain and drugs weren't a huge factor was there no mass shootings of this type.

I'm not talking domestic violence, not shootings with motives, not terrorist, it's no motive random shootings.

Not to mention the side effects of these drugs are available for people to read. Thoughts of suicide anyone?

Mass-persecution of the Jewish people during the holocaust, where over 3,000 of them were lined up on walls and shot to death to fulfill a political agenda every day. I don't wanna be that guy, but pretty much every war and extremist mass-shooting had nothing to do with medication usage, in fact most military cases involving mass shootings have ties to illnesses in which, if medicated properly, would've prevented them.

If you narrow it down, the average New York gang-affiliated slum have several mass-shootings and none of those are based around medication so much as territory and respect.

You mean the same things that the other hundreds of millions or billions of people deal with every day and the medication assists them in getting through it? Once again, you are labeling outliers an extreme circumstances, which by far and large is not the usual case. I'm tempted to call you an idiot, but I think its become apparent thus far and goes without saying.

If you want to make your case solid, find something less circumstantial. Prove to me that its the medicine, not the illnesses which have caused similar occasions throughout history, that are causing it. Otherwise, go back to your hovel and leave the trolling to people with class.

 

[ZigZag]

I was expecting a GTA V Post... then things got dark.

 

[Relaxedstate]

This thread should be closed immediately. STORMS CrimsonShadow

Medications provide significant help to millions of people. Your argument is filled with fallacious, offensive, and dangerous presumptions.

Edit: The source of the written article is Mike Adams, a known sensationalist and conspiracy theorist. He has no professional credentials. Please do not let him persuade you to hold irrational beliefs or enable his kangaroo politics.

 

[insomnia_ftw]

It's not more people on meds doing mass shootings... Every mass shooter has been medicated.

I doubt that, but whether or not it's true still doesn't prove anything. Again, correlation does not imply causation. There are SO many more things to consider other than just the fact that these people took some form of medication. What mental illness did they have? What was their childhood like? How was their current life? How did their families treat them? Who did they look up to? How long have they been on the medication? The list of variables can go on. You don't just compare 2 things and get a legit answer for something like this.

Like I said, you researching the correlation between medication is a step in the right direction. That's all it is though. Research more if you want to come up with a more scientifically sound judgement.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Mass-persecution of the Jewish people during the holocaust, where over 3,000 of them were lined up on walls and shot to death to fulfill a political agenda every day. I don't wanna be that guy, but pretty much every war and extremist mass-shooting had nothing to do with medication usage, in fact most military cases involving mass shootings have ties to illnesses in which, if medicated properly, would've prevented them.

If you narrow it down, the average New York gang-affiliated slum have several mass-shootings and none of those are based around medication so much as territory and respect.

You mean the same things that the other hundreds of millions or billions of people deal with every day and the medication assists them in getting through it? Once again, you are labeling outliers an extreme circumstances, which by far and large is not the usual case. I'm tempted to call you an idiot, but I think its become apparent thus far and goes without saying.

If you want to make your case solid, find something less circumstantial. Prove to me that its the medicine, not the illnesses which have caused similar occasions throughout history, that are causing it. Otherwise, go back to your hovel and leave the trolling to people with class.

Yet what you describe involves a motive.

Again give me 1 example of a sick person, never medicated went off on a mass shooting out of nowhere.

I don't think hitler had neighbors that said "I never would have thought he would kill all those Jewish people".

 

[Doombawkz]

Yet what you describe involves a motive.

Again give me 1 example of a sick person, never medicated went off on a mass shooting out of nowhere.

I don't think hitler had neighbors that said "I never would have thought he would kill all those Jewish people".

Medication provides plenty of motives as well. Incorrect self-created motives, but motives nonetheless. From zealots shooting up people because they think they are "doing god's work" or "following a message given to them by god" to parents who kill their families because "the devil possessed them" or so on, everyone has a reason. No one just picks up a gun unless they are mentally unstable, and you'd be incapable of proving its the medicine and not the individual's own demented issues that cause it because, flatly, its the mental disturbing and not the medicine that makes them "crazy" in the first place.

Name me an incident where a sane person was improperly medicated and committed a mass shooting simply because of the prescribed drugs and I'd actually count that as an interesting fact. Otherwise, no, you have nothing.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Medication provides plenty of motives as well. Incorrect self-created motives, but motives nonetheless. From zealots shooting up people because they think they are "doing god's work" or "following a message given to them by god" to parents who kill their families because "the devil possessed them" or so on, everyone has a reason. No one just picks up a gun unless they are mentally unstable, and you'd be incapable of proving its the medicine and not the individual's own demented issues that cause it because, flatly, its the mental disturbing and not the medicine that makes them "crazy" in the first place.

Name me an incident where a sane person was improperly medicated and committed a mass shooting simply because of the prescribed drugs and I'd actually count that as an interesting fact. Otherwise, no, you have nothing.

Hitler was a huge drug attict. Look it up.

 

[Doombawkz]

Hitler was a huge drug attict. Look it up.

Hitler wasn't the one shooting people, and the Nazi military was big on anti-medication for their soldiers since anyone who was mentally ill was a target of the regime.

 

[Scoot Magee]

More time to go in depth after work.

 

[rev0lver]

As a psychology student who has studied about these kinds of things I have to say the pharmaceutical industry is absolutely horrible and greedy and they're there 80% for your money and maybe only 20% to help you. These things keep happening yet it's always pushed off to guns/video games/marijuana/rap music. The connection isn't just correlational, the side effects of anti-anxiety/depression drugs in particular can be horrible.

 

[Doombawkz]

As a psychology student who has studied about these kinds of things I have to say the pharmaceutical industry is absolutely horrible and greedy and they're there 80% for your money and maybe only 20% to help you. These things keep happening yet it's always pushed off to guns/video games/marijuana/rap music. The connection isn't just correlational, the side effects of anti-anxiety/depression drugs in particular can be horrible.

Yes but would you say that the drugs are to blame for every single mass shooting that has ever happened?
Drugs are bad, sure, but they aren't the sole factor in why people are out killing eachother. Can you say that non-medicated masses with access to weapons are safer than the medicated masses we have today?

 

[Relaxedstate]

Name a no motive mass shooting where medication wasn't involved. Also why when guns were easier to obtain and drugs weren't a huge factor was there no mass shootings of this type.

I'm not talking domestic violence, not shootings with motives, not terrorist, it's no motive random shootings.

Not to mention the side effects of these drugs are available for people to read. Thoughts of suicide anyone?

http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/army/303901-report-us-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-afghan-mass-shooting

US soldier killed 17 Civilians in Afganistan. He was on no drugs. He did however, most likely have PTSD for which behavioral and pharmacological therapy could have been significantly helpful. There are thousands more. The drugs you mentioned above have been in existance for less than 30 years. People have been killing other people for 100,000 years.

 

[Doombawkz]

US soldier killed 17 Civilians in Afganistan. He was on no drugs. He did however, most likely have PTSD for which behavioral and pharmacological therapy could have been significantly helpful. There are thousands more. The drugs you mentioned above have been in existance for less than 30 years. People have been killing other people for 100,000 years.

^ This guy gets it. Literally what I've been saying the whole time.

 

[Scoot Magee]

http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/army/303901-report-us-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-afghan-mass-shooting

US soldier killed 17 Civilians in Afganistan. He was on no drugs. He did however, most likely have PTSD for which behavioral and pharmacological therapy could have been significantly helpful. There are thousands more. The drugs you mentioned above have been in existance for less than 30 years. People have been killing other people for 100,000 years.

PTSD is actually terrible but are you saying these meds can't push people over the edge? Especially when they lose access to them? It's not talked about at all. All they do is blame guns, games and music.

 

[bettyswallaux]

Have been prescribed most of the meds on this list and from my experience they are harmless, the only thing I took that.made me feel a littlw agitated was mirtazapine, a lot of people like to blame shit on anti depressants but from my experience they are life savers. These people killed outta choice Imo

 

[rev0lver]

Yes but would you say that the drugs are to blame for every single mass shooting that has ever happened?
Drugs are bad, sure, but they aren't the sole factor in why people are out killing eachother. Can you say that non-medicated masses with access to weapons are safer than the medicated masses we have today?

No, it's not to blame for everything

The problem isn't the medications themselves. There are people who are better off with them. However, there are many more people who don't need them. The problem is over-prescribing which leads to these issues. Why do you think they make ads for prescription drugs? It's to convince you to convince your doctor that x drug is right for you when most people don't need it. I have no doubt that a good amount of these listed people wouldve been better off with psychological therapy than being prescribed drugs that could change their behavior for the worse.

 

[Scoot Magee]

No, it's not to blame for everything

The problem isn't the medications themselves. There are people who are better off with them. However, there are many more people who don't need them. The problem is over-prescribing which leads to these issues. Why do you think they make ads for prescription drugs? It's to convince you to convince your doctor that x drug is right for you when most people don't need it. I have no doubt that a good amount of these listed people wouldve been better off with psychological counseling than being prescribed drugs that could change their behavior for the worse.

This is the point I'm trying to make. You're a lot more well spoken than I am lol.

 

[Relaxedstate]

PTSD is actually terrible but are you saying these meds can't push people over the edge? Especially when they lose access to them? It's not talked about at all. All they do is blame guns, games and music.

I am saying that what causes people to kill other people is a complex issue that doesn't deserve to be sensationalized like the author of your the quoted piece.

Drugs may or may not influence people to do irrational things....but millions of people take these drugs and get a lot of help (Often life saving).
Everyone in their life has done drugs at some-point, everyone has watched TV, played videogames, listen to music, gotton a haircut etc etc..... Why some people, whom can take these drugs, play violent video games, and listen to violent music, turn out totally okay while others do not, is the real question here.

Blaming drugs is irrational as blaming guns.

Also, one of the most dangerous drugs, Alcohol, is legal. It is estimated that the American economy suffers approximately 250 billion dollars from the effects of alcohol. Alcohol has resulted in many acts of violence. But again.... why can some people drink alcohol and be fine...while others drink alcohol and destruction ensues?

It is not the drugs. It is not the guns. It isn't the video games. It isn't the television.

Correlation does NOT equal causation.

 

[SaJa]

Imo there were in trouble BEFORE taking those drugs. Drugs is just a consequence and shoting is the beginning of the end.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I am saying that what causes people to kill other people is a complex issue that doesn't deserve to be sensationalized like the author of your the quoted piece.

Drugs may or may not influence people to do irrational things....but millions of people take these drugs and get a lot of help (Often life saving).
Everyone in their life has done drugs at some-point, everyone has watched TV, played videogames, listen to music, gotton a haircut etc etc..... Why some people, whom can take these drugs, play violent video games, and listen to violent music, turn out totally okay while others do not, is the real question here.

Blaming drugs is irrational as blaming guns.

Also, one of the most dangerous drugs, Alcohol, is legal. It is estimated that the American economy suffers approximately 250 billion dollars from the effects of alcohol. Alcohol has resulted in many acts of violence. But again.... why can some people drink alcohol and be fine...while others drink alcohol and destruction ensues?

It is not the drugs. It is not the guns. It isn't the video games. It isn't the television.

Correlation does NOT equal causation.

But like alcohol, drugs have side effects. Thoughts of suicide and aggression are some of them. Regardless of who posted this info I still think drugs played a factor in those cases. The media only talks about games, guns and music but they won't dare go after the drug lobby.

I do see your point though. The only argument I have is that these drugs do have side effects that can make things worse.

 

[rev0lver]

Also, one of the most dangerous drugs, Alcohol, is legal. It is estimated that the American economy suffers approximately 250 billion dollars from the effects of alcohol. Alcohol has resulted in many acts of violence. But again.... why can some people drink alcohol and be fine...while others drink alcohol and destruction ensues?

It is not the drugs. It is not the guns. It isn't the video games. It isn't the television.

Correlation does NOT equal causation.

Alcohol is absolutely not one of the most dangerous drugs. as the drug itself, these drugs are far more dangerous to ones self and others than alcohol. The difference is that drugs are prescribed and controlled so that users only take a certain amount. It's not even a correlation. Many of these drugs have actual negative side effects on people. It just usually happens person to person and in so many of these cases like listed in the op the users were wrongly prescribed or given too much of something without enough behavioral therapy. Because the right thing usually doesn't make these companies and doctors the same amount of money.

Yeah, it's not the only factor in violence and murder. But saying the pharmaceutical industry doesn't need a significant change is absolutely wrong. There's no good reason not to.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Imo there were in trouble BEFORE taking those drugs. Drugs is just a consequence and shoting is the beginning of the end.

I think in a lot of cases people might be a little anti social or something at first. They then get some sort of medication that releases brain chemicals unnaturally. Over time they become extremely reliant on the drugs and that's when the problems start. Just like how a person who abuses illegal drugs can be in an extremely bad mood when they come down.

 

[rev0lver]

But like alcohol, drugs have side effects. Thoughts of suicide and aggression are some of them. Regardless of who posted this info I still think drugs played a factor in those cases. The media only talks about games, guns and music but they won't dare go after the drug lobby.

I do see your point though. The only argument I have is that these drugs do have side effects that can make things worse.

The drug lobby is one of the worst things in America. It's horrible. People don't realize how much money there is behind it