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Mass shootings and drugs

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Ok I deleted the link at the end that I believe had the crazy stuff.

Like I said, I believe there's people with bad mental problems that need meds to function, I'm not arguing that. What I am arguing is the over prescriptions. Too many people are handed drugs in order to solve their problems. I think this contributes to a lot of problems society has.
 

Grave__Intent

Death's Trusty Side-Kick!
• Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

• Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

• Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

• Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

• Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

• Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

• Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

• Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

• A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

• Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

• A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

• Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

• TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

• Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

• James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

• Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

• Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

• Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

• Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

• Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

• Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

• Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

• Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

• Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

• Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

• Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")

• Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

• Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

• Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

• Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

• Woody __, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

• A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

• Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

• Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

• Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

• Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

• Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

• Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.

Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....

• What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az?

• What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado?

• What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or?

• What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct?

Those focusing on further firearms bans or magazine restrictions are clearly focusing on the wrong issue and asking the wrong questions, either as a deliberate attempt to hide these links, or out of complete and utter ignorance.

Don't let them! Force our elected "representatives" and the media to cast a harsh spotlight on this issue. Don't stop hounding them until they do.
As a former Navy Corman I can tell you that drugs have a slightly different effect on everyone. The body's metabolism and chemical make-up differ from person to person so judging psychological effects that one person has another person may not have them at all. You CAN NOT simply say "ALL" kids should not be on these drugs, when in fact these are most likely rare although serious cases. Most drugs as required by the FDA list possible side-effects and known variables associated with any product they produce. You CAN NOT simply say or blame the manufacture or physician is at fault due to the unpredictable nature of human biology.
 

AeroGrunt

Stay Puft
Where I live you have to go through a lot of exams etc in order to get a permit to own a gun. Still, shootings happen here every few years.

Not sure how I feel about medical drugs causing shootings, I know some people who had medication for depression and it really helped them. Also, you could do a list just like the one in the OP about pretty much anything. Somehow this feels similar to stating that the shooters watched TV and that it caused it.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
As a former Navy Corman I can tell you that drugs have a slightly different effect on everyone. The body's metabolism and chemical make-up differ from person to person so judging psychological effects that one person has another person may not have them at all. You CAN NOT simply say "ALL" kids should not be on these drugs, when in fact these are most likely rare although serious cases. Most drugs as required by the FDA list possible side-effects and known variables associated with any product they produce. You CAN NOT simply say or blame the manufacture or physician is at fault due to the unpredictable nature of human biology.
Those damn HMs always making us BMs look dumber everyday
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
As a former Navy Corman I can tell you that drugs have a slightly different effect on everyone. The body's metabolism and chemical make-up differ from person to person so judging psychological effects that one person has another person may not have them at all. You CAN NOT simply say "ALL" kids should not be on these drugs, when in fact these are most likely rare although serious cases. Most drugs as required by the FDA list possible side-effects and known variables associated with any product they produce. You CAN NOT simply say or blame the manufacture or physician is at fault due to the unpredictable nature of human biology.
I'm not saying all/everyone when it comes to drugs is bad. I'm saying its something that's not talked about enough because they do have an impact on society. I don't think anyone can argue that these drugs are not over prescribed.
 

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Correlation does not equal causation. Logical fallacy. /thread

Obviously one would have to be mentally ill to go out and murder people like that. It doesn't seem unlikely that people with mental illness are on medication. You can't prove the medication is the cause. All you can do is look at it and say "seems fishy" but that's all you really have.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Correlation does not equal causation. Logical fallacy. /thread
People keep saying this... Are you saying that drugs have no influence on bad behavior? How can drugs not have any impact on these shootings? Also why is it not talked about?

I've seen this scenario first hand.

A person is depressed over a loss of life, it's something everyone deals with. This person has no history of mental health issues but is prescribed a drug to try and help them through the hard times. Eventually the person tries to get off the drug they relied upon to keep them happy and its a struggle. They act out in ways they have never done before, they think terrible things they didn't think before and are generally worse off than they were before taking the drugs to help them. This is the critical time where bad things can happen and it's more common than people think.

I may be bias on the subject considering problems I've seen first hand within my family and circle of friends. I've seen sane people get hooked on this shit at the recommendation of a doctor when normal therapy would have worked fine. In some cases abuse was involved but the drug didnt have to be introduced to the person in the first place.

I've seen first hand how much worse people can be when coming off the drugs they're prescribed. I don't see how anyone can denie situations like that aren't a contributing factor, especially when you have people who commit these crimes who had no real mental disorder before taking these drugs.

The simple fact is that people become reliant on these drugs after using them for a while and the body doesn't react we'll when they come off or just don't have them on hand. I know doctors are supposed to slowly lower the dosage but its still very complex and doesn't always turn out well, especially with addictive personalities.
 

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
You can't say they were worse off on the drug than without. We'd have to go back in time and not give them the drugs to find out.

You're kind of jumping to conclusions, but I understand what you're saying. Coming from a background of severe depression... Zoloft worked wonders for me.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
A friend of mine used to get these insane headaches. Doctors said there's really no cure but they can mask the pain with pain killers. The headaches were caused by a nerv somewhere near his jaw if I remember correctly.

My friend went and seen a Chinese acupuncture doctor at the recommendation of a friend that studies Chinese medicine. The doctor poked the nerve (something along those lines) and cured the headaches for a few years now with no drugs.
 

Grave__Intent

Death's Trusty Side-Kick!
I'm not saying all/everyone when it comes to drugs is bad. I'm saying its something that's not talked about enough because they do have an impact on society. I don't think anyone can argue that these drugs are not over prescribed.
That could be a general consensus as far as the over prescribed theroy goes, but without knowing the case by case facts it's too hard to make such an assumption.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
That could be a general consensus as far as the over prescribed theroy goes, but without knowing the case by case facts it's too hard to make such an assumption.
But side effects are right there for everybody to see. On a pack of cigarettes it says may cause lung cancer and when the smoker gets lung cancer it's linked to cigarettes. If a bottle of Xanax says "may cause aggression, may hear things that aren't there and thoughts of suicide" nobody links Xanax to a killing or suicide. It makes no sense.
 

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
People keep saying this... Are you saying that drugs have no influence on bad behavior? How can drugs not have any impact on these shootings? Also why is it not talked about?

I've seen this scenario first hand.

A person is depressed over a loss of life, it's something everyone deals with. This person has no history of mental health issues but is prescribed a drug to try and help them through the hard times. Eventually the person tries to get off the drug they relied upon to keep them happy and its a struggle. They act out in ways they have never done before, they think terrible things they didn't think before and are generally worse off than they were before taking the drugs to help them. This is the critical time where bad things can happen and it's more common than people think.

I may be bias on the subject considering problems I've seen first hand within my family and circle of friends. I've seen sane people get hooked on this shit at the recommendation of a doctor when normal therapy would have worked fine. In some cases abuse was involved but the drug didnt have to be introduced to the person in the first place.

I've seen first hand how much worse people can be when coming off the drugs they're prescribed. I don't see how anyone can denie situations like that aren't a contributing factor, especially when you have people who commit these crimes who had no real mental disorder before taking these drugs.

The simple fact is that people become reliant on these drugs after using them for a while and the body doesn't react we'll when they come off or just don't have them on hand. I know doctors are supposed to slowly lower the dosage but its still very complex and doesn't always turn out well, especially with addictive personalities.
What about all of the people drugs have helped? We can't just ignore that. There's a lot of factors here. I would say mental health is more of a contributing factor than prescription drugs are.

There is absolutely no way to say prescription drugs caused a mass shooting. We're talking about mentally ill people here... and of course mentally ill people are most likely going to be on some sort of prescribed medicine.

Of course withdrawals and drugs can cause negative effects. But jumping to causing mass shootings is a bit... pre-emptive.
 
What I know is that vaccines have been used with the same essential substrates for much longer than the sudden spike in autism, and have been responsible for saving millions of lives and preventing even more than that from suffering debilitating long-term health issues. There is absolutely no link whatsoever that any reputable source (read: people who do the actual goddamn research instead of courts filled with people who have no expertise whatsoever on the subject) has ever found connecting autism to vaccines. It's trumped up, made-up bullshit and the anti-vaccine activists are needlessly endangering children. They'd change their tune real fucking fast if polio came back along.

You disgust me.
Your inability to think disgusts me. Why on earth would there be a payout if it had nothing to do with the child's condition? Jeeze use your head ffs. Holy fuck. Don't you see what's going on here? It's about vaccinating and drugging as many people possible to maximize profits. You think Merck's shareholders give a shit about the 100's of girls that have been maimed or killed by Gardisil? Drug companies, banks, insurance companies,etc... You honestly think these entities have our best interest? It's about MONEY and nothing else. The rise in autism is obviously the exponential increase in vaccines given before they reach kindergarten compared to 20 years ago.

A Canadian research team killed cancer cells with DCA but it can't be patented so no drug company wants to touch or test it. You think they care about their fellow man? Please.
 
Reactions: nwo

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Your inability to think disgusts me. Why on earth would there be a payout if it had nothing to do with the child's condition? Jeeze use your head ffs. Holy fuck. Don't you see what's going on here? It's about vaccinating and drugging as many people possible to maximize profits. You think Merck's shareholders give a shit about the 100's of girls that have been maimed or killed by Gardisil? Drug companies, banks, insurance companies,etc... You honestly think these entities have our best interest? It's about MONEY and nothing else. The rise in autism is obviously the exponential increase in vaccines given before they reach kindergarten compared to 20 years ago.

A Canadian research team killed cancer cells with DCA but it can't be patented so no drug company wants to touch or test it. You think they care about their fellow man? Please.
Vaccines have never caused autism. Ever. Doctors do not make money off of vaccines. Talk to one.

Did you ever stop to think that the rise in autism could possibly be...... a rise... in... population? Or maybe it's from something else. Could be growth hormones in food or anything else. But it's most definitely not vaccines.

http://thegazette.com/2011/10/23/rise-preventable-diseases-refused-vaccinations/
 

Grave__Intent

Death's Trusty Side-Kick!
The "KEY WO
But side effects are right there for everybody to see. On a pack of cigarettes it says may cause lung cancer and when the smoker gets lung cancer it's linked to cigarettes. If a bottle of Xanax says "may cause aggression, may hear things that aren't there and thoughts of suicide" nobody links Xanax to a killing or suicide. It makes no sense.
Right there bro is...MAY as in MIGHT or MAYBE. So with that in mind it leaves it open to a sort of randomness, but the providers and pharmaceutical companies have covered their end of the legal ramifications. Consumers should ALWAYS and DO mean ALWAYS read the label before taking these kinds of pills. Know what you are putting in your body. If you feel even the slightest hint of a known side effect call your doctor immediately! They say these things on TV all the time for people to understand but what can you really do if it is just not reaching people? I understand that kids may not know what the side-effects might be, but the parents have a responsibility to inform themselves via their doctor or any other means and then relay these facts to your kids that are taking these drugs and try and make them understand at least to a degree. Then perhaps the likelihood of these incidents will be decreased and we won't have the OP's tragedies happen hardly at all saving allot of lives and heart ache in the process.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Just want to say there's at least 6 cases in my original post where Ritalin was the drug used. Ritalin is prescribed for ADD right? ADD is when a child is hyper and doesn't pay attention right? So would you blame ADD for what they did? Would it be blamed on another undiscovered mental condition? If so why did the problem only become noticed after taking Ritalin?

There's more cases of people with very mild conditions becoming worse after taking drugs then people are giving credit for. How the hell do you go from hyper active to a savage killer?
 

Ermaculate_Slim

We are Many but we didnt make MK11 not one
Many variables can be brought in to try to determine why people kill.It could be drugs, or it could be how/where that person was raised.Maybe this person was always withdrawn and probably bullied.So many factors can go into why a person would turn to do such horrible acts.If you ask me there isn't an answer for this question because maybe its human nature or maybe the devil made em do it;) .