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M2Dave's Friends of the Internet Most Recent Injustice: GAU Tier List

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
So 2 characters who we all agree is better than him, and one with an inconsistent tool he doesn't always have and might just cause more issues for your character than against others. lol

Even if, for sake of argument, you included those, it would still be a top 5 footsie tool. If he was a poor man's version of MMH/Aqua that's irrelevant, he could still be top 5.
There's no reason to use Sinestro when those characters are in the game. He is a footsies character that doesn't have the best footsies.
 
Martian: stand 333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333
Batman: batsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss__________ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Fixed to reflect how far they go
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Batman has much better frame advantage on his strings and they're much faster for punishing point blank. If you're talking about range though, yeah Sinestro has the better string. My point was that Sinestro can't really punish unsafe moves point-blank very well outside of D1 Shackles or 112. Batman has bats. You don't need a ton of range on your strings when you have bats.
Sinestro can punish with d2, which has a ridiculous hitbox and is difficult to punish due to the aforementioned hitox.
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
Game treats armor like block in most cases.
Hm, I was sure it treats those as whiffs, hence more recovery (it looks like some moves have more recovery after whiff) and inability to cancel/MB some stuff.
 

coolwhip

Noob
Batman does not have better footsies than Sinesrtro. Yeah trait is ridiculous but when you look at Sinestro's b1, d2 and trait I can't see how you can make that statement. Also saying "why play Sinestro when those characters are in the game" is weird since Sinestro is a better character than Batman.
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
Sinestro can punish with d2, which has a ridiculous hitbox and is difficult to punish due to the aforementioned hitox.
Sure. But there are several other characters who have better punishes and equal or slightly better D2's. Or, maybe you don't have a chance to punish a lot of stuff b/c at a high level, folks don't dial out unsafe shit that often. Maybe, as a top player w/ a top character, your pressure is so stupidly safe that you rarely play the defense/punish game. That's all.

I wasn't saying Sinestro is bad--I think he's very good. I just think there are a lot of better characters. I think he's right on the cusp of being top 10. Maybe somewhere between 9-11.
 

TKB

Noob
Sure. But there are several other characters who have better punishes and equal or slightly better D2's. Or, maybe you don't have a chance to punish a lot of stuff b/c at a high level, folks don't dial out unsafe shit that often. Maybe, as a top player w/ a top character, your pressure is so stupidly safe that you rarely play the defense/punish game. That's all.

I wasn't saying Sinestro is bad--I think he's very good. I just think there are a lot of better characters. I think he's right on the cusp of being top 10. Maybe somewhere between 9-11.
Don't let Cowboy's absurd downplaying fool you man. Sinestro IS top 10. He's in the top 5 discussion(personally I think flash edges him out for that spot though)
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
Don't let Cowboy's absurd downplaying fool you man. Sinestro IS top 10. He's in the top 5 discussion(personally I think flash edges him out for that spot though)
I actually agree with most of Cowboy's downplaying. Sure he takes it a bit far, but what he says holds merit. That said, he is nowhere near top 5 lol. Outside your main top 4.... Flash, Batman, WW, DD, Bane are all better. He's 8 or 9 at best.
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Batman does not have better footsies than Sinesrtro. Yeah trait is ridiculous but when you look at Sinestro's b1, d2 and trait I can't see how you can make that statement. Also saying "why play Sinestro when those characters are in the game" is weird since Sinestro is a better character than Batman.
Trait outranges anything that Sinestro has and it makes the opponents guess, which is a situation that Batman gets to control. Batman players are FAR worse at downplaying than I am. They'll have you believe that he isn't top 10.

Ok, but that has nothing to do with sinestro being A tier/top 5 lol
Yes, Sinestro is top 10. No, it doesn't matter because he has almost no chance at winning a major. It's really just a testament to how imbalanced Injustice is. When is the last time that a non-top 3 character won a major? And yea, Bit getting second at Final Round was a big accomplishment but he was not able to win. Let's also not forget that he didn't run into his unwinnable MUs and he usually doesn't until later in the tournament. Playing a character with an unwinnable MU is not a viable tournament strategy.
 

coolwhip

Noob
He has everything except for a good wakeup. His zoning is good, his bats are broken, his pressure is good, his jump is INSANE. I don't see the problem.
He literally has holes in every viable string but B23, as in, full combo punishable holes. He has no real mix-ups in a game where mix-ups are extremely important to open people up. Actually, his normals are quite poor on the whole (people often see fast start up frames and a lot of plus frames and get intimidated). His range sucks. His footsies, anti-air and overall defense are extremely reliant on his bats.

The thing is, he is well-rounded, and doesn't really have any handicap match-up other than Aquaman. The fact that he's not horrible at anything other than wake-ups is a big plus because he's never out of options. But look at the tier list in the OP and tell me which characters ahead of him is he better than.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
He has everything except for a good wakeup. His zoning is good, his bats are broken, his pressure is good, his jump is INSANE. I don't see the problem.
It doesn't matter how good his pressure is when he doesn't have anything to mix you up. Injustice chip damage isn't like MK9. If you block a normal on MK9 you lose 1% chip damage, if you block a normal on Injustice you lose 0.1% chip damage. So it really doesn't matter if Batman is pressuring you like crazy and you block for 30 seconds, because you probably only lost about 5% chip damage or less in that 30 seconds and the Batman player just wasted all his meter and trait.

His bats are very good but not broken. They have 0 block stun so alot of characters can just mash while blocking them and hit Batman out of his pressure or jump in. His bats are better for whiff punishing and extending combos.

His zoning is good in certain matchups like Grundy Bane Shazam etc. But those characters all fuck him up when they get next to his so it's not that bad. His zoning isn't anything near Zod or Martian or even Cyborg for that matter. He can really only zone against like 10 characters or less, the other 20 characters or more in the cast outzone him or bypass his zoning very easily

His jump is insane, but it can still be anti-aired by almost half the cast. And when you think about it, it doesn't really matter if you block his jump in, what is he going to do? A low attack or mid into trait cancel, then he can extend his pressure with MB batarangs and hit you with more lows and mids. Almost every string he has (b113, b112, 112, 113, f23) all have high attacks in them and can be ducked for a full combo punish. But it doesn't matter because he doesn't have any overheads, so you can literally just block him all day until he runs out of meter. He needs meter to keep his pressure going but it in the end it doesn't matter if he keeps his pressure going because chip damage is very minimal in Injustice and Batman can't open you up with mixups unless you can't react to a 30 frame F3
 

coolwhip

Noob
Well, actually I remember there was a hole too. I think I've seen Grundy players WCCing inbetween hits.
Although that one may be not quite full combo punishable.
You can jump out of it or dash forward (or back) if you start blocking the string standing. The timing is strict though. But realistically, nobody should block high against Batman so that's why he can get away with B23.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Batman doesn't JUST lose to Aquaman, by the by.

Raven, GL, possibly Harley and possibly Zod are also not favorable.

I thought this notion of Batman only having one losing match up died?
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
You can jump out of it or dash forward (or back) if you start blocking the string standing. The timing is strict though. But realistically, nobody should block high against Batman so that's why he can get away with B23.
Did you know that, and I'm not sure why this is(possibly a spacing issue), the second hit of b112/b113 will whiff on some characters on HIT?

It could be an issue where this happens if you try to use the move from it's max range. Which begs the question, how good is a move that you can't reliably use from max distance?
 

coolwhip

Noob
It doesn't matter how good his pressure is when he doesn't have anything to mix you up. Injustice chip damage isn't like MK9. If you block a normal on MK9 you lose 1% chip damage, if you block a normal on Injustice you lose 0.1% chip damage. So it really doesn't matter if Batman is pressuring you like crazy and you block for 30 seconds, because you probably only lost about 5% chip damage or less in that 30 seconds and the Batman player just wasted all his meter and trait.

His bats are very good but not broken. They have 0 block stun so alot of characters can just mash while blocking them and hit Batman out of his pressure or jump in. His bats are better for whiff punishing and extending combos.

His zoning is good in certain matchups like Grundy Bane Shazam etc. But those characters all fuck him up when they get next to his so it's not that bad. His zoning isn't anything near Zod or Martian or even Cyborg for that matter. He can really only zone against like 10 characters or less, the other 20 characters or more in the cast outzone him or bypass his zoning very easily

His jump is insane, but it can still be anti-aired by almost half the cast. And when you think about it, it doesn't really matter if you block his jump in, what is he going to do? A low attack or mid into trait cancel, then he can extend his pressure with MB batarangs and hit you with more lows and mids. Almost every string he has (b113, b112, 112, 113, f23) all have high attacks in them and can be ducked for a full combo punish. But it doesn't matter because he doesn't have any overheads, so you can literally just block him all day until he runs out of meter. He needs meter to keep his pressure going but it in the end it doesn't matter if he keeps his pressure going because chip damage is very minimal in Injustice and Batman can't open you up with mixups unless you can't react to a 30 frame F3
I was actually just thinking about his J2 today, and that's exactly what I thought: Just block. Seriously. Block. What's going to happen? Never mind that charcters like Flash, Wonder Woman and others can D2 it pretty consistently (and the fact that J2 isn't great as an air to air so you can risk challenging him in the air), but block. Take the string. Even if he calls his bats (which you can just push block) or chips you with batarangs. Especially if you have the life lead. Batman could be playing against Flash, who gets in on him, takes 50% plus oki set-ups, and forces Batman to get in: You pressure him for 30 seconds, and all you've done is spend meter for about 5% chip, and just killed time for your opponent who has the life lead. If you have the life lead, you can turtle Batman by letting him pressure you, lol.

Seriously though, Batman is good, but his pressure is the biggest bill the game has had to offer since the October patch. Batman works better if you play him less aggressively, chill, zone and punish. That's the real viable way for him to get damage against good players. He has to be reactive, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but when you compare that to the tools other top tier characters in the game have, it's a problem. Plus, Injustice is a really momentum oriented game. Batman rarely gets momentum unless it's in the corner (his pressure doesn't count, LBSH). Whereas against characters like Doomsday, Flash, WW, Batgirl, etc...things can get out of hand pretty quickly. Hell, even Catwoman is scarier when she gets momentum (I'm not saying she's better, of course).

That's kinda what I wanted to say at the podcast before Saucy Jack jumped at me for downplaying lol.
 
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coolwhip

Noob
Batman doesn't JUST lose to Aquaman, by the by.

Raven, GL, possibly Harley and possibly Zod are also not favorable.

I thought this notion of Batman only having one losing match up died?
I said the only handicap match-up for him is Aquaman (as in it's pretty bad), not that it's his only losing match-up.

Did you know that, and I'm not sure why this is(possibly a spacing issue), the second hit of b112/b113 will whiff on some characters on HIT?

It could be an issue where this happens if you try to use the move from it's max range. Which begs the question, how good is a move that you can't reliably use from max distance?
Yup. I'm all too aware unfortunately.
 
how are people saying batman's pressure is a bill, mb rangs does 4.5% chip, combined with a back 3 that's almost 7 percent for a bar, let alone having tons of frame advantage.

And why aren't more batman's ending their combos with an ambiguous crossup.... My friend does this, if he does jump 1 it lands on the front, and if he does jump 2 it crosses up... It's a true 50/50 vortex for a bar.
 

coolwhip

Noob
how are people saying batman's pressure is a bill, mb rangs does 4.5% chip, combined with a back 3 that's almost 7 percent for a bar, let alone having tons of frame advantage.

And why aren't more batman's ending their combos with an ambiguous crossup.... My friend does this, if he does jump 1 it lands on the front, and if he does jump 2 it crosses up... It's a true 50/50 vortex for a bar.
The same mix-up can be done with J2 and J3.