Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[Mandolore1123]

Apparently there is now a Flawless Block window when using B12 Elec Burst

Can the grab ender punish the flawless block attempt? That may be the intended use

 

[Mandolore1123]

What looks like happens is it can wiff if they blocked the initial b12 low. If they blocked it high, they can't just transition to blocking low and cause it to wiff on reaction to you doing b12. I got to work that way on about three characters I could also get it to wiff on so far, so I'm thinking that's just the thing about it

does it work when they only block the 2 high? If so we can condition with B14 and land the grab more reliably

 

[Gooberking]

does it work when they only block the 2 high? If so we can condition with B14 and land the grab more reliably

Like someone mentioned it looks like it runs of the the 2 in b12 as to if they can duck it or not. So that should work. They are probably best of taking the overhead and landing the d2 KB if you go for the throw attempt. There is a lot going on around b12, so it's not going to be hard to overload a lot of people's brains or kill them with ignorance. I'm guessing you don't go down this road until you run into someone you can't get to open up.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Like someone mentioned it looks like it runs of the the 2 in b12 as to if they can duck it or not. So that should work. They are probably best of taking the overhead and landing the d2 KB if you go for the throw attempt. There is a lot going on around b12, so it's not going to be hard to overload a lot of people's brains or kill them with ignorance. I'm guessing you don't go down this road until you run into someone you can't get to open up.

Cheers. I don‘t foresee people using that grab a lot anyways unless it’s able to beat flawless block attempts for Raijin DF2

 

[Darth Mao]

It was sarcasm. That suggestion was clearly a troll.

No, it doens't. Not everything needs to be hit confirmable, before we even had the option of b3~Storm Cell so is something. Not great, but something.

 

[Darth Mao]

Can the grab ender punish the flawless block attempt? That may be the intended use

Yes.

does it work when they only block the 2 high? If so we can condition with B14 and land the grab more reliably

They can standing block the b1 and duck. You can use b14 to condition, but its 19f (b12 is 13f) so I guess it is possible to fuzzy guard (difficult, but possible). Need more lab.

 

[Darth-Nero]

I wonder if B312+4 coming out on block now is a big deal.

• It leaves you just outside of deep J3 distance, which is reaaaaally far away. Even at -16 on block this could be useful.
• Opponent can't jump out between the 1 and 2+4!

Do note that if B31 is flawless blocked, the 2+4 doesn't come out.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265423404188020736

 

[Trustful_Whale]

It was sarcasm. That suggestion was clearly a troll.

Keep in mind that b3 is +12 on hit and jails into 12, s4, or 243.
Missing the confirm isn't the end of the world.

 

[Marlow]

Guys, this whole wiff issue on the grab is insane. There's no way it was intended like this. Kitana can poke out of it. There are others that can low profile it too. This was supposed to stuff any poke attempt to close teleport. There's no mind game if you can just mash d3 or d4.

They said on the stream that you can duck or poke out of it.

 

[Black Chapters]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265449859320098816

 

[Zviko]

Keep in mind that b3 is +12 on hit and jails into 12, s4, or 243.
Missing the confirm isn't the end of the world.

It's also -9 on block.

 

[Szkarad]

Being honest I think the most hyped change - the new throw will not have a major impact with how risky it is. Seems nrs wants raiden to be a footsie character and only so-so up close. What gets me most hyped is the F1 (the staff combo) have actually a decent hitbox - it hits slightly further than roundstart range.
B32 buff is great, but it's a shame that if flawless blocked you cant finish the combo. Still it'll be great to do B32 and make the opponent guess whether you'll finish the string of go for a newly buffed F2 after which you can pressure or throw

B12 is decent but not amazing imo. Btw. I really wish superman was a parry (similiar to Spawn's charge that parries projectiles if held) if you held it. Then B12 would be a nice guess whether you'll throw, superman, or steal your turn.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I think S3 also got long deserved hit box fixes. I can actually hit it after landing a D3.

 

[Marlow]

I thought I saw that amped Lightning Bolt is now plus on block. Is that true, and does that mean he can actually get some follow ups after doing something like B12xxxBF1 AMP?

 

[kabelfritz]

there might be a damage buff on either d2 KB or FB. the kombo did 485 before, now 507.

 

[Zviko]

I thought I saw that amped Lightning Bolt is now plus on block. Is that true, and does that mean he can actually get some follow ups after doing something like B12xxxBF1 AMP?

It doesn't jail though. You can interrupt and full combo punish.

 

[Marlow]

It doesn't jail though. You can interrupt and full combo punish.

Oh well. Still, it's some plus frames, so there could be something there if the opponent is conditioned to block.

 

[ruthlezz97]

Good thing our 1+3 is true high,it induces a lot of mindgames

 

[Marlow]

Good thing our 1+3 is true high,it induces a lot of mindgames

Well that's just a big bummer. I wasn't happy about it, but I can live with them being able to duck/poke out of the throw as long as doing B12 into Storm Cell (or whatever other launcher depending on variation) would still blow up the poke. Hopefully it's an easy fix and then get to it sooner rather than later.

 

[Mandolore1123]

They can standing block the b1 and duck. You can use b14 to condition, but its 19f (b12 is 13f) so I guess it is possible to fuzzy guard (difficult, but possible). Need more lab.

Hi. I've been in the lab trying to duck block the first hit of B1, then stand block the 2 and crouch block again for 1+3 and it doesn't work (at least I can't get it to work). So I'm not sure if the fuzzy matters because they will block low first then overhead then low again (since the order is B12 then B14 then B12 1+3). However since you can't block low after the second hit then Raiden still has mix from B14 and B12 1+3, just unsafe on both ends. Appreciate if others can help confirm @Trustful_Whale @Marlow

 

[Darth Mao]

Hi. I've been in the lab trying to duck block the first hit of B1, then stand block the 2 and crouch block again for 1+3 and it doesn't work (at least I can't get it to work). So I'm not sure if the fuzzy matters because they will block low first then overhead then low again (since the order is B12 then B14 then B12 1+3). However since you can't block low after the second hit then Raiden still has mix from B14 and B12 1+3, just unsafe on both ends. Appreciate if others can help confirm @Trustful_Whale @Marlow

What I'm trying to say is that they're able to stand block the b1, then crouch block the second hit (2) and the throw (1+3) to force whiff and punish. But if they stand block the second hit (b12), then the only way to make the throw whiff is neutral ducking the last hit.

So if you condition them to crouch block the b12, you can risk b14 sometimes to make him guess. So the second hit of b12 goes on standing block and the opponent enters in another guessing game between some special or the throw.

Sorry for any typo, my english isn't fluent.

 

[ruthlezz97]

What I'm trying to say is that they're able to stand block the b1, then crouch block the second hit (2) and the throw (1+3) to force whiff and punish. But if they stand block the second hit (b12), then the only way to make the throw whiff is neutral ducking the last hit.

So if you condition them to crouch block the b12, you can risk b14 sometimes to make him guess. So the second hit of b12 goes on standing block and the opponent enters in another guessing game between some special or the throw.

Sorry for any typo, my english isn't fluent.

But can it simply be like Nightwolfs in Ancestral Gift? Or Terminators F2 1+3? Or Shaos F34 1+3?

 

[Mandolore1123]

What I'm trying to say is that they're able to stand block the b1, then crouch block the second hit (2) and the throw (1+3) to force whiff and punish. But if they stand block the second hit (b12), then the only way to make the throw whiff is neutral ducking the last hit.

So if you condition them to crouch block the b12, you can risk b14 sometimes to make him guess. So the second hit of b12 goes on standing block and the opponent enters in another guessing game between some special or the throw.

Sorry for any typo, my english isn't fluent.

I'll lab it more. I haven't tested neutral ducking yet.

EDIT: Yes you are completely right. Ppl can neutral duck after stand blocking and bypass the mixup entirely.

 

[Darth Mao]

I'll lab it more. I haven't tested neutral ducking yet.

EDIT: Yes you are completely right. Ppl can neutral duck after stand blocking and bypass the mixup entirely.

Not entirely. Once conditioned to standing block b12, they have to react between neutral duck or not. Neutral duck make the throw wiff but leaves them vulnerable to gimmicks.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Not entirely. Once conditioned to standing block b12, they have to react between neutral duck or not. Neutral duck make the throw wiff but leaves them vulnerable to gimmicks.

Sorry. Should have been more specific. The mix I was talking about was only the layer of B14 and B12 1+3. There are many more layers and gimmicks Raiden can do off B12. I am going to be testing his new BF1 changes. I find those to be very promising because he gets plus frames and good spacing after doing them off strings