Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[Marlow]

So just so I have Raiden's B12 situation correct in my head:

Raiden's options realistically are:

B12 into nothing
B12 into Electric Fly cancel
B12 into teleport
B12 into Storm Cell/Electric Current/Other Special
B12 1+3
B14

Given those options, how many different counters would the opponent need to cover those options? They're all pretty unsafe for Raiden, but if the opponent at least has to guess between doing 2-3 things it at least makes the guessing game more in Raiden's favor.

 

[Mandolore1123]

So just so I have Raiden's B12 situation correct in my head:

Raiden's options realistically are:

B12 into nothing
B12 into Electric Fly cancel
B12 into teleport
B12 into Storm Cell/Electric Current
B12 1+3
B14

Given those options, how many different counters would the opponent need to cover those options? They're all pretty unsafe for Raiden, but if the opponent at least has to guess between doing 2-3 things it at least makes the guessing game more in Raiden's favor.

It’s even more layers if you factor in close, regular, and far teleport, not to mention Raijin’s options with DF2. However, you’re right that Raiden does have a multitude of options available to him off his 11f forward advancing mid.

 

[Marlow]

It’s even more layers if you factor in close, regular, and far teleport, not to mention Raijin’s options with DF2. However, you’re right that Raiden does have a multitude of options available to him off his 11f forward advancing mid.

He also has F32 as an 11 frame safe mid string that ends in an overhead. I feel like throwing that out more often could help condition opponents to preemptively try and block high. I'm not sure how many players have the reactions in match to consistently react to which 11f mid he starts with and then stand or crouch block accordingly, in addition to worrying about the other options listed.

Some of the B12 stuff might by the kind of stuff that's easy to punish in practice mode, but hard to punish in an actual match. Like Scorpion's teleport when it was a mid.

 

[Black Chapters]

b12 1+3 was never meant to be a throw to grab a ducking block

you can tell by their description of it

so don't expect a change

 

[Zviko]

b12 1+3 was never meant to be a throw to grab a ducking block

you can tell by their description of it

so don't expect a change

Description is "now hits as a throw". Exactly the same as Shao's and NW's and yet theirs work on duck blocking opponents.

 

[ExpectFlames]

B12 and the throw both have issues for sure for me though f11 actually being a consistent move now is amazing couple that with f32/f3lowpole or just staggering f3 flat out pubstomps. B31low lighting coming out on block is dope to. Overall superhappy with the character can actually press buttons now!!!

 

[Marlow]

I went back and listened to the Kombat Kast. My understanding is that the 1+3 grab was supposed to stop people from immediately poking after the B12. Whether it's supposed to whiff on both neutral ducking and crouch blockers seems a bit ambiguous to me.

It's described at about the 44 minute mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uduWELCTcko

 

[DarksydeDash]

So just so I have Raiden's B12 situation correct in my head:

Raiden's options realistically are:

B12 into nothing
B12 into Electric Fly cancel
B12 into teleport
B12 into Storm Cell/Electric Current
B12 1+3
B14

Given those options, how many different counters would the opponent need to cover those options? They're all pretty unsafe for Raiden, but if the opponent at least has to guess between doing 2-3 things it at least makes the guessing game more in Raiden's favor.

B12 Discharge and lightning rod can be added to this as well.

 

[Black Chapters]

Description is "now hits as a throw". Exactly the same as Shao's and NW's and yet theirs work on duck blocking opponents.

I'm use to it

Rolling Thunder is similar to a bunch of moves people have where they place attacks on the screen that do damage over time but he can't just place it like they can and it just moves on its own.

Lightning Storm is similar to a bunch of moves people have where they gain air attacks but his is forced into a fixed area and he can do it freely.

I don't think a single person at NRS has ever actually tested Raiden and thats why hes like this.

 

[DixieFlatline78]

It's not the end of the world. It whiffs on crouching opponents but if they're crouching they're not block punishing. Plus 8 frame characters cant even punish it. I mean yeah it would be nice if the string just fucking worked but whatever its workable. Plus as previously stated he has a lot of other options and they cant cover all of them

 

[Darth-Nero]

 

[Marlow]

Saw that. I get Tom's point, but I think he's blowing it a bit out of proportion.

 

[ExpectFlames]

Saw that. I get Tom's point, but I think he's blowing it a bit out of proportion.

Yeah he doesnt talk about the dirt raiden did get. F3 stagger mix ups b31lighting on block or the plus frames from bolt.

Positives are super high on the god right now

 

[Marlow]

Yeah he doesnt talk about the dirt raiden did get. F3 stagger mix ups b31lighting on block or the plus frames from bolt.

Positives are super high on the god right now

Yeah, Raiden does have other strings besides B12.

I also wonder how much of the stuff Tom is talking about is actually applicable in a real match as opposed to practice mode. A lot of people don't flawless block optimally. And punishing a -8 frame move with a 7 frame jab is still a tight gap, even for good players.

In general I feel like MK11 has fewer risk free or guaranteed options for a lot of characters, and that seems to bother a lot of people, but I'm fine with that because for the most part as long as you can get a good read on your opponent, you can blow them up. The game seems like it really rewards making reads, which I like.

 

[ExpectFlames]

I also wonder how much of the stuff Tom is talking about Is actualy applicable..

I think he spends the majority of his time against someone who does nothing but flawless block him ninja or tweedy probably

 

[Mandolore1123]

If people are waiting to OS flawless block the DF2 and the grab, they are not going to punish B12. While I personally don’t think they should have added the FB gap at B12~DF2, it’s not the end of the world. Raiden still has options to deal with this. Not to mention F4~DF2 still has no FB gap

 

[Darth Mao]

But can it simply be like Nightwolfs in Ancestral Gift? Or Terminators F2 1+3? Or Shaos F34 1+3?

Sorry, I haven't seen your post before. If they patch, yes. This really need to be, otherwise the buff will not make any difference.

b12 1+3 was never meant to be a throw to grab a ducking block

you can tell by their description of it

so don't expect a change

Why not?

 

[ruthlezz97]

Sorry, I haven't seen your post before. If they patch, yes. This really need to be, otherwise the buff will not make any difference.


Why not?

Thats the only change that needs to happen. One final thing they should do is make b31 not count as launcher and Raiden will be solid A tier character and S in Raijin.

 

[Black Chapters]

Why not?

cause thats how it was meant to be

 

[Darth Mao]

cause thats how it was meant to be

Was it meant to don't work properly?

 

[Black Chapters]

Was it meant to don't work properly?

who says it is?

 

[Darth Mao]

Omg... Ok, you won.

 

[Black Chapters]

ok

 

[Black Chapters]

http://imgur.com/0FMUhLO

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

And punishing a -8 frame move with a 7 frame jab is still a tight gap, even for good players.

There is a 5f buffer... It is EASY to hit that 7f jab.