Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[Swoops]

Important to note that B12 jails. Tested with a few characters and if they block the first hit, they were NOT able to duck or otherwise make the 2 whiff.

 

[Marinjuana]

Raiden's Superman KB example usage:

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Raiden's Superman KB example usage:

While these situations are true, I find that almost nobody wants to sit at literal full screen from me doing anything that a superman can travel through.
Honestly, I think the only real "practical" use for this KB is by using far sparkport to cross sides with an opponent that is moving towards you, so when you land you're both at max screen and the other character is likely recovering from their move so you superman.
It's so far happened to me once vs Liu Kang kick, but I don't know if it was an actual punish (didn't see the toast).

 

[Marinjuana]

While these situations are true, I find that almost nobody wants to sit at literal full screen from me doing anything that a superman can travel through.
Honestly, I think the only real "practical" use for this KB is by using far sparkport to cross sides with an opponent that is moving towards you, so when you land you're both at max screen and the other character is likely recovering from their move so you superman.
It's so far happened to me once vs Liu Kang kick, but I don't know if it was an actual punish (didn't see the toast).

You can't make a read on Sandtrap or punish a fatal blow? You can't make a read on Cetrion's slow projectiles? Can't do the occasional yolo Superman?

If you are just making people scared of doing stuff that could get blown then you are getting value out of it.

 

[OG Mannimal]

Just give his lightning strike neutral frames on block just like Raven

 

[Swoops]

You can't make a read on Sandtrap or punish a fatal blow? You can't make a read on Cetrion's slow projectiles? Can't do the occasional yolo Superman? If you are just making people scared of doing stuff that could get blown then you are getting value out of it.

My only thought on his fly KB is that it's probably more practical to punish with teleport into full combo for more damage in most of those scenarios.

Although if you're using the other variation or want to cancel out of fly just in case it can be useful.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

You can't make a read on Sandtrap or punish a fatal blow? You can't make a read on Cetrion's slow projectiles? Can't do the occasional yolo Superman?

If you are just making people scared of doing stuff that could get blown then you are getting value out of it.

I'm saying I'm often not at the correct range for the KB to trigger when that stuff happens to me.

 

[Marinjuana]

I'm saying I'm often not at the correct range for the KB to trigger when that stuff happens to me.

I gotcha, I'm not trying to oversell the KB here but it has it's uses.

 

[Swoops]

Some random findings I thought I’d write down:

• Blocked strings into fly cancel are -8/9 at best with decent distance. Delaying the cancel can put you further back ranging from -12 to -19ish
• Teleport cancels seem to be -9 or -12 based on string. Definitely punishable unless you burn a bar to get full screen. Can also double TP to make their autocorrect punish whiff. Pretty grimy
• B31 definitely gets blown up by flawless block. Will need to start spacing the b3 and mixing fly cancels
• Ground Fly knockdown into TP is a +4 situation (!) however if you’re doing jump fly you’re less advantageous so it shouldn’t work
• F32 is great
• 243 is great but starting with an 11f high is rough. Need to make them respect the mids
• BF1 seems superior to DF2 if you really feel like throwing out a projectile
• Getting decent mileage with F1/F2/F4 to enforce mid to 3/4 range since his projectiles are balls
• max B1 spacing isn’t too difficult and I highly recommend learning it. It’ll be like -4/5 and push them back. A lot of times they’ll start pushing bad buttons for you to punish

 

[Mandolore1123]

Some random findings I thought I’d write down:

• Blocked strings into fly cancel are -8/9 at best with decent distance. Delaying the cancel can put you further back ranging from -12 to -19ish
• Teleport cancels seem to be -9 or -12 based on string. Definitely punishable unless you burn a bar to get full screen. Can also double TP to make their autocorrect punish whiff. Pretty grimy
• B31 definitely gets blown up by flawless block. Will need to start spacing the b3 and mixing fly cancels
• Ground Fly knockdown into TP is a +4 situation (!) however if you’re doing jump fly you’re less advantageous so it shouldn’t work
• F32 is great
• 243 is great but starting with an 11f high is rough. Need to make them respect the mids
• BF1 seems superior to DF2 if you really feel like throwing out a projectile
• Getting decent mileage with F1/F2/F4 to enforce mid to 3/4 range since his projectiles are balls

That sucks Wish he had better frames on cancels but the important thing is probably the distance Raiden gains and hence his whiff punishing capability. Does this mean it's probably better to do b3~superman cancel instead of b31~superman cancel?

 

[MKF30]

Definitely think his db2 needs to be safe on block and/or have more pushback.

 

[Marinjuana]

Definitely think his db2 needs to be safe on block and/or have more pushback.

That's his big damage combo extension champ!

 

[MKF30]

That's his big damage combo extension champ!

I know man lol I posted some cool combos in the Raiden combo thread that's his bnb move that leads to his swanky combos.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

• Getting decent mileage with F1/F2/F4 to enforce mid to 3/4 range since his projectiles are balls

I agree with everything you wrote but this part really speaks to me. Any time I use df2 I immediately think to myself "why do I keep using this?" as it's coming out and is inevitably blocked and I wasted the frames.
Sure, sometimes I catch jumps or a flying kick, but this move was over nerfed to the point where it's not even fun to cast since you get so little from it for the risk, and everyone ducks bf1.

Make Lightning Strike Great Again.

 

[Swoops]

That sucks Wish he had better frames on cancels but the important thing is probably the distance Raiden gains and hence his whiff punishing capability. Does this mean it's probably better to do b3~superman cancel instead of b31~superman cancel?

In theory yes if they know how to flawless block. Or you can just mix in raw b3. Keep in mind though if they aren't flawless blocking then I wouldn't worry about it.

I agree with everything you wrote but this part really speaks to me. Any time I use df2 I immediately think to myself "why do I keep using this?" as it's coming out and is inevitably blocked and I wasted the frames.
Sure, sometimes I catch jumps or a flying kick, but this move was over nerfed to the point where it's not even fun to cast since you get so little from it for the risk, and everyone ducks bf1.

Make Lightning Strike Great Again.

Yea I rarely use lightning strike as a check. In most cases I'd just rather use BF1. Sure they can duck it but at least the AMP comes out on whiff or block to keep them honest. Way safer, more advantage, etc.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Yea I rarely use lightning strike as a check. In most cases I'd just rather use BF1. Sure they can duck it but at least the AMP comes out on whiff or block to keep them honest. Way safer, more advantage, etc.

It really does shut down jumps though, If they for some reason try to jump up for an airprojectile or whatever, it smacks them down back to the ground

 

[Swoops]

It really does shut down jumps though, If they for some reason try to jump up for an airprojectile or whatever, it smacks them down back to the ground

True but personally if I think they are going to jump I try to AA on reaction with a much safer button like F1 or F2/F4

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

if you do 21 superman but hold 3 so it catches them getting up ive gotten the KB a few times but its obviously unnecessary risk ha

 

[MKF30]

I wish he had a protective electrical field aura move similar to that of KL's shielding hats and Kitana's fan move. That would have been sweet!

 

[Mandolore1123]

Can NRS fix the hit box of F1 so it's actually at the end of the staff instead of like one tenth of it inside so I can whiff punish people? Instead of seeing my staff go through their head without them getting hit and I get whiff punished for trying to whiff punish

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

Can NRS fix the hit box of F1 so it's actually at the end of the staff instead of like one tenth of it inside so I can whiff punish people? Instead of seeing my staff go through their head without them getting hit and I get whiff punished for trying to whiff punish

i think the issue is some staffs are shorter like the ball end one, which is why i keep it on that so i dont have a misleading tip although it looks cooler.


I landed my first instant air superman today off a hop, its hard for me to do consistently but im thinking theres a possibility of fitting it into combos.

 

[f24]

i think the issue is some staffs are shorter like the ball end one, which is why i keep it on that so i dont have a misleading tip although it looks cooler.


I landed my first instant air superman today off a hop, its hard for me to do consistently but im thinking theres a possibility of fitting it into combos.

Unless there’s a damage buff for instant air Supermans, I’m not really sure how we could use them in combos.

 

[MKF30]

Can NRS fix the hit box of F1 so it's actually at the end of the staff instead of like one tenth of it inside so I can whiff punish people? Instead of seeing my staff go through their head without them getting hit and I get whiff punished for trying to whiff punish

Yeah, I hate how that string whiffs at times. The start up of the staff strings are also so slow.

 

[Mandolore1123]

What are the best strings to do superman cancels off? Some strings seem to put Raiden a bit too close for comfort, to the point where others can probably d4 punish afterwards??

 

[Mandolore1123]

121 seems to have this weird pushback that causes d1s to whiff and Raiden can counter hit with B12. Saw it online and I’ve tried it out a bit too.