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Lord Raiden Custom Variations Thread

okhuskerfan

"Don't cry now Jacqui"
Sad but true...
Also, is it only my impression that whatever custom move you choose, in the end it's just B12 mind games?
B12 into custom move or throw. Of course I'm making a generalisation beacuse each move has its own properties, but it's mine feeling for now.
No no, you're right. But it's his best mind game right now. And it is good, although a bit boring.
 
Sad but true...
Also, is it only my impression that whatever custom move you choose, in the end it's just B12 mind games?
B12 into custom move or throw. Of course I'm making a generalisation beacuse each move has its own properties, but it's mine feeling for now.
Sprinle a bit of B14 and F32 mindgames for good measure.
 

Marlow

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Also, is it only my impression that whatever custom move you choose, in the end it's just B12 mind games?
For the most part, yeah. It's his fastest mid cancellable string. That was likely always going to be the case though, it's a really good string for him.
 

Marlow

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F11 and 243 have their uses as well, especially 243 now that it's easier to jail. For example, if you have Lightning Storm, you can hit confirm 243 into either damage ender (Super Bolt does 23% on Amp with corner carry, Electric Fly does 24% on amp with corner carry, Summon Lightning does 24% on Amp), or if it's blocked you can cancel into Lightning Storm - AMP - Overhead for 6% mostly safe chip.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Sad but true...
Also, is it only my impression that whatever custom move you choose, in the end it's just B12 mind games?
B12 into custom move or throw. Of course I'm making a generalisation beacuse each move has its own properties, but it's mine feeling for now.
To my knowledge Raijin is the only loadout that doesn’t rely on B12 mind games because of the OS. So the general offensive game plan revolves around F3~DF2, F32 and F3 stagger, with B12 reserved for whiff punishing only
 

Marlow

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It really is too bad they didn't change Jo Push to 1 slot. A Teleport + Jo Push could be nice. That way you'd still have a teleport + launcher, and have access to Summon Lightning. Teleport is a great move, but literally the only move that makes sense with it is Storm Cell.
 

wookie

Noob
Currently I'm labbing how wakeup options of the roster act with Raiden's float. So far I found some interersting things with Kabal's and Scorpion's U2. In most cases Float into 3 wins with wake up options, but I can see you can go with something bigger!
(extra clip with Super Bolt KB ;) )
I'm cosidering a crazy build just for fun with Float, Super Bolt and Lighting Rod for some corner action :D
(a n example with Lighting Rod)
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
So with the new Lambert Raiden skin, Im thinking of learning him. What have you all been noticing in terms of most optimal loadout? I read a few people saying how the Super bolt is shit but does he have anything else worth using? Does he have setups or is he mainly going to whiff punish the opponent?
 

Marlow

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So with the new Lambert Raiden skin, Im thinking of learning him. What have you all been noticing in terms of most optimal loadout? I read a few people saying how the Super bolt is shit but does he have anything else worth using? Does he have setups or is he mainly going to whiff punish the opponent?
Thunder wave is likely still his most optimal load out. Storm Cell and Teleport. I think some of his other custom moves or custom load outs can have some potential in terms of personal preference for a move (Maybe you really like Storm Cell since it's his best launcher, but you also want Quick Charge so can you can punish strings or moves that are -6 or -7). I think his Lightning Storm (the float stance) move has some good potential. But most of his custom moves seem to be more about offering utility to supplement the base kit of either Storm Cell or Quick Charge + Electric Current. Pretty much any serious Raiden variation is going to start with one of those two load outs.

I think he's mainly a whiff punish, mid range character. With the buffs to his B12 string and B14 string that's where most of his stagger game comes from. If he has any potential setups it's likely using Lightning Rod, but that move is too inconsistent and inefficient to be an actual competitive strategy at this point.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
Thunder wave is likely still his most optimal load out. Storm Cell and Teleport. I think some of his other custom moves or custom load outs can have some potential in terms of personal preference for a move (Maybe you really like Storm Cell since it's his best launcher, but you also want Quick Charge so can you can punish strings or moves that are -6 or -7). I think his Lightning Storm (the float stance) move has some good potential. But most of his custom moves seem to be more about offering utility to supplement the base kit of either Storm Cell or Quick Charge + Electric Current. Pretty much any serious Raiden variation is going to start with one of those two load outs.

I think he's mainly a whiff punish, mid range character. With the buffs to his B12 string and B14 string that's where most of his stagger game comes from. If he has any potential setups it's likely using Lightning Rod, but that move is too inconsistent and inefficient to be an actual competitive strategy at this point.
thanks for the info. Doesnt sound to promising :(
I find storm cell so weak because of how the second part can be neutral ducked for a full combo punish.
 

Marlow

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It's not that bad. A lot of the time you should be whiff punishing so the opponent blocking is not an issue, and you can always hit confirm off of B12. B12 is -8 so technically it's punishable, but there's a ton of options Raiden can do, so it's not so simple for the opponent to punish. Especially if you forgo teleport and add something like Lightning Storm.

Storm Cell is a great move. Hits a huge area, extends combos and leads to great damage, does a lot of chip. It's unsafe, but that's par for the course when it comes to almost any move in MK11 that launches. I'd say give Raiden a try.
 

Metin

White Ramses
i tried many custom Raiden but can't feel comfortable as much as Thunder Wave, so i am happy with Thunder Wave, it is the best combination imo. But Raiden has some Cool abilities for fun.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
If you use lightning storm at around half screen distance many a times people will try to jump at you. You can AMP on reaction and it surprisingly catches a lot of jump attempts and you can stomp them back to full screen (whereas stomping a grounded opponent causes a close knock down).
243~DU AMP, 3 also combos in the corner for some swag 21%. Since characters can unfortunately breakaway before summon lightning hits them, doing this might be worthwhile not really for damage but more to be floating on their wake-up and attempt to either punish or do a meaty stomp (idk for sure though, haven’t really labbed this yet so just throwing it out there)
 

Marlow

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Exploring Superbolt, Lightning Storm, and Lightning Rod as a variation
Cool setups, although they seem pretty tricky to actually get against a real opponent. I'm actually starting to think that if your goal is to use Lightning Rod it pairs best with Sparkport.
 

NeroOps

Death Before Dishonor
Cool setups, although they seem pretty tricky to actually get against a real opponent. I'm actually starting to think that if your goal is to use Lightning Rod it pairs best with Sparkport.
Well the side switch only works if the opponent ducks the superbolt ability and you have to be at the correct distance. So yeah it would be tricky also risky.
I think lightning rod would pair with majority of his abilities because it forces the opponent to turtle in one spot giving you the advantage to control the opponents movement.
I was actually thinking about trying the sparkport but i might just continue using jo push and lightning rod.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Well the side switch only works if the opponent ducks the superbolt ability and you have to be at the correct distance. So yeah it would be tricky also risky.
I think lightning rod would pair with majority of his abilities because it forces the opponent to turtle in one spot giving you the advantage to control the opponents movement.
I was actually thinking about trying the sparkport but i might just continue using jo push and lightning rod.
Wouldn’t opponents just be able to sit in the bubble shooting projectiles? You mentioned that these setups can be distance specific, and we all know a charged, safe super bolt takes 37f to startup. Which means many opponents have enough time to throw at least 1 projectile (with/without AMP) to check Raiden’s movement, and to burn down the short timer on the AMP bubble.
 

NeroOps

Death Before Dishonor
Wouldn’t opponents just be able to sit in the bubble shooting projectiles? You mentioned that these setups can be distance specific, and we all know a charged, safe super bolt takes 37f to startup. Which means many opponents have enough time to throw at least 1 projectile (with/without AMP) to check Raiden’s movement, and to burn down the short timer on the AMP bubble.
Yes a projectile is an defensive option while turtling in the bubble but its risky for them when you can redirect raiden projectiles from the staff
Also for superbolt case it doesn't mean they'll throw a projectile out if you're close. Not like you don't have a unsafe cancel option or the ability to not charge.
Whole point of the bubble is to control the opponent and minimize their movement. The combo extension is extra so if it disappears then you try to set up another one.
Teleporting, fatal blow, and blocking until pushed out are the only options that's safe to get out the bubble.
Every other option besides the three above can be more of a punishable risk. Ex. wake up attacks, rolling, and jumping.

Also the side switch in superbolt might be character specific. I can't seem to do it on sonya which is awkward since she has a female collision box but whatever this game does all kinds of awkward shit at times.
 

Marlow

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Yes a projectile is an defensive option while turtling in the bubble but its risky for them when you can redirect raiden projectiles from the staff
The problem there is Raiden's projectiles are 27 frames. It's really hard to set up the Rod to get a guaranteed projectile. If you go for it after a string like B12 it leaves Raiden +10, so if the opponent has a 16 frame projectile or less they'll likely be able to trade pretty close at worst, if not straight out beat raiden before the staff re-direction kicks in. Same thing if you try and set up the rod after a hard knockdown like F32 or after ending a combo in summon lightning.

I've also found that in matches some opponents simply immediately walk back into the bubble or try and jump out of, taking the small amount of damage but removing the rod, and then they're usually able to have enough time to block or the projectile misses them while they're in the air.

That's why I think if Raiden is going to use the Rod, his best option to pair with it is teleport. That way if he puts the opponent in the bubble and they try and go with a projectile he teleport in and punish.
 

Marlow

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one other thought on Rod:

If your goal is to use the rod for setups, then I think the move that works best with it would be the Rolling Thunder. Lock the opponent down down in the bubble, then throw out the cloud and hopefully force them to eat DOT or get hit with a setup. Something like Lightning Storm, Rolling Thunder, and Lightning Rod could have some potential synergy there. Lightning Storm can be used in conjunction with F4 for some braindead poke/chip pressure, and options on opponents wakeup. Or you can trade out lightning storm and use storm cell, that way you still have great combo damage.

I think if Super Bolt makes sense in a variation, it pairs better with something like Quick Charge and Electric Current. It gives Raiden a way to get in and pressure wakeups after ending a combo in Summon Lightning.
 

NeroOps

Death Before Dishonor
The problem there is Raiden's projectiles are 27 frames. It's really hard to set up the Rod to get a guaranteed projectile. If you go for it after a string like B12 it leaves Raiden +10, so if the opponent has a 16 frame projectile or less they'll likely be able to trade pretty close at worst, if not straight out beat raiden before the staff re-direction kicks in. Same thing if you try and set up the rod after a hard knockdown like F32 or after ending a combo in summon lightning.

I've also found that in matches some opponents simply immediately walk back into the bubble or try and jump out of, taking the small amount of damage but removing the rod, and then they're usually able to have enough time to block or the projectile misses them while they're in the air.

That's why I think if Raiden is going to use the Rod, his best option to pair with it is teleport. That way if he puts the opponent in the bubble and they try and go with a projectile he teleport in and punish.
If you read that they're going to throw out a projectile then forward jump attack or duck, then use his f4 or f2. You have way more options than your opponent when they're trapped in the bubble.

Walking out the bubble or jumping out the bubble is more risky for the opponent because raiden can combo punish them for not respecting the bubble.
If they try to walk out the bubble while you're doing the projectile that leaves them open for the projectile to punish them.
If they jump out and your projectile whiffs and they get hit by the bubble but raidens recovery too slow to react to them falling out the air then you find a way to setup the amp rod again. Even then you still have the advantage because you'll recovery before the opponent recovers after being hit by the bubble.

Teleporting close to them leaves you open for a punish if they don't decide to throw a projectile out. Lucky for you if the string they use to punish you pushes them out the bubble and the bubble effect hits them then you have the advantage.

His amp rod would be a great way to setup his rolling thunder ability, especially in the corner. Just saying.
 

Marlow

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If you read that they're going to throw out a projectile then forward jump attack or duck, then use his f4 or f2. You have way more options than your opponent when they're trapped in the bubble.
I guess the thing to do would be to try setting up B12~amped rod, F32 knockdown into amped Rod, and Summon Lightning into Amped Rod and seeing what options Raiden has and how the opponent can counter. I'm just not sure the options are really in Raiden's favor. He basically needs to hard commit to either going for a projectile, going for a F4 or Dash D4, or going for a jump attack from a far range. Opponent can beat almost all of those, or simply block and take the chip. It's decent chip, but for the cost of a bar and limited follow up? Just doesn't seem worth it.

Teleporting close to them leaves you open for a punish if they don't decide to throw a projectile out.
But it also gives you a more legit way to punish them if they do decide to throw a projectile. Once they respect the teleport, then you can actually start to hit them with Lightning Strike for the good chip damage.