Liu Kang's F4 is now 11 frames. Will the Liu Kang is broken hysteria die now?

[MKF30]

No, because they gave him a teleport and command throw lol. I guess LK really is Godly in this game.

 

[DeftMonk]

I never seen such downplay... At the end of season one I swapped to liu kang. I realized holy shit this man has all kinds of KB and oki LETS GO. Then it wasn't so much the fact the character wasnt fun. Just that I realized as soon as nerfs were to be handed out this man is goin to be top tier and that made me find somethin else. When you are playing top tier you never really know how hard the nerf hammer is gonna hit. OH NO f4 CANT BE SPAMMED FOR MY DOWN SYNDROME PLAY STYLE TO BE USEFUL ANYMORE? HE SUX! Actually this nerf prob wont do a damn thing. He still has a hit confirmable safe,staggerable 9f mid with b1 (albeit range is slightly closer than previous with f4) KBs out the fucking yin yang and his poke game is great. Lets let this play out: liu hits you with d1.... you A. are scrub and try to throw or d1 back: eat 12 into full combo. B you are blocking his next two hit string. YOU GONNA BE ABLE TO INTERRUPT f4? I think you know already.

 

[TotteryManx]

2 additional frames aren't going to help those who are getting bopped by his staggers. Throw in a command grab and in theory he is actually better than before. Time will tell.

 

[Vslayer]

Of course people will still complain, they're waiting for a pro to cry about another character to jump on a bandwagon.

 

[Tony at Home]

I predict this nerf will plummet him from top 1 all the way down to top 1

 

[Dante]

F4 still steals turns after blocked pokes.

 

[Invincible Salads]

can he do anything with his plus frames off of f43u4 now or nah? if you block that can you just jab him now?

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

F4 still steals turns after blocked pokes.

A blocked poke is the end of your turn with any character.
His F4 is now 11f so if you block F4/F43 he can't follow with F4 unless you are sleeping or very conditioned or just make a bad read.
This will definitely effect him in many ways.
He will still be top tier just will have to utilize more moves instead if relying on F4 for everything.
His B1 is definitely good and strong at 9f but it has virtually no range and he has to be kissing them so he won't be slapping 9f mids in your face. This is good but I'd say B1 is better now because of the tick throw.

can he do anything with his plus frames off of f43u4 now or nah? if you block that can you just jab him now?

He can do 12 but most options are gone from his F43U3 +4 because he needed to micro dash into F4 prepatch to connect a follow up. Now he doesn't have a 9f mid that reaches. Its 11f start-up so 7f will trade. Will have to test but they might be able to jump out if he does F4 after his +4.

This change will definitely effect him since F4 had his best range other than B34 which starts at 16f. His B1 has almost no range so I fail to see what he can follow up with other than highs that are beat with pokes along with F4.
It will also apply to his staggers.

 

[Invincible Salads]

A blocked poke is the end of your turn with any character.
His F4 is now 11f so if you block F4/F43 he can't follow with F4 unless you are sleeping or very conditioned or just make a bad read.
This will definitely effect him in many ways.
He will still be top tier just will have to utilize more moves instead if relying on F4 for everything.
His B1 is definitely good and strong at 9f but it has virtually no range and he has to be kissing them so he won't be slapping 9f mids in your face. This is good but I'd say B1 is better now because of the tick throw.


He can do 12 but most options are gone from his F43U3 +4 because he needed to micro dash into F4 prepatch to connect a follow up. Now he doesn't have a 9f mid that reaches. Its 11f start-up so 7f will trade. Will have to test but they might be able to jump out if he does F4 after his +4.

This change will definitely effect him since F4 had his best range other than B34 which starts at 16f. His B1 has almost no range so I fail to see what he can follow up with other than highs that are beat with pokes along with F4.
It will also apply to his staggers.

good, now i've got more options against his pressure.

 

[Invincible Salads]

so theres no real urgency to interrupt his f43u4 if you don't want to now, so thats good.

 

[OnlineSkunk]

Probably one of the bigger announcements during the Kombat Kast yesterday is LK's "broken" F4 will be 2 frames slower now.

But...... gasp....... hes gonna have a command grab now!!!!

Will this kill the hysteria?

When they cut his limbs and sew his lips I'll stop complaining, my character on the other hand better get a COD: MW Juggernaut suit.

 

[xKMMx]

F4 still steals turns after blocked pokes.

How?

 

[JJParker]

Not sure how it would work but I was thinking it would be good if they change the string so that you have to press f43 to make the first three hits come out and take away the stagger after f4. That way the only stagger the string has is wether the player presses u3 to finish the full string or not.

 

[Wigy]

I'd Like to point out I did say that NRS thought only needing F4 would balance him. I was right.

Ahem
But for real this will effect many LK players. I had multiple guides up to help others deal with his options and pressure.

His 12 will have less options because F4 can be interrupted by 7-8f starters and pokes stopping the pressure loop.

His F4 won't have the same utility and won't be able to follow up many of his staggers ranging from -2 to -7 on block. Also consider his F4 and F43 are already -7 and that allows 17f moves to interrupt the followup F4 from a F4 stagger.
His B1 is still 9f startup but it doesn't have any range so its not threatening like F4 was. Even though he has B1 for a fast mid its not used in the neutral like F4 was. This is an overall good change.

But yes those that complained about him before will continue to complain until he is nerfed to the ground. Which I don't think will happen. And from what we heard on the Kombat Kast we know they feel Liu Kang is where they want him to be.

You're saying that like patch is out and he is balanced. Just because NRS made those changes doesn't mean that's all he needed. (Not saying it isn't). Remember, they 'nerfed' geras and Kano has been in an absolutely horrendous state for like 5 months now. NRS is very far from oracles of balance. That being said it could be what he needs.

All that it says currently is that NRS agrees with the community that Liu Kang was overpowered.

 

[Wigy]

Of course people will still complain, they're waiting for a pro to cry about another character to jump on a bandwagon.

Were pros crying about Liu Kang? Were pros crying about scorpion?

There is a lot of crying but I don't get this sentiment.

 

[thlityoursloat]

You're saying that like patch is out and he is balanced. Just because NRS made those changes doesn't mean that's all he needed. (Not saying it isn't). Remember, they 'nerfed' geras and Kano has been in an absolutely horrendous state for like 5 months now. NRS is very far from oracles of balance. That being said it could be what he needs.

All that it says currently is that NRS agrees with the community that Liu Kang was overpowered.

Geras "nerfs" are fucking hilarious. They nerfed absolutely nothing, his KBs were just repurposed, and are still are just as practical. Woopdedoo he doesn't get 3 KBs in a row for counter hitting you, he just gets 3 those KBs in 2-3 combos now.
Meanwhile everything else that made him aids is still here. best d1 in the game by miles? not touched. throw loops? not touched. damage output WITHOUT KBs? not touched. crazy jumpin mixup game? not touched. completely utter deconstruction of any semblance of a neutral game because simply trying to do anything gets you oki'd? not touched. speaking of oki, braindead automatic oki? not touched.
But f212 wasn't good enough so let's buff it.

 

[NickDaGreek1983]

I honeatly don't know if his 3,4xxf43 bicycle kick combo Will now work after a f333launch. It was already TOO hard to land (needless to say just on male characters too) and now with that 2 frame reduction it may not connect. We might be back to 212,f43 bike kick.

 

[Wigy]

I honeatly don't know if his 3,4xxf43 bicycle kick combo Will now work after a f333launch. It was already TOO hard to land (needless to say just on male characters too) and now with that 2 frame reduction it may not connect. We might be back to 212,f43 bike kick.

1 like= 1 prayer.

 

[NickDaGreek1983]

1 like= 1 prayer.

As Bon Jovi said... Well you know!

 

[Kanalratte]

Geras "nerfs" are fucking hilarious. They nerfed absolutely nothing, his KBs were just repurposed, and are still are just as practical. Woopdedoo he doesn't get 3 KBs in a row for counter hitting you, he just gets 3 those KBs in 2-3 combos now.
Meanwhile everything else that made him aids is still here. best d1 in the game by miles? not touched. throw loops? not touched. damage output WITHOUT KBs? not touched. crazy jumpin mixup game? not touched. completely utter deconstruction of any semblance of a neutral game because simply trying to do anything gets you oki'd? not touched. speaking of oki, braindead automatic oki? not touched.
But f212 wasn't good enough so let's buff it.

so true. it's like they wanna keep the cheese in the game.

 

[SOULWARRIOR 71K]

Kano has been in an absolutely horrendous state for like 5 months now.

Given how many of us got trashed by Kanos at @Mr Aquaman CGL event yesterday, I’m not convinced Kano sucks nearly as much as people say he does.

 

[FonicSox]

Given how many of us got trashed by Kanos at @Mr Aquaman CGL event yesterday, I’m not convinced Kano sucks nearly as much as people say he does.

Kano reminds me of Blanka. On paper he's not great, but the reality is the character is flat out uncomfortable to play against because of his yolo nature and forcing weird/ridiculous skirmishes. I can't decide whether that really makes him greater than the sum of his parts, but yeah.

I feel the same way about Shao Kahn although he's blatantly better than Kano is, but same kind of thing. At this point I'm unwilling to accept Shao is anything short of pretty damn good. He's got the tools and he forces similar scrambles but can punish you with normals that span half the screen yet everyone wants to pretend he's Kotal.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Kano reminds me of Blanka. On paper he's not great, but the reality is the character is flat out uncomfortable to play against because of his yolo nature and forcing weird/ridiculous skirmishes. I can't decide whether that really makes him greater than the sum of his parts, but yeah.

I feel the same way about Shao Kahn although he's blatantly better than Kano is, but same kind of thing. At this point I'm unwilling to accept Shao is anything short of pretty damn good. He's got the tools and he forces similar scrambles but can punish you with normals that span half the screen yet everyone wants to pretend he's Kotal.

Well said. Character plays his very own game that is way easier said than done to adapt to. That and half his unsafe shit isn't even that unsafe. Chemical burn is, what, -16? How many characters can consistently punish that? f3 is immune to highs, MB kano ball is practically safe when spaced/delayed right and his 241+3 OS is a bill because no one's going to lab something this hard for a character that's so rarely played.

 

[Innolis]

It's a nothing nerf IMO, just like the one Geras and Sonya got. Changes absolutely nothing about his playstyle, he still dictates the pace of the match. I would've thought they'd at least heavily nerf his projectile game to compensate for the insane neutral he has.

Based on the first balance patch and what little we've seen of this one, it seems NRS is not really interested in changing the status quo. Top tiers are still top tiers and low tiers are mostly still low tiers.

 

[SOULWARRIOR 71K]

Kano reminds me of Blanka. On paper he's not great, but the reality is the character is flat out uncomfortable to play against because of his yolo nature and forcing weird/ridiculous skirmishes. I can't decide whether that really makes him greater than the sum of his parts, but yeah.

I feel the same way about Shao Kahn although he's blatantly better than Kano is, but same kind of thing. At this point I'm unwilling to accept Shao is anything short of pretty damn good. He's got the tools and he forces similar scrambles but can punish you with normals that span half the screen yet everyone wants to pretend he's Kotal.

Shao Kahn is good, just not good in the context of this game’s meta. There’s no real reason to pick Shao Kahn when so many other characters do what he does but better. I main him because I like the character. But playing as him while tying to play at a high level, is basically just asking to work harder for similar or less results. Even our guy VideoGamezYo doesn’t even stick with him 100%.