Liu Kang's F4 is now 11 frames. Will the Liu Kang is broken hysteria die now?

[QueenOmega]

Geras "nerfs" are fucking hilarious. They nerfed absolutely nothing, his KBs were just repurposed, and are still are just as practical. Woopdedoo he doesn't get 3 KBs in a row for counter hitting you, he just gets 3 those KBs in 2-3 combos now.
Meanwhile everything else that made him aids is still here. best d1 in the game by miles? not touched. throw loops? not touched. damage output WITHOUT KBs? not touched. crazy jumpin mixup game? not touched. completely utter deconstruction of any semblance of a neutral game because simply trying to do anything gets you oki'd? not touched. speaking of oki, braindead automatic oki? not touched.
But f212 wasn't good enough so let's buff it.

Well, I think the best we got out of it, it's that now we can fuzzy his 111/low sand shit mix up. It's something mate

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

You're saying that like patch is out and he is balanced. Just because NRS made those changes doesn't mean that's all he needed. (Not saying it isn't). Remember, they 'nerfed' geras and Kano has been in an absolutely horrendous state for like 5 months now. NRS is very far from oracles of balance. That being said it could be what he needs.

All that it says currently is that NRS agrees with the community that Liu Kang was overpowered.

I'm glad they have took a this approach. Minor changes instead of blankets of nerfs like they did on X.
This way characters can still function but get toned down in certain areas but are still able to play their game and the meta.

F4 being 11 frames will nerf a ton of things liu does from follow-ups after staggers, his plus frames including F43U3 and 12 into F4 can be interrupted now. This will allow more counterplay for his opponents while keeping his tools strong but not obscene.
Its now the same speed as jades B3.
He still has other tools like B1 but it has really short range, less than his pokes. All of his tools Have more of a purpose and the change forces him to use more of his other tools.

I think they did good with Liu

I'm hoping Kabal and others got changes we aren't aware of though.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Probably one of the bigger announcements during the Kombat Kast yesterday is LK's "broken" F4 will be 2 frames slower now.

But...... gasp....... hes gonna have a command grab now!!!!

Will this kill the hysteria?

I'm assuming NRS is fixing or fixed his command grab?

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

Given how many of us got trashed by Kanos at @Mr Aquaman CGL event yesterday, I’m not convinced Kano sucks nearly as much as people say he does.

Did you know the MU? If not then you losing to him is irrelevant

 

[GLoRToR]

The hysteria might die but he's still a rushdownzoner that has no flaws.
It's a step in the right direction but he still has a 9f mid that people forget.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

it would be good if they change the string so that you have to press f43 to make the first three hits come out and take away the stagger after f4

Its Already 3 hits. F43 has 3 hits and F4 has 2.
F43U3 has a 10f gap between the 3rd and 4th.

I think they did good by making F4 11f startup.
If you knew the MU prepatch you will have am easier time interrupting him after staggers, plus frames and pressure.
If you didn't know the MU then it will feel the same.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

The hysteria might die but he's still a rushdownzoner that has no flaws.
It's a step in the right direction but he still has a 9f mid that people forget.

Yeah its a good stagger when kissing but it has virtually no range. Less than his D1 almost half.

He won't be able to use the B1 like he did his F4. Can't follow it from F4 stagger/F43 stagger or F43u3 plus frames.
His staggers off F4/212/B3 all have a larger window to interrupt and his F4 can be interrupted after most staggers and his +4 off F43U3.

It will make a difference. On paper it looks like he has another 9f mid to replace F4 but in reality he doesn't. He will still be hella good but there will be more counterplay

 

[GLoRToR]

Yeah its a good stagger when kissing but it has virtually no range. Less than his D1 almost half.

He won't be able to use the B1 like he did his F4. Can't follow it from F4 stagger/F43 stagger or F43u3 plus frames.
His staggers off F4/212/B3 all have a larger window to interrupt and his F4 can be interrupted after most staggers and his +4 off F43U3.

It will make a difference. On paper it looks like he has another 9f mid to replace F4 but in reality he doesn't. He will still be hella good but there will be more counterplay

Have you ever been a character whose only 11f is much shorter than a 11f F4 and got cornered by Liu with B1 up his sleeve?
I fight Lius that already use B1, and they aren't idiots.
I'm sorry to say this man but a poke speed mid is just no. A high, sure.

 

[Name v.5.0]

He still gets like 1800+ damage from easily accessible KBs. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I can poke now, but He can still close out an entire round with just KBs. I don't think a minor nerf in his pressure will stop him from dominating.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Have you ever been a character whose only 11f is much shorter than a 11f F4 and got cornered by Liu with B1 up his sleeve?
I fight Lius that already use B1, and they aren't idiots.
I'm sorry to say this man but a poke speed mid is just no. A high, sure.

For the first 5 months I mained Kotal Ascension which has a 15f mid that isn't hit confirmable or a starter. Then he has a 22f mid that combos and a 17f low.
My entire gameplan vs Liu was out spacing him and tick throwing in his gaps and delaying CMD Grabs so they don't wiff along with gimmicky unblockable setups for 14% since the majority of his buttons wiffed.

As for Liu's B1 it is nowhere even close to the same utility as his old 9f F4. Great for staggers but not meant to catch you playing footsie.

Them needing his F4 from 9-11f is a great change. I suspect many don't understand how that changed him yet but once better players start interrupting him trying to use F4 the same ways I'm betting we see many bandwagon LK's move to other toons like the new improved Jacqui that has 50% combos from fullscreen that virtually have no hurtbox.

 

[GLoRToR]

For the first 5 months I mained Kotal Ascension which has a 15f mid that isn't hit confirmable or a starter. Then he has a 22f mid that combos and a 17f low.
My entire gameplan vs Liu was out spacing him and tick throwing in his gaps and delaying CMD Grabs so they don't wiff along with gimmicky unblockable setups for 14% since the majority of his buttons wiffed.

My favourite is when I space him for half a round, I'm at full hp, got him at half hp and then on a wrong read he hits me for more damage than I've done to him all round. No, sorry, he's still not a fair character.

As for Liu's B1 it is nowhere even close to the same utility as his old 9f F4. Great for staggers but not meant to catch you playing footsie.

This is true. But once he's got you in the corner, it's big because it's a mid that's faster than a d4.

Them needing his F4 from 9-11f is a great change. I suspect many don't understand how that changed him yet but once better players start interrupting him trying to use F4 the same ways I'm betting we see many bandwagon LK's move to other toons like the new improved Jacqui that has 50% combos from fullscreen that virtually have no hurtbox.

Indeed. I'm not worried that NRS will suddenly make game balance. I just hope Jade will be brought up to the same level where Liu, Sonya, Geras etc are eventually like Kitana was in mkx trash at first and then got fixed.

 

[xKMMx]

I'm assuming NRS is fixing or fixed his command grab?

From what I understood they just said his new variation will have a command grab. Not sure if its from the custom moves menu cause ive never played casuals.... but ive never seen it so its new to me.

But if your referring to wether or not he is still able to tick throw off staggers then no he can still do that with normal grab so you still need to be on your teching game or make good reads.

 

[SOULWARRIOR 71K]

Did you know the MU? If not then you losing to him is irrelevant

Forget about me, I’m a nobody and only got 9th. An example was Forever King getting 3-0ed in Winner’s Finals. Another player Momsaidmash (clearly a hidey) was putting in work. If I recall, there were like 3 Kanos in top 8. My point is that it was just low level players getting washed because we don’t know the matchup. If someone clicks with a character, they can still put in work even if the character doesn’t appear to be the greatest.

 

[OutworldKeith]

From what I understood they just said his new variation will have a command grab. Not sure if its from the custom moves menu cause ive never played casuals.... but ive never seen it so its new to me.

But if your referring to wether or not he is still able to tick throw off staggers then no he can still do that with normal grab so you still need to be on your teching game or make good reads.

From what I'm reading, it looks like NRS is just taking a non-tournament preset variation & making it the 3rd option.

His command grab sucks btw. Barely has any tick setups.

Unless they plan on altering a lot of these moves, 3rd variation will be a big fail.

 

[cavemold]

it just means if you block the whole string you can safely d3 and maybe d2 ?????

 

[Vslayer]

LIU IS DEAD RIP BOTTOM 5