What's new

General/Other - Liu Kang Liu Kang Dragon's Fire & Flame Fist General Discussion

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
It doesn't matter if they're the best flamefists or not. They were lacking common knowledge in the match up.

I know basically everything there is to know about the match. You're not going to change my opinion on it, especially when you don't even play the match.
What weren't they doing? I saw the matches, I know flame fist inside and out as well as alien. Yeah they could've punished rekkas a few more times or gotten the 1 frame links. But you could say the exact same for dab. He wasn't punishing the wp's all the time and there were a few more things he couldve done. You're not making sense
 

Tweedy

Noob
What weren't they doing? I saw the matches, I know flame fist inside and out as well as alien. Yeah they could've punished rekkas a few more times or gotten the 1 frame links. But you could say the exact same for dab. He wasn't punishing the wp's all the time and there were a few more things he couldve done. You're not making sense
How am I not making sense?

They missed snag punishes, flip punishes. They were jumping at Alien with Liu Kang. The end of the last game with Ejara, was a complete shit show. You're trying to set a match up in stone based off of two fraudulent FT5s.

Overhead rekkas were held, which are always -15. I mean it was ridiculous at times lol.
 

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
This basically sums up my thoughts on the match. ^^^^

I've had a few people from here hit me up to play, and they've lost, then say "lol how does FF win". I'm sorry that Alien players are making more strides in the MU. Try punishing snag, guys. lol

In the case of Dab vs Ejara/Murk and Dragon vs Elite, the Alien players were just way ahead in the MU. People don't want to admit that because omg Alien aint mkx character where is fujin braindead omgeezus.
You gotta be fucking kidding me. This guy just said he didn't punish flip or hit him with the 40 plus combos. That's such bullshit tweedy. That'd be like you telling me to do a different jacqui combo or a different shinnok combo. Don't tell a flame fist player how to play and they won't tell an alien player how to mix.
 

Tweedy

Noob
You gotta be fucking kidding me. This guy just said he didn't punish flip or hit him with the 40 plus combos. That's such bullshit tweedy. That'd be like you telling me to do a different jacqui combo or a different shinnok combo. Don't tell a flame fist player how to play and they won't tell an alien player how to mix.
We both know that "1 frame" punishes on this game, are not difficult.

If you say otherwise you're clearly biased and i'm done here.
 

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
How am I not making sense?

They missed snag punishes, flip punishes. They were jumping at Alien with Liu Kang. The end of the last game with Ejara, was a complete shit show. You're trying to set a match up in stone based off of two fraudulent FT5s.

Overhead rekkas were held, which are always -15. I mean it was ridiculous at times lol.
They knew the mu, you had even said they'd played you, dragon, and dab. Two of which are THE aliens. Tweedy, you had the best flame fists vs the best aliens and the aliens won.
 

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
We both know that "1 frame" punishes on this game, are not difficult.

If you say otherwise you're clearly biased and i'm done here.
Tweedy it's more than just the 1 frame punish, you can't hit that everytime. If you can. Then idk what to say bro. You're the best player to walk this earth and youre right on everything. Be realistic tweedy
 

Tweedy

Noob
They knew the mu, you had even said they'd played you, dragon, and dab. Two of which are THE aliens. Tweedy, you had the best flame fists vs the best aliens and the aliens won.
I played 3 games versus Ejara. I lied to hype him up, and I've never played Murk.

I'm a shithead for that. He couldn't even punish snag or overhead rekkas. Overhead rekkas are always -15.

This is a fairy tale argument that you're presenting, though. Whether they're the best or not does not matter. The Liu Kang players left a lot of match up specifics out in their gameplay. The Alien players left out less.
 

Tweedy

Noob
Tweedy it's more than just the 1 frame punish, you can't hit that everytime. If you can. Then idk what to say bro. You're the best player to walk this earth and youre right on everything. Be realistic tweedy
Ominous and Pretty Flocko punish flip 100% of the time. I used to punish EX nutpunch 100% of the time with Kung Lao. There's something on this game that makes just frame or 2 frame punishes easier. We all know that.

And with that I know you're just being biased. Good bye.
 

Tweedy

Noob
I'm tired of this bias towards Alien. Sub Zero does not lose 3-7, Flamefist is not a 5-5. I've played other characters, I understand the game and play these match ups better than most.

If it were Fujin these arguments would not be happening.
 

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
Ominous and Pretty Flocko punish flip 100% of the time. I used to punish EX nutpunch 100% of the time with Kung Lao. There's something on this game that makes just frame or 2 frame punishes easier. We all know that.

And with that I know you're just being biased. Good bye.
Why am I biased?? I know you better than all of the guys were arguing about. And no 1 frame punishes aren't hard, but there are definitely things that make them tricky or inconsistent. Its a bigger gamble off of aliens flip cuz if you miss the punish there are a multitude of things that could fuck you.
Also tweedy, I don't think you know what biased means. If anything you're biased, because you're an alien player and I'm an impartial party. You main one of the characters in this argument and you're trying to save you're own ass from getting blown up. You're on trial and being the jury at the same time. That's being biased tweedy.
 

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
And if you're saying I'm biased towards alien, then oh boy you got it messed up. I don't think he's fair, but neither do you. I made a nerf list and you yourself commented most fair alien nerf list out there. What are you saying dude.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Let's pretend this wasn't the Flame Fist vs Tarkatan matchup, let's say it was.....Leatherface vs Kitana. Would you say the matchup was being played at the highest level if the Leatherfaces weren't punishing blocked fans for a full combo? Because the Liu Kangs weren't punishing flip nor overhead rekka, and that's a lot of damage being left on the table. There's no excuse for missing that punish, besides maybe it being online, but they were doing B1 after blocked flip instead of F1 so that's not even the problem lol.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
Can we be real here? Flip being -7 makes using f1 to punish possible but difficult. A 1 frame punish is a 1 frame punish. It's not a reversal so it has to be timed.

No top player will hit that 100% of the time.

If a robot could punish it 100% than yes it could be a bad mu but that will never happen so...
 

Gustavness

The Tech Whisperer
Can we be real here? Flip being -7 makes using f1 to punish possible but difficult. A 1 frame punish is a 1 frame punish. It's not a reversal so it has to be timed.

No top player will hit that 100% of the time.
Punishing flip is not that hard, the input can be buffered near the end of block stun and youll get it everytime.

Any delay between 2nd and 3rd rekka can be OS and full punished into rolling punches w/ender. Stagger doesnt work for alien either on rekkas, and the low without delay can be full combo punished

Alien wins this matchup by either mixing the shit out of FF or keeping the range at halfscreen. He does not win fullscreen in acidic either, and if he guesses wrong he eats it hard.

This doesnt mean alien isnt a broken piece of glitched crap and doesnt deserve the nerf bat rammed up his tail. He is the best character in the game, no doubt. But he loses this matchup unless he makes the right guesses

The fact that ejara won 3 games and didnt punish a single flip or rekka gap (didnt even try) should speak volumes
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Can we be real here? Flip being -7 makes using f1 to punish possible but difficult. A 1 frame punish is a 1 frame punish. It's not a reversal so it has to be timed.

No top player will hit that 100% of the time.

If a robot could punish it 100% than yes it could be a bad mu but that will never happen so...
I mean these are all really just excuses, if Alien does flip in a space where it's punishable and the Liu player makes the read he's doing flip and therefore blocks it the Liu Kang player should know the punish and do it whenever possible. At the very least try it. It doesn't take a robot to do something that requires a little practice in the lab to figure out the timing for, just a high level player who knows what he's doing. When talking about a matchup we talk about it at the highest level no? At the highest level flips get punished.
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
I ran the mu with dragon offline at summer jam where we could both react and punish everything. He said "tbh i dont know why I thought this was 6 4, alien deals with him fine". Personally its all a matter of opinion but i dunno.
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
Liu players werent punishing the flip or tail snag and dab wasnt punishing raw activations or low fireballs on block which are -16 -20 iirc. The matches werent played at the highest level imo but it gave insight on how the mu may be.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
I ran the mu with dragon offline at summer jam where we could both react and punish everything. He said "tbh i dont know why I thought this was 6 4, alien deals with him fine". Personally its all a matter of opinion but i dunno.
Dragon's Fire or Flame Fist vs Tarkatan?
Liu players werent punishing the flip or tail snag and dab wasnt punishing raw activations or low fireballs on block which are -16 -20 iirc. The matches werent played at the highest level imo but it gave insight on how the mu may be.
Well as long as people realise that wasn't the highest level of the matchup then that's cool, but yeah obviously people have a basic understanding of some of the matchup :)
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
Dragon's Fire or Flame Fist vs Tarkatan?

Well as long as people realise that wasn't the highest level of the matchup then that's cool, but yeah obviously people have a basic understanding of some of the matchup :)
I ran flame fist first and then dragons fire. Yeah i cant say what we saw online was the mu at the highest level at all. Too many things went unpunished from both sides. Personally id give the edge to alien though
 

Tweedy

Noob
Getting pounce or jumping out with pounce, is a lot worse than getting 40% for being right. That's what other characters get.

The match is poop. I'm at my wits end with it. I've tried and tried and tried and tried. Liu Kang can outplay Alien and still win, that's just what it is. I'm tired of these forum dwellers who don't even have Alien unlocked, telling me that it's even because Dab won a couple sets versus players who weren't as far along in the match up, or in the case of Dragon vs Elite, an even more extreme example of that.

The TOs better not put a FF in my bracket at TCW. They will visit 0-3 city courtesy of his biggest counterpick.
 

Tweedy

Noob
Lets be serious about this rn.

If i'm right, in an advantageous guessing game with Ermac, I get 40%. Same with Lao, same with Kano.

If I shift the odds in my favor by using pounce, with Alien, I get just the pounce and sometimes nothing.

The only reason this isn't seen as a bad match, is because it's Alien. It doesn't even have anything to do with Alien's tools versus Liu Kang's, anyways. He'd do fine if he didn't get clipped by everyfuckingthing when trying to jump out.

If someone said "hey guys, if FF Liu Kang was at advantage or even, risk/reward wise after WP, would he be the best in the game?". Everyone would say yes. Obviously yes. The character is balanced by how he can be blown up after WP. If a character can't really blow him up like that, he's god tier.

And don't talk to me about Dab winning some sets. Show me a FF that punishes flip every time, a FF that punishes snag every time. Of course if you're treating Alien like he's safe, when he's not, he's god tier and unstoppable as well.

I'm almost tempted to say that Ejara and Murk threw those sets. I mean how can they not punish snag? I play Ejara and he punishes flip every time. I mean wtf? The Anti Alien Illuminati is in the full effect.