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Match-up Discussion Kung Lao Match-Up Chart December 2012

Yeah I think people are confusing him with Kabal, that's the guy that has no even matchups and no bad matchups lol
But yeah you want to know what I noticed is, you talk about beating all Laos you fought, but you haven't fought mines yet ;)
man but you went sonya on my reptile, so i was like screw that and went cage to beat your sonya in top 8. Then you counterpicked me again and went kenshi, but I was like aight then reptilian time, then won in an amazing and hype fight haha. But i'd fight your lao any day tho, I aint never scared (ignore the double negative in that haha).
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
kung laos d4 plays a huge role in this matchup and kitana cannot use her d4 because it doesnt have range.

kitana doesnt start offense that easy against kung lao either.

when you saw those lao players play against 16 bit were they even playing the matchup right?
Kitana's D4 has long range, the speed of it is slow but on hit she gets advantage.

Kitana's D1 keeps Kung Lao out and it starts offense. She also has Mileena's cheap D3 mini hitbox.

Every one of those Kung Lao players claimed Kitana was 5-5 until 16Bit defeated them all, it's Kitana's advantage. It has always been even when the game came out, Kung Lao had 1 bad match up only prior to his final nerf. Even to this day, Kitana controls the entire pace of the match since Kung Lao has to take risks and he has to work much harder to win. He makes one mistake, he loses half his life and if he jumps into her Air Fan whether by a Dive Kick or Teleport whiff he eats 30% every time. How does he even abuse 21 24 when Kitana has a small hitbox plus her D1 D3?

Any Kung Lao player who wants to prove Kitana is not a bad match up should play 16Bit. Even when FOREVER KING was playing with 16Bit on stream, it still looked hard for Kung Lao he basically had to make the right guess and when he guessed wrong he got punished hard with big damage. Kitana gets to play risky against Kung Lao since nearly everything she does is safe on block. Kitana can whiff punish Kung Lao's gdlk D4 you speak of with F2,1 when she baits it. Kung Lao loses his mobility, air control, can't be poke happy and Spin out of nowhere on impulse as she can fish for things easier than he could do on her. Kitana can turtle the match, her fans are deadly and his hats isn't enough to keep her out.

I agree with KING, the Kung Lao up playing needs to stop he has his troubled match ups but nothing that he can't overcome. It takes work and skill to play a risky character like him instead of picking easy safe braindead characters to win with. Kung Lao is still Top 5.
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
Sindel 7-3
I love your honest Kung Lao MU chart KING, nice work!

Except Sindel should be 2-8, she virtually can't do anything, can't zone, slow normals, immobile, giant hitbox she is free.

Why is Kitana and Kenshi 2-8 allowed as being worst possible ever, Kung Lao rapes the Queen same way.

Good as KeyWestBoi was with his gdlk Sindel from your experience, your Kung Lao has evolved and leveled up hard.
 

swiftNY2

Noob
Kabal beats Kung Lao for sure, Kabal is the best character in the game and when played perfectly it is impossible to lose with him. Kabal beats almost every character in the game from any position on the screen. He has normals that give him +9 on block and dash cancels in which it is always a 50/50 guess that you have to guess to poke out or you have to guess if Kabal is going to end his block string with a special move OR you have to guess if he isn't even going to cancel his dash and let it rip. It's retarded. His overhead hookswords and his low buzz saw special moves make it so that everytime Kabal does a block string on you, he can end with either of those two special moves so you have to guess to block low or high. Or he can just dash cancel bullshit. Literally everytime Kabal touches you is a mix-up. Let us not even discuss Kabal's zoning. He is consistently building meter off of everything he does whether it is zoning NDCs or being attacked. Kabal doesn't even have EVEN match-ups, let alone losing match-ups. So Kung Lao vs Kabal is definitely 4-6 in Kabal's favor. If you want me to go more into the Kabal vs Kung Lao match-up details, Kabal can literally IAGB so close to the ground that it is hard for Kung Lao to get in, and when Kung Lao teleports Kabal has enough time to stop IAGB and punish the teleport if the Kabal player is doing the IAGB good enough. So basically every single teleport can eat EX Nomad Dash, and Kabal always has meter. Literally ALL of Kung Lao's special moves on block can be full combo punished by Kabal. Sure Kung Lao has a spin to stop Kabal's pressure, but are you really going to just randomly guess a spin that if it gets blocked, Kabal will launch you for 35+% into F+4 into dash cancel into standing 2 NDC and more pressure? This matchup is not even lol. People do not understand that yeah some Kabal players lose because he is kind of an execution heavy character and people mess up his shit, but if Kabal is mastered and played perfectly and got max damage off of all possible combos than I don't think Kabal would even have a 6-4 matchup, everything would be 7-3 or higher in his favor.

Cyrax could be argued 5-5 or 4-6 in Cyrax's favor, but Cyrax definitely has more options in this matchup and it is alot more comfortable for Cyrax. His anti-air grab helps alot vs Kung Lao's teleports and jumping around dive kicking etc. When Kung Lao starts his offense vs Cyrax, after all of Kung Lao's block strings Cyrax can just d1 before Kung Lao does anything else so it is hard for Lao to keep his offense going. The ONLY way for Kung Lao to stop Cyrax's d1 after a block string is to spin, but again the spin is VERY risky vs Cyrax because a blocked spin can lead to a 100% combo. If Kung Lao has a breaker, and spins, and Cyrax blocks it, Cyrax can just do 2~net than perform a 60% unbreakable combo on him basically saying "Fuck your breaker Kung Lao" lol. Kung Lao won't even get a chance to use the breaker he has. Kung Lao definitely has to use his mobility to the fullest in this matchup, and he is not helpless vs Cyrax, but Cyrax definitely has slight advantage. I have been playing both characters for a long time now and have played this matchup in particular from both standpoints many of times. In conclusion I will say 4-6 in Cyrax's favor.

Cage is also another match-up that can be argued 5-5 or 4-6 in Cage's favor. But let's be serious here, when is the last time anyone has ever even seen Kung Lao beat Cage in a tournament? Can anyone name one? I can't, but I can name multiple times where Cage has beaten Kung Lao in tournament. But to get into the match-up, Kung Lao players usually like to play rushdown and a more close-up perspective fighting game. But, Cage is the best rushdown character in the game and he wants to be in the opponent's face the whole entire game, that is the goal for Cage. This makes it kind of a struggle for most Kung Lao players, you can't really rushdown like you want to in this matchup. You have to lame Cage out. But let's be serious here, some Kabals, Freddys, and Kenshis have trouble laming Cage out.... What the fuck is Kung Lao going to do to lame Cage out? lol it is really tough. Low hats and straight hats aren't going to keep Cage out forever. This is definitely one of Kung Lao's toughest matchups. When Cage gets up on you, you need to try to 21 out of his pressure because Kung Lao's 21 is much faster than all of Cage's strings. Cage also has alot of frame traps that keep you committed to block and some frame traps Kung Lao can spin out of, but also Cage can just bait your spin and full combo whiff punish. Another thing very annoying about Cage is his low hit box, which is another problem for Kung Lao that makes 21 whiff and alot of 1121 whiff on Cages' crouch block. NEVER random teleport on Cage you will get blown up by back dash standing 1 or backdash b3 every single time. Sometimes you can rely on spin to get out of Cages favor, but than again a spin on block will get blown up badly and lead to 30+% and nutpunch reset. Back into Cage's pressure all over again ):

Kitana can be argued as 5-5 or 4-6 in her favor, but either way it is still only slight favor to Kitana. If you could use .5 I would say 4.5-5.5 Kitana favor. I don't really feel like going into the matchup right now, you can ask @gga 16bit

Nobody ever said Kenshi was a bad matchup

My list currently states Sonya matchup is even, but I see where alot of people are coming from when they try to say Sonya favor. It is arguable either way
 

swiftNY2

Noob
I play with lao and Kitana like 90% or the time through my 3 thousand or so matches online. I'm not an amazing player but i can do all there BnB's and punish with both over 50% occasionally. BUT anyway to the point i agree. Slight edge over KL with Cage and Cyrax (can't even poke out of Kabal consistantly online). When i play a good Cyrax it feels like i can't fail any combo opp or make mobility mistakes. And if i do i'm like down in health most of the round and get pressured for safer play. Cage frame traps just work and its easy to do. Unless your perfect with Lao in that Cage setting its hard to say its even. 6 - 4 cage vs Lao agreed.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
why are you even mentioning teleport and the divekick in this matchup it doesnt matter whether she punsihes that hard or not because youre not going to use them in this matchup. you can use tele instant 3 on read at fullscreen when you know she is going to throw an air fan but thats it. kung lao doesnt need to rush kitana down, just take a small lifelead of 10-15% and back away. she does not do as well when she has to chase you and start offense because you have 21 which is 7 frames and because you are turtling you can amke sure you have the required stance for 24spin. she can try to approach you with pokes but just block them they dont do chip and just counterpoke with d4 and back away again, she doesnt have any low overhead mixup she can use to really hurt you. if she ever gets to hit you, its easier for lao to chase kitana than it is for her to chase kung lao.


Turtle KL trying to lame Kitana out with 2,1 and d+4 sounds like the least threatening opponent for Kitana ever.
 

Death

Noob
Yeah I don't think dashing into KL for a throw is the best idea lol. I think most KLs don't play the mu right and are too crazy with teles and whiffed dive kicks. Kitanas blow that style up.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
Yeah I don't think dashing into KL for a throw is the best idea lol. I think most KLs don't play the mu right and are too crazy with teles and whiffed dive kicks. Kitanas blow that style up.

What Lao is "playing this MU right?"

The Lao community is constantly saying stuff like this. Yet Carl and King are the best Lao's I've ever played.
 
Ok so now you're hitting buttons....


If "d+4 and 2,1. She can't do anything!" is how Kitana vs. Kung Lao is a 5-5 MU than Kitana vs. Cage and what not must be like 2-8 for her.
no not anyone has a 7 frame jab with a horizontal hitbox like that which also connects on crouch block. not saying kitana cant do anything but its harder for kitana to chase you than it is for kitana if kung lao tries to rush her down too hard.

if you think the matchup should be played diferently, why dont you just brief us on how the matchup should be played?
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
no not anyone has a 7 frame jab with a horizontal hitbox like that which also connects on crouch block. not saying kitana cant do anything but its harder for kitana to chase you than it is for kitana if kung lao tries to rush her down too hard.

if you think the matchup should be played diferently, why dont you just brief us on how the matchup should be played?

I don't understand why you think Kitana would be "chasing" Kung Lao. Kitana has hella fast dash and "getting in" for her means sweep distance. She gets in and starts playing her game on Lao whenever she wants.

If this MU is 5-5 because Lao can keep her out with d+4 then a lot of the typical Kitana MU numbers are way off because there's many characters with far better tools for that than Kung Lao. I'm cool with going down that road though, just means Kitana would drop way down on the tier list.


I already said...Carl and King are the best Lao's I've played. Neither are afraid to go nuts with spins, teleports and dive kicks. King at Frosty came the closest to beating me in tournament and he was taking risks frequently. You guys would have told him he was playing the MU wrong.