Match-up Discussion Kung Lao Match-Up Chart December 2012

[YOMI MITYEAP]

IDC about krayzie matchup chart, or yours or Your bro, all of us have diff opinions and experience against other matchups, We should have your brother cyrax fight Jr's Lao on a money match and you will see what i'm talking about depending on who wins the matchup will be dictated, There is no cyrax that has beaten Jr on his tournament history and seriously He and Reo are the only consistnet players that i know that know how to fight any cyrax at their best. He might easily get 5-0 like winterwarz has done multiple times, hey and winterwarz is no slouch, he beat forever king in a tournament not Long ago.
Lets just leave it like this and let 2 players face each other since noone believe me that i have enough experience on this matchup.

i mean i dnt know if cdjr would want to go lao vs my bro, Vegas has a very good history vs lao/ we always beat PL. there's no way he'll get 5 0'd my friend, also cdjr played showtime in a MM vs sonya and some say that mu is 5 5 and cdjr lost 3 0. Not dissing cdjr, homie won heck of tournaments and is one of the best players in our community without a doubt. Also if cdjr played denzell in tournament lao vs rax, i'm sorry but denzell would win, that mu 6 4 and there's many reasons for it. Also me and denzell have a great track record vs rax in tournament, i've actually beaten all top raxs except mustard. We'll just let em fight it out like men my friend, theory fighting just won't solve anything, and I for one know you have alot of experience vs lao, i acknowledge your opionion of lao for sure.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

And BTW people shouldn't listen to PL when he says cyrax beats Lao and then he has personally told me that he doesn't know the matchup, too much contradiction, how can you say such character beats such when you dont even know the matchup, and BTW a player beating other on a matchup doesn't mean the matchup is against or in favor of any of the chars, players got outplayed sometimes.

this is true as well, but even if PL doesn't know the mu, others know the mu and i've heard many laos say cyrax wins the mu, i guess your bro will have to prove us wrong.

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

I agree it's 7-3 Lao against Baraka but how do I play this match up. I THOUGHT I knew this mu but I've been losing my ass to Laos lately and I'm not happy

 

[Big Pampering]

Jr knows how to fight cyrax at the higheest possible level, i'm not talking smack here, Lao don't have to risky with teleports and can spam safe low hats, he forces cyrax to jump, cyrax can't do random nets on Lao if the Lao knows when to do his hats, cyrax can't do Nets either cause the Lao can do dive Kick on reaction, he has plenty time for this, is just a matter of patience, I destroy Laos pretty bad caue i know that match too much, but also Jr destroys cyraxes pretty bad cause of his knowledge,. Lao can also to teleports on reaction to net and punish cyrax for it, cyrax has to be very careful so does Lao. tis is a matter of the Lao having vast experience on how to fight cyrax since cyrax has adv if the Lao is not experienced and patience enough. This matchup is dead even so everyone who think is not GTFOH. one of these days i put some of these matches in videos so people see what i'm talking about.

Im always open to others opinions, I'll wait until we can see jr fight against a top cyrax and show us how that matchup works. Also I don't think we can go off tournament results of lao yet because we haven't really seen a lot of lao since last patch. all these so called bad matchups like kitana arent even bad imo. like 16 bit said he always beats kung laos but at the same time nobody punishes his cutters with 21 spin, so how can people say kung lao loses when no kl player punishes d1 cutter in tourney yet, kitana loses 43% if the kung lao players likes to use meter for combos like I do. so how is that not a big thing kung lao players have been missing in this matchup?

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Im always open to others opinions, I'll wait until we can see jr fight against a top cyrax and show us how that matchup works. Also I don't think we can go off tournament results of lao yet because we haven't really seen a lot of lao since last patch. all these so called bad matchups like kitana arent even bad imo. like 16 bit said he always beats kung laos but at the same time nobody punishes his cutters with 21 spin, so how can people say kung lao loses when no kl player punishes d1 cutter in tourney yet, kitana loses 43% if the kung lao players likes to use meter for combos like I do. so how is that not a big thing kung lao players have been missing in this matchup?

i know of two laos who punish d1 cutter for sure (my bro and cdjr), that is a big thing, but you can't deny no one stopping the top kitana with lao, bit is undefeated and hasn't lost to one of them yet, heck he was in a room full of them one time and beat them all. Kit punishes a blocked spin hard and can punish a tele/ dive kick hard with an air fan. I seriously think that ppl are trying to upplay lao like he loses no mus, he isn't kabal, that's the ONLY char in the game who has NO bad mus. I wish more ppl understood lao at the highest lvl, bcuz when i see ppl say he only has like 2 bad mus, i just smh.

 

[Big Pampering]

i know of two laos who punish d1 cutter for sure (my bro and cdjr), that is a big thing, but you can't deny no one stopping the top kitana with lao, bit is undefeated and hasn't lost to one of them yet, heck he was in a room full of them one time and beat them all. Kit punishes a blocked spin hard and can punish a tele/ dive kick hard with an air fan. I seriously think that ppl are trying to upplay lao like he loses no mus, he isn't kabal, that's the ONLY char in the game who has NO bad mus. I wish more ppl understood lao at the highest lvl, bcuz when i see ppl say he only has like 2 bad mus, i just smh.

why are you even mentioning teleport and the divekick in this matchup it doesnt matter whether she punsihes that hard or not because youre not going to use them in this matchup. you can use tele instant 3 on read at fullscreen when you know she is going to throw an air fan but thats it. kung lao doesnt need to rush kitana down, just take a small lifelead of 10-15% and back away. she does not do as well when she has to chase you and start offense because you have 21 which is 7 frames and because you are turtling you can amke sure you have the required stance for 24spin. she can try to approach you with pokes but just block them they dont do chip and just counterpoke with d4 and back away again, she doesnt have any low overhead mixup she can use to really hurt you. if she ever gets to hit you, its easier for lao to chase kitana than it is for her to chase kung lao.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

why are you even mentioning teleport and the divekick in this matchup it doesnt matter whether she punsihes that hard or not because youre not going to use them in this matchup. you can use tele instant 3 on read at fullscreen when you know she is going to throw an air fan but thats it. kung lao doesnt need to rush kitana down, just take a small lifelead of 10-15% and back away. she does not do as well when she has to chase you and start offense because you have 21 which is 7 frames and because you are turtling you can amke sure you have the required stance for 24spin. she can try to approach you with pokes but just block them they dont do chip and just counterpoke with d4 and back away again, she doesnt have any low overhead mixup she can use to really hurt you. if she ever gets to hit you, its easier for lao to chase kitana than it is for her to chase kung lao.

why am i mentioning teles and divekicks? let's see, because laos use them all the time. Pls dnt act like they wont tele or divekick at all vs her, that's crazy talk. You're forgetting how hard she punishes lao for a mistake, it is a big thing to know. Lao's will take risks at times bcuz they'll be in a bad situation or they dnt want they're opponent thinking they can just counterpoke after a 2,1, so they'll let a spin rip. Also his pressure is high hits, so she can get under those easily and get a lead then force him to try and get in. 2,1 is nothing when you can just get under it. If he whiffs anything, lights out. Also she has farther range moves, so yes lao can make them whiff, but if lao whiffs, it's the same result except she gets more damage. Look at 16 bit and CD's track record vs laos, they seem to win vs them alot. Lao isn't a defensive character either, so when chars like cage force him to play that way, he's playing a style that he's not even made to play, that's why he has so much trouble with chars who make it hard for him to rush down. 6 4 kitana, i might have to bring GGA 16 Bit into this.

 

[Obs_SmSwag]

that

Is this that one tournament from Norcal ages ago? If so... you definitely lost lol.

Edit: *Lost to Pboard in Grand finals*

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Is this that one tournament from Norcal ages ago? If so... you definitely lost lol.

that evidence haha.

 

[YOMI DJT]

KL Has no losing matches, only winning ones and 5-5's.

The rules of an even match for KL are simple, and seem to get the waters muddied when they cant do the following: no special teleports, no 21212, no low hats up close, low hit box, spins punished hard, teleports punished with more than uppercuts, no ambiguous crossovers, no random dive kicks, JIP 1 Strings augmented to B1F1, and B333 (hit confirmed spin on b33) and 24 Overhead being punished on block by specials, inability to zone with low hats/projectiles.

All of these are evident and STANDARD in the KL mirror match (except for 24 overhead) and it is a solid 5-5, but for some reason KL supposedly has a few 6-4 MU's where he can use at least one of these in a fight, for example, against Cage, KL can use 1121 on a crouching block and JIP, can zone cage with low hats, ex low hat bullying in the corner,can exploit 21212 teleport grab wiff, can trade a spin with cages f3 after 11f1, can teleport wiff grab out of forceball frame traps, but cannot 24 into low hats or overhead on block.

Unless a character takes away more from KL than the mirror match does, then it can't be a worse match. It isn't possible.

I have yet to hear a convincing argument to this point (I am still open to them), and I have been saying it for along time now. When you lose to Sonya, kitana. Kenshi, Cyrax Kabal etc, it could be you not playing the match up right or the very simple and realistic point that the opponent just plays it better than you and sits at an equal skill level.

na i'm not buying it. when you have a lot more limited options and have to play a lot more different and you have to outplay the other player doesn't make his matchups even. there is no way lao goes 5-5 with everybody and all winning.

 

[YOMI DJT]

IDC about krayzie matchup chart, or yours or Your bro, all of us have diff opinions and experience against other matchups, We should have your brother cyrax fight Jr's Lao on a money match and you will see what i'm talking about depending on who wins the matchup will be dictated, There is no cyrax that has beaten Jr on his tournament history and seriously He and Reo are the only consistnet players that i know that know how to fight any cyrax at their best. He might easily get 5-0 like winterwarz has done multiple times, hey and winterwarz is no slouch, he beat forever king in a tournament not Long ago.
Lets just leave it like this and let 2 players face each other since noone believe me that i have enough experience on this matchup.

lol i body winter 100 to like 1 in cyrax mirror. do you really think winter is as good as me with rax?

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

lol i body winter 100 to like 1 in cyrax mirror. do you really think winter is as good as me with rax?

haha of course you're on another lvl with rax then he is, i'd love for any lao to play you in that mu and a MM too, i'm sorry but my bro would win vs laos from across this country and the globe.

 

[Big Pampering]

why am i mentioning teles and divekicks? let's see, because laos use them all the time. Pls dnt act like they wont tele or divekick at all vs her, that's crazy talk. You're forgetting how hard she punishes lao for a mistake, it is a big thing to know. Lao's will take risks at times bcuz they'll be in a bad situation or they dnt want they're opponent thinking they can just counterpoke after a 2,1, so they'll let a spin rip. Also his pressure is high hits, so she can get under those easily and get a lead then force him to try and get in. 2,1 is nothing when you can just get under it. If he whiffs anything, lights out. Also she has farther range moves, so yes lao can make them whiff, but if lao whiffs, it's the same result except she gets more damage. Look at 16 bit and CD's track record vs laos, they seem to win vs them alot. Lao isn't a defensive character either, so when chars like cage force him to play that way, he's playing a style that he's not even made to play, that's why he has so much trouble with chars who make it hard for him to rush down. 6 4 kitana, i might have to bring GGA 16 Bit into this.

how is not divekicking crazy talk, unless you like to divekick right into fans. kung laos d4 plays a huge role in this matchup and kitana cannot use her d4 because it doesnt have range. 21 hits high but kitana will have to standup and use here pressure when she wants start offense because pokes dont mean shit unless you follow them up with something that does damage. kung lao doesnt have to whiff anything and 21 recovers pretty fast. her standing 2 is one of the best normals in the game but is still high so kung laos d4 is a great counter. kitana doesnt start offense that easy against kung lao either. when you saw those lao players play against 16 bit were they even playing the matchup right? if you think kung laos will dive kick in this matchup then you havent seen lao players play the matchup right.

dive kick is a mobility tool on whiff. if kung lao doesnt have trouble getting in without it he doesnt need to dive kick simple as that.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

how is not divekicking crazy talk, unless you like to divekick right into fans. kung laos d4 plays a huge role in this matchup and kitana cannot use her d4 because it doesnt have range. 21 hits high but kitana will have to standup and use here pressure when she wants start offense because pokes dont mean shit unless you follow them up with something that does damage. kung lao doesnt have to whiff anything and 21 recovers pretty fast. her standing 2 is one of the best normals in the game but is still high so kung laos d4 is a great counter. kitana doesnt start offense that easy against kung lao either. when you saw those lao players play against 16 bit were they even playing the matchup right? if you think kung laos will dive kick in this matchup then you havent seen lao players play the matchup right.

dive kick is a mobility tool on whiff. if kung lao doesnt have trouble getting in without it he doesnt need to dive kick simple as that.

lets see he mentioned these players playing lao( cdjr, curbo, reo, and forgot the rest but other top players who know how to play lao), Also d4 can be whiffed punished hard by kitana, so make sure you keep that in mind my friend. Random question, where do you live? bcuz with your knowledge of lao,you should be hitting up tournaments haha.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Im always open to others opinions, I'll wait until we can see jr fight against a top cyrax and show us how that matchup works. Also I don't think we can go off tournament results of lao yet because we haven't really seen a lot of lao since last patch. all these so called bad matchups like kitana arent even bad imo. like 16 bit said he always beats kung laos but at the same time nobody punishes his cutters with 21 spin, so how can people say kung lao loses when no kl player punishes d1 cutter in tourney yet, kitana loses 43% if the kung lao players likes to use meter for combos like I do. so how is that not a big thing kung lao players have been missing in this matchup?

god i hate when people say this.

EVERYONE can blow up d1 cutter, everyone. Just because lao can interrupt d1 cutter, doesn't mean it's even or a bad MU for her. ANYONE can interrupt it or simply crouch it.

If that were the case, then Kitana would have nothing but 5-5s and below...

 

[Big Pampering]

lets see he mentioned these players playing lao( cdjr, curbo, reo, and forgot the rest but other top players who know how to play lao), Also d4 can be whiffed punished hard by kitana, so make sure you keep that in mind my friend. Random question, where do you live? bcuz with your knowledge of lao,you should be hitting up tournaments haha.

no offense to any of these players but reo and curbo are not lao mains and cd jr didnt understand lao back then like he does now probably. d4's are very whiff punishable but 16 bit will tell you that d4 is one of the best tools to stop kitana from doing her stuff.

sadly I dont live in america, I m dutch. I know a lot about lao because ive maind him for almost 2 years now and do all I can to discover new stuff for countering his weaknesses and stuff. They used to hold tournaments here but the level is obviously not as good as the US. I promise you I will go to the next tourney they hold here if school doesnt get in the way. Ill show you what I can do with lao.

 

[Big Pampering]

god i hate when people say this.

EVERYONE can blow up d1 cutter, everyone. Just because lao can interrupt d1 cutter, doesn't mean it's even or a bad MU for her. ANYONE can interrupt it or simply crouch it.

If that were the case, then Kitana would have nothing but 5-5s and below...

thats one of the biggest things they dont do in the matchup its not the only thing, punishing d1 cutter is the difference between 43% damage and no damage at all.

 

[SZSR]

god i hate when people say this.

EVERYONE can blow up d1 cutter, everyone. Just because lao can interrupt d1 cutter, doesn't mean it's even or a bad MU for her. ANYONE can interrupt it or simply crouch it.

If that were the case, then Kitana would have nothing but 5-5s and below...

Just curious, what about the big hitbox characters? I didn't think they could crouch cutter.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Just curious, what about the big hitbox characters? I didn't think they could crouch cutter.

i'm pretty sure everyone can duck cutter. correct me if i'm wrong tho.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

no offense to any of these players but reo and curbo are not lao mains and cd jr didnt understand lao back then like he does now probably. d4's are very whiff punishable but 16 bit will tell you that d4 is one of the best tools to stop kitana from doing her stuff.

sadly I dont live in america, I m dutch. I know a lot about lao because ive maind him for almost 2 years now and do all I can to discover new stuff for countering his weaknesses and stuff. They used to hold tournaments here but the level is obviously not as good as the US. I promise you I will go to the next tourney they hold here if school doesnt get in the way. Ill show you what I can do with lao.

haha sounds good, and yeah the laos i mentioned dnt necessarily main him. PL actually mains him tho, and when he beats bit, its with kabal/ raiden.

 

[Death]

Big hitbox characters can duck cutter

 

[ForeverKing]

I play Kit, cage cyrax and Kung Lao and i could tell you all of these matchups are dead even.
I do pretty good against Kits with Lao, Do pretty good against cyraxes too, is just a matter of patience, Cage Lao cage can;t be so brain dead on his strings cause 6f spin and 7 frames standing Jabs. I have been Using Lao since the beginning of the game, just pulled him out once in tournament against my Bro cd Jr and he won with Kabal cause i dropped the standing 3 into ex hat, Kung Lao is heavily downplayed specially by PL and TB.
Honestly even Sonya is a 5-5 against him maybe on his favor a little, People think Kung Lao is all about telports, GTFOH.

Yeah like I said most of them are debatable 5-5 or 4-6. I do good against Kits too, I played the best one 16bit tons of matches. I do good against Cage too, I played the best one Dizzy tons of matches. I don't know who the best Cyrax is, but I play against most Cyrax players and play well. I do good against all these characters, and I have been using Kung Lao since this game came out as well I'm not just pulling random information out lmao. But in my opinion Kung Lao has to make alot of good reads to come out on top and win alot, meaning pulling off spins and dive kicks and certain combos at the right time. But if you mess any of these up you get full-combo punished and the match turns around, so it's hard to judge certain matchups.

Cage Kitana Sonya and Cyrax are debatable 5-5's or 4-6 in the other characaters' favor, but I would not consider any of these matchups debatable 6-4 in Kung Lao's favor. So obviously if it can debated one way and not the other, than that means the other character must have some slight advantage

 

[ForeverKing]

Also cage automatically beats lao, if we look at the history of that mu in tournament, top cages beat top laos so many times, i dnt even remember the number. Spin and standing 2 are good tools for him, but he's taking a risk with both bcuz standing 2 can be ducked and spin is a full punish on block. Not only am i undefeated vs lao with cage in tournament, but just undefeated in general vs lao with every character i have used vs him, I really know this char, which is why i say he has the bad mus he has. As far as tier listing goes, top 5 without a doubt, he doesn't even have a 7 3 haha, and does well vs kenshi/ kabal.

So would you agree with my list for the most part? I like when I finally find other people that are realistic and don't consider Kung Lao godlike lol. He is good don't get me wrong, but certain people upplay Lao too far

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

So would you agree with my list for the most part? I like when I finally find other people that are realistic and don't consider Kung Lao godlike lol. He is good don't get me wrong, but certain people upplay Lao too far

the man who sent me to losers at evo...... then i came back and beat dat ass and bernie'd on him lmao on some serious stuff though, your chart looks very good. I may disagree with a few number listings, but this is a chart that i wouldn't mind representing lao, no way he has no bad mus/ goes even with chars like rax lmao that's blasphemy.

 

[ForeverKing]

the man who sent me to losers at evo...... then i came back and beat dat ass and bernie'd on him lmao on some serious stuff though, your chart looks very good. I may disagree with a few number listings, but this is a chart that i wouldn't mind representing lao, no way he has no bad mus/ beats chars like rax lmao that's blasphemy.

Yeah I think people are confusing him with Kabal, that's the guy that has no even matchups and no bad matchups lol
But yeah you want to know what I noticed is, you talk about beating all Laos you fought, but you haven't fought mines yet