Match-up Discussion Kung Lao Match-Up Chart December 2012

[Illmatix]

that's an illusion kl vs jc is jc favor 6-4 not even

lol this guy said it was an illusion, well ill still use him against cage cuz i do pretty well ... maybe just against my bro but whateva

 

[YOMI DJT]

lol this guy said it was an illusion, well ill still use him against cage cuz i do pretty well ... maybe just against my bro but whateva

its ok bro you can do that because 6-4 only means a slight advantage. meaning as a player you can make the mu look even. don't be discouraged just because the number very manageable match for lao.

 

[Illmatix]

its ok bro you can do that because 6-4 only means a slight advantage. meaning as a player you can make the mu look even. don't be discouraged just because the number very manageable match for lao.

yeah i need to stop looking at it like 6-4 is a big deal, it's just because i always for some reason thought it meant "he wins 6 out of 10 games" but that is not true.

 

[Illmatix]

i'm real bias against ermac. I think lao wins it but 5-5 is very possible

not mention that if ermac has full meter he can punish tele for 50% unbreakerable, that is very outchy. but to get meter like that he needs to win the first round, and spend the 2nd building meter.

 

[YOMI DJT]

not mention that if ermac has full meter he can punish tele for 50% unbreakerable, that is very outchy. but to get meter like that he needs to win the first round, and spend the 2nd building meter.

very interesting but lao doesn't have to teleport alot to win this match or at all in some cases. just because you can punish something for a lot of damage doesn't mean you'll have the oppurtunity to punish it all the time. ermac tele or lift can punished but doesn't mean the lao player will have the oppurtunity to punish it all the time. I think 6-4 and 5-5 are really close and are hard to see because some 6-4 look 5-5. it only means slight advantage. this match makes me think like sub vs johnny is it really a 6-4? it looks so close. I'm starting to think about it and this match could be 5-5 hmmmm. Lots of matchups in mk make me think. We all have to be professional and not personal about these mus. hmm I like the idea of 5-5 even if it is 6-4 lao it doesn't matter because 6-4 are SUPER manageable

 

[Axel_Redd]

how does lao lose to sonya??

i don't agree with that.

i also feel that lao vs ermac is 6-4 lao because lao builds meter much easier than ermac can in this matchup. not only that, ermac doesnt have a reliable punish for 21212, he can lift, but the execution has to be spot on, and at that point lao could already have a breaker.

 

[YOMI DJT]

how does lao lose to sonya??

i don't agree with that.

i also feel that lao vs ermac is 6-4 lao because lao builds meter much easier than ermac can in this matchup. not only that, ermac doesnt have a reliable punish for 21212, he can lift, but the execution has to be spot on, and at that point lao could already have a breaker.

its another one of those mus that can really look 5-5. 6-4 and 5-5 are hard to distinguish at times because of how close they are.
Lets looks at what lao and sonya can do vs each other
lao can lame her out throw hats divekick away from her
he can pressure her at times
she can pressure him
her zoning is slightly better vs him but she cant really zone lao
this match is very similar to cage lao.
I think player 1 adv comes into play in this match also
they both have 7f standing moves sonya's one and lao's two
I think lao has to be more risky to win like jumping
sonya doesn't really have to jump to beat lao just like johnny
sonya outfootsies lao with d4 she gets super low.
lao can't get tele happy but any good know that can't do lots of teles vs sonya.
lao can spin her d4 but his spin can be baited
just like her armor can be baited
sonya can armor thru 24 1+2
this match is close to 5-5 but lao has to be very defensive to beat sonya
he can get some offense but sonya offense is better its 6-4
just can't get personal about these matchups
when both players know the mu sonya wins it
don't be confused by the illusion of the mu being a 5-5
sonya can d4 everytime he jumps just to be safe lao won't be able to any jump punches or teles
only thing he can jump with is jump kick
lao has to jump around divekick etc too much to win this match.
its close but the 5-5 lao sonya is all an illusion
the real mu is 6-4 Sonya
don't take it personally its very manageable for lao
but sonya wins
I thinks lao beats ermac 6-4 also and its very manageable
I think sometimes players think a mu is even because how manageable a match is and personally how good they do against a certain character
its just a number doesn't mean the player can't overcome the bad mu
5-5 and 6-4s are too close

 

[Illmatix]

very interesting but lao doesn't have to teleport alot to win this match or at all in some cases. just because you can punish something for a lot of damage doesn't mean you'll have the oppurtunity to punish it all the time. ermac tele or lift can punished but doesn't mean the lao player will have the oppurtunity to punish it all the time. I think 6-4 and 5-5 are really close and are hard to see because some 6-4 look 5-5. it only means slight advantage. this match makes me think like sub vs johnny is it really a 6-4? it looks so close. I'm starting to think about it and this match could be 5-5 hmmmm. Lots of matchups in mk make me think. We all have to be professional and not personal about these mus. hmm I like the idea of 5-5 even if it is 6-4 lao it doesn't matter because 6-4 are SUPER manageable

exactly having that tool makes kung lao never teleport, which is what ermac needs to win imo

 

[Axel_Redd]

its another one of those mus that can really look 5-5. 6-4 and 5-5 are hard to distinguish at times because of how close they are.
Lets looks at what lao and sonya can do vs each other
lao can lame her out throw hats divekick away from her
he can pressure her at times
she can pressure him
her zoning is slightly better vs him but she cant really zone lao
this match is very similar to cage lao.
I think player 1 adv comes into play in this match also
they both have 7f standing moves sonya's one and lao's two
I think lao has to be more risky to win like jumping
sonya doesn't really have to jump to beat lao just like johnny
sonya outfootsies lao with d4 she gets super low.
lao can't get tele happy but any good know that can't do lots of teles vs sonya.
lao can spin her d4 but his spin can be baited
just like her armor can be baited
sonya can armor thru 24 1+2
this match is close to 5-5 but lao has to be very defensive to beat sonya
he can get some offense but sonya offense is better its 6-4
just can't get personal about these matchups
when both players know the mu sonya wins it
don't be confused by the illusion of the mu being a 5-5
sonya can d4 everytime he jumps just to be safe lao won't be able to any jump punches or teles
only thing he can jump with is jump kick
lao has to jump around divekick etc too much to win this match.
its close but the 5-5 lao sonya is all an illusion
the real mu is 6-4 Sonya
don't take it personally its very manageable for lao
but sonya wins
I thinks lao beats ermac 6-4 also and its very manageable
I think sometimes players think a mu is even because how manageable a match is and personally how good they do against a certain character
its just a number doesn't mean the player can't overcome the bad mu
5-5 and 6-4s are too close

so in that case, since lao still has a very good chance of winning if he plays defensively and can still get the better of sonya
wouldn't it be 4.5-5.5

 

[GGA HAN]

As far as Cyrax goes, it might be an even 5-5. Yes, he punishes the hardest in the game. But don't take big risks like wakeup spins and you don't have to worry that much.

Kung is far too mobile to be worried about nets or bombs, and can toss low hats out pretty safely when past 3/4 screen away. The worst that happens is Cyrax uses AA to hop over it and you still are at a neutral game at that point.

Forever king, I forgot to ask your opinion on the MU this weekend, but from the KL side of it what is your game plan overall?

 

[TargetAudience]

its close but the 5-5 lao sonya is all an illusion

QFTT

 

[YOMI DJT]

not mention that if ermac has full meter he can punish tele for 50% unbreakerable, that is very outchy. but to get meter like that he needs to win the first round, and spend the 2nd building meter.

quick question what is ermacs 50% unbreakable combo?

 

[Illmatix]

quick question what is ermacs 50% unbreakable combo?

on tele it's uppercut, lift, xray. 50% unbreakerable. so easy to land it's nutz lol.

 

[YOMI DJT]

on tele it's uppercut, lift, xray. 50% unbreakerable. so easy to land it's nutz lol.

nice

 

[Jimmypotato]

on tele it's uppercut, lift, xray. 50% unbreakerable. so easy to land it's nutz lol.

Holy shit!! lol I didn't know that was 50%, thats pretty insane actually,

 

[Sultani]

now we're getting somewhere with this chart

Well like I said I don't entirely disagree with it being 5-5. Pig and Satsui are the only ones I've watched who seem to understand the gigantic number of options Mileena has after blocked 4 2 or blocked 2 3.

 

[ForeverKing]

I still don't know how KL vs Sub isn't worse than 6-4. Feels hard as fuck. Even vs random ass Lao's.

Guess I just suck. lol

Denzell could probably explain the matchup better than I can

 

[YOMI DJT]

Yes lets see Kl can throw hats
but he always has to be careful with his hats because you dont want to trade freezeball
If KL divekicks at sub he can d4 and beat it out
sub can d4 kls f3 on reaction beat it out everytime
Kl can abuse sub's hitbox for a while
but sub can d4 out can +8
Kl can't freely tele because sub can duck tele 3 full punish with 212 bnb
sub can't keep KL in the corner but he can predict how Kl wants to get out
Sub can do 222 ice clone and if Kl wants to tele out right away sub can njp him and get a combo
doing a jump in punch tele 3 doesn't jail sub and he can duck and punish with 212 bnb same with jk tele 3
sub can punish with 22 freeze too because 212 misses sometimes
sub doing air clone does help also but don't overuse air clone because it is highly punishable
sub can also avoid teles doing d4 makes it hard for Kl to freely jumpin
its a cat mouse game Kl zoning spacing sub keeping him away he can comein sometimes too but
kl playing against sub defensively is the best way for kl to win
sub needs to get in
sub outpokes kl with that d4
I mean the best I can give you of sub vs Kl is when I played PL at Anaheim
those tvs were laggy asf
anyways it isn't that bad if sub knows the mu
its 6-4 Kl slight adv to lao
use lots of d4 in this match to try bait kl to jump or tele
sub can punish lao's hat with his 9f 2 I think if not just d4 better than nothing
he can't punish lao's 21212 just do d4 it's better than nothing
Also when Kl gets sub in the corner he can divekick out so its hard to contain lao but it can be done to a certaina extent
its not 7-3
but if you're only playing the mu online you'll get the illusion that kl destroys sub like 8-2 or something
got to play online and offline

 

[YOMI DJT]

Well like I said I don't entirely disagree with it being 5-5. Pig and Satsui are the only ones I've watched who seem to understand the gigantic number of options Mileena has after blocked 4 2 or blocked 2 3.

that's fine she can have all the options she wants after those strings. she still loses 6-4

 

[Death]

Yes lets see Kl can throw hats
but he always has to be careful with his hats because you dont want to trade freezeball
If KL divekicks at sub he can d4 and beat it out
sub can d4 kls f3 on reaction beat it out everytime
Kl can abuse sub's hitbox for a while
but sub can d4 out can +8
Kl can't freely tele because sub can duck tele 3 full punish with 212 bnb
sub can't keep KL in the corner but he can predict how Kl wants to get out
Sub can do 222 ice clone and if Kl wants to tele out right away sub can njp him and get a combo
doing a jump in punch tele 3 doesn't jail sub and he can duck and punish with 212 bnb same with jk tele 3
sub can punish with 22 freeze too because 212 misses sometimes
sub doing air clone does help also but don't overuse air clone because it is highly punishable
sub can also avoid teles doing d4 makes it hard for Kl to freely jumpin
its a cat mouse game Kl zoning spacing sub keeping him away he can comein sometimes too but
kl playing against sub defensively is the best way for kl to win
sub needs to get in
sub outpokes kl with that d4
I mean the best I can give you of sub vs Kl is when I played PL at Anaheim
those tvs were laggy asf
anyways it isn't that bad if sub knows the mu
its 6-4 Kl slight adv to lao
use lots of d4 in this match to try bait kl to jump or tele
sub can punish lao's hat with his 9f 2 I think if not just d4 better than nothing
he can't punish lao's 21212 just do d4 it's better than nothing
Also when Kl gets sub in the corner he can divekick out so its hard to contain lao but it can be done to a certaina extent
its not 7-3
but if you're only playing the mu online you'll get the illusion that kl destroys sub like 8-2 or something
got to play online and offline

7-3 KL. it's tough for sub

 

[YOMI DJT]

7-3 KL. it's tough for sub

na its 4-6 sorry bro. what's your explanation on 7-3? enlighten me. just 7-3 its tough for sub LMAO

 

[Big Pampering]

Yes lets see Kl can throw hats
but he always has to be careful with his hats because you dont want to trade freezeball
If KL divekicks at sub he can d4 and beat it out
sub can d4 kls f3 on reaction beat it out everytime
Kl can abuse sub's hitbox for a while
but sub can d4 out can +8
Kl can't freely tele because sub can duck tele 3 full punish with 212 bnb
sub can't keep KL in the corner but he can predict how Kl wants to get out
Sub can do 222 ice clone and if Kl wants to tele out right away sub can njp him and get a combo
doing a jump in punch tele 3 doesn't jail sub and he can duck and punish with 212 bnb same with jk tele 3
sub can punish with 22 freeze too because 212 misses sometimes
sub doing air clone does help also but don't overuse air clone because it is highly punishable
sub can also avoid teles doing d4 makes it hard for Kl to freely jumpin
its a cat mouse game Kl zoning spacing sub keeping him away he can comein sometimes too but
kl playing against sub defensively is the best way for kl to win
sub needs to get in
sub outpokes kl with that d4
I mean the best I can give you of sub vs Kl is when I played PL at Anaheim
those tvs were laggy asf
anyways it isn't that bad if sub knows the mu
its 6-4 Kl slight adv to lao
use lots of d4 in this match to try bait kl to jump or tele
sub can punish lao's hat with his 9f 2 I think if not just d4 better than nothing
he can't punish lao's 21212 just do d4 it's better than nothing
Also when Kl gets sub in the corner he can divekick out so its hard to contain lao but it can be done to a certaina extent
its not 7-3
but if you're only playing the mu online you'll get the illusion that kl destroys sub like 8-2 or something
got to play online and offline

I dont know about some of these, like d4 kl roll on reaction? it doesnt really matter though because youre not gonna roll in on sub unless you want to run into a clone. I dont recommend throwing hats either because it isnt that hard for sub to trade with his freeze, its not prepatch low hat. and are you sure sub cant punish 21212 on block? I dont know it either but you know the properties on block are different if you crouch block right? I agree with 6-4.

 

[YOMI DJT]

I dont know about some of these, like d4 kl roll on reaction? it doesnt really matter though because youre not gonna roll in on sub unless you want to run into a clone. I dont recommend throwing hats either because it isnt that hard for sub to trade with his freeze, its not prepatch low hat. and are you sure sub cant punish 21212 on block? I dont know it either but you know the properties on block are different if you crouch block right? I agree with 6-4.

yeah true sub can do alot of the stuff i'm talking about doesn't really matter because Kl wins it 6-4. 7-3 seems kind of crazy but I wouldn't care because sub does pretty good in a lot of his losing mus. I use to think the mu was 5-5 but that was just me personally doing good in the mu the real number is 6-4. or could it be 7-3? hmmm

 

[YOMI DJT]

It should be 6-4 sektor the correct number. I think its one of those mu where it seems like Kl goes even with sektor but sektor wins it. just like cyrax beats lao. Both the robots beat lao.

 

[Big Pampering]

It should be 6-4 sektor the correct number. I think its one of those mu where it seems like Kl goes even with sektor but sektor wins it. just like cyrax beats lao. Both the robots beat lao.

could you break the basics down of the matchup? because I used to think it was sektor favor until I played it differently. sektor has problems against kung lao's hitbox as well.