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General/Other - Kung Lao Kung Lao General Discussion

Saltea Moonspell

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
biggabarr said:
Kung Lao is garbage at wake up , until his tele starts to track players , it's useless , if u tele and does noting , you are at -gazillion and that's no wake up at all , all the other cast wake up is reversal .. We need a better armor move and a faster mid to compete ...
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Bruah, you are last weeks news.
 
JayBee2

JayBee2

Noob
That instant divekick after straight hat is too much of a pain in the ass for me. Don't understand why the conversation has to be that hard
 
tatterbug4

tatterbug4

Bug of tater's
JayBee2 said:
That instant divekick after straight hat is too much of a pain in the ass for me. Don't understand why the conversation has to be that hard
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I get it online maybe 50%ish the time. It's not like they can punish you if you miss it anyways.
 
JayBee2

JayBee2

Noob
tatterbug4 said:
I get it online maybe 50%ish the time. It's not like they can punish you if you miss it anyways.
Click to expand...
While not being punished is a good thing, missing out on that damage is a big deal for me. Cause it could probably be a round winning combo and I drop it
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Here is some optimized hat trick combos that are very practical and i've been using them recently far more, the corner combos have changed all b321 in the corner still hits but needs timing unless the call back is converted from a low trap, s4 is way more damaging and practical anyway and works on both traps, so no harm done.

If you guys have anything more damaging that is very practical please share.

Midscreen meterless
11212~spin jk, dk, b321~trap
dk, b12~spin b321~trap
B12~spin, jk, dk, b321~trap
dk, b12~spin, rc, b12,2+4

B22~hat trap~call back run f2~spin, jk dk, 21
B22~hat trap~call back, run b32~spin jk dk, b12,2+4

No stamina combo conversions
B22~hat trap~call back, iadk, b12~spin, b321~hat trap
B22~hat trap~call back, iadk, b12~spin, b12,2+4
B12~hatarang, iadk, b12~spin, b321~hat trap
B321~hatarang, iadk, b12~spin, iadk, b12,2+4

Hatless ( mid hat Behind the opponent)
112124~call back, b321~spin jk, dk, 21
112124~call back, s4~spin, j2, dk, rc, b12,2+4
B12~call back, s4~spin, jk, dk, b12,2+4
Call back s4~spin, jk, dk, 21/b12,2+4

Hatless (low hat behind your opponent)
112124~call back, b321~spin, jk, dk, 21
112124~call back, s4~spin, jk, dk, rc, b12,2+4
call back, b12~spin, j2, iadk, b12,2+4
B12~call back, s4~spin, jk dk, b12,2+4

If you're feeling your execution
11212~spin, rc, s4~hat trap, B12~call back iadk, 21/B12,2+4

Anti Air on crossups or jump ins
s1, b321~spin, jk dk, 21
Spin, hat trap, b12~call back, iadk, b12,2+4
Spin, NjP~hat trap, B12~call back, iaDk, 21

Hatless anti airs on crossups only (mid hat only)
s1~extp3 B12~call back s4~spin, iadk, 21 or B12,2+4 for max damage
s1, run under B12~call back, s4~spin, iadk B12,2+4 or 21 for hard knockdown
NjP, run under, B12~call back s4´spin iadk, B12,2+4 or 21

Hatless anti airs (Opponent doesn't crossup staying in the hat line)
s1, s4~call back, s4~spin jk djk, 21 or B12,2+4 for max damage
NJP s4~call back s4~spin jk, dk, 21 or B12,2+4


Midscreen 1 bar
B12 or 112124~hatarang, 44, b321~spin, jk, dk, 21
B12 or 112124~hatarang, s4~spin, jk, dk, b321~hat trap or away trap or away low trap
B22~ex tp3, B12~spin, B321~hat trap


Hatless trip guard punishes (teleport punishes) 1 bar (opponent crosses up getting out of the hat punishing line line (mid hat only)
f23~ex tp2, b321~call back, s4~spin iadk, 21
f23~ex tp2, b321~call back, s4~spin, iadk, B12,2+4
11212~ex tp2, b321~call back, s4~spin iadk, B12,2+4/ 21
2 bars
112124 or B12 or 11212 or f23~ex tp 1~MB, B321~call back, s4~spin iadk, B12,2+4 for max damage or 21 for HKD

Hatless trip guard punishes (teleport punishes) 1 bar (Opponent crosses up getting out o the hat line (low trap only a dash distance away or one and half)
f23~ex tp2, b3~call back, B32~spin jk, dk, 21 or B12,2+4
11212~ex tp2, B3~call back, s4~spin, jk, dk, 21 or b12,2+4
2 bars
b12 or 11212, or 112124, or f23ex~tp1~MB B3~call back, s4~spin, jk, dk, 21 or b12,2+4

Corner only
B22~above trap, wait a little bit, B12~call back, s4~spin, jk,dk, B12,2+4 o4 21
B22, above trap, B1, B12~call back, s4~spin, jk dk B12,2+4 or 21
B321~spin, above trap, B12~call back, Jump back jk, dk, 21 or b12,2+4
B321~spin, hat trap, b12~call back, jump back kick, dk, 21 or b12, 2+4
B22~hat trap, d4~call back, b321~spin jk, dk, 21 or b12,2+4 (youph's classic)

Hatless (hat in the corner)
B12, F23 or 112124~call back, s4~spin, njp, jk dk, b12,2+4
B12 or 112124~call back, s1, b321~spin, jk, dk, 21 or b12,2+4
B12 or 112124~ low call back, B321~spin jk, dk, 21 or b12,2+4
1 bar
112124~hatarang, 44, s4~spin, jk dk, b12,2+4 or 21
B12~hatarang, 44, b12, b12~spin jk dk, b12,2+4 or 21

1 bar Teleport loop on taller characters, works only in the corner (kotal, raiden, jax, Quan, Jason, Preda, Alien, tremor, leather)
11212~ex tp3~44, b321~spin jk, dk, rc b12,2+4 40% damage for a bar

1 bar Teleport loop on extra large sized characters, works midscreen (Ferra/Torr and Goro)
11212~ex tp3, 44~b321 spin, jk, dk, rc b12,2+4

1 bar hatless teleport loop in the corner on taller characters (Away trap opponent in the corner)
11212~ex tp3, 44, b321~call back, s4~spin iadk, b12,2+4 49% for a bar

1 bar Hatless teleport loop midcreen on extra large characters (away trap active)
11212~ex tp3, 44, b321~call back, s4~spin iadk, b12,2+4 49% for a bar




@Youphemism @A F0xy Grampa @ROG Moonspell @myri @Dankster Morgan @The PantyChrist @Big Pampering @Carl @just_2swift @ETC Mcfly @Immortal @smokey @Braindead @YOMI FOREVER KING
 
Professor Oak

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
GrimJack said:
any tips to do the iadk after buzzsaw straight hat? I am really struggling
:(
Click to expand...
hold up+toward after you input the straight hat, switch to down+4 as soon as you see Lao leave the ground. If you get a jk then you didn't press down fast enough, if you get empty jump you were a little premature, and if your dk whiffs, you didn't get iAdk, just a low dive kick.

Practice iadks by themselves for a bit. It's a bit easier than you think initially.
 
Saltea Moonspell

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
Eddy Wang said:
Here is some optimized hat trick combos that are very practical and i've been using them recently far more, the corner combos have changed all b321 in the corner still hits but needs timing unless the call back is converted from a low trap, s4 is way more damaging and practical anyway and works on both traps, so no harm done.

If you guys have anything more damaging that is very practical please share.

Midscreen meterless
11212~spin jk, dk, b321~trap
dk, b12~spin b321~trap
B12~spin, jk, dk, b321~trap
dk, b12~spin, rc, b12,2+4

B22~hat trap~call back run f2~spin, jk dk, 21
B22~hat trap~call back, run b32~spin jk dk, b12,2+4

No stamina combo conversions
B22~hat trap~call back, iadk, b12~spin, b321~hat trap
B22~hat trap~call back, iadk, b12~spin, b12,2+4
B12~hatarang, iadk, b12~spin, b321~hat trap
B321~hatarang, iadk, b12~spin, iadk, b12,2+4

Hatless ( mid hat Behind the opponent)
112124~call back, b321~spin jk, dk, 21
112124~call back, s4~spin, j2, dk, rc, b12,2+4
B12~call back, s4~spin, jk, dk, b12,2+4
Call back s4~spin, jk, dk, 21/b12,2+4

Hatless (low hat behind your opponent)
112124~call back, b321~spin, jk, dk, 21
112124~call back, s4~spin, jk, dk, rc, b12,2+4
call back, b12~spin, j2, iadk, b12,2+4
B12~call back, s4~spin, jk dk, b12,2+4

If you're feeling your execution
11212~spin, rc, s4~hat trap, B12~call back iadk, 21/B12,2+4

Anti Air on crossups or jump ins
s1, b321~spin, jk dk, 21
Spin, hat trap, b12~call back, iadk, b12,2+4
Spin, NjP~hat trap, B12~call back, iaDk, 21

Hatless anti airs on crossups only (mid hat only)
s1~extp3 B12~call back s4~spin, iadk, 21 or B12,2+4 for max damage
s1, run under B12~call back, s4~spin, iadk B12,2+4 or 21 for hard knockdown
NjP, run under, B12~call back s4´spin iadk, B12,2+4 or 21

Hatless anti airs (Opponent doesn't crossup staying in the hat line)
s1, s4~call back, s4~spin jk djk, 21 or B12,2+4 for max damage
NJP s4~call back s4~spin jk, dk, 21 or B12,2+4


Midscreen 1 bar
B12 or 112124~hatarang, 44, b321~spin, jk, dk, 21
B12 or 112124~hatarang, s4~spin, jk, dk, b321~hat trap or away trap or away low trap
B22~ex tp3, B12~spin, B321~hat trap


Hatless trip guard punishes (teleport punishes) 1 bar (opponent crosses up getting out of the hat punishing line line (mid hat only)
f23~ex tp2, b321~call back, s4~spin iadk, 21
f23~ex tp2, b321~call back, s4~spin, iadk, B12,2+4
11212~ex tp2, b321~call back, s4~spin iadk, B12,2+4/ 21
2 bars
112124 or B12 or 11212 or f23~ex tp 1~MB, B321~call back, s4~spin iadk, B12,2+4 for max damage or 21 for HKD

Hatless trip guard punishes (teleport punishes) 1 bar (Opponent crosses up getting out o the hat line (low trap only a dash distance away or one and half)
f23~ex tp2, b3~call back, B32~spin jk, dk, 21 or B12,2+4
11212~ex tp2, B3~call back, s4~spin, jk, dk, 21 or b12,2+4
2 bars
b12 or 11212, or 112124, or f23ex~tp1~MB B3~call back, s4~spin, jk, dk, 21 or b12,2+4

Corner only
B22~above trap, wait a little bit, B12~call back, s4~spin, jk,dk, B12,2+4 o4 21
B22, above trap, B1, B12~call back, s4~spin, jk dk B12,2+4 or 21
B321~spin, above trap, B12~call back, Jump back jk, dk, 21 or b12,2+4
B321~spin, hat trap, b12~call back, jump back kick, dk, 21 or b12, 2+4
B22~hat trap, d4~call back, b321~spin jk, dk, 21 or b12,2+4 (youph's classic)

Hatless (hat in the corner)
B12, F23 or 112124~call back, s4~spin, njp, jk dk, b12,2+4
B12 or 112124~call back, s1, b321~spin, jk, dk, 21 or b12,2+4
B12 or 112124~ low call back, B321~spin jk, dk, 21 or b12,2+4
1 bar
112124~hatarang, 44, s4~spin, jk dk, b12,2+4 or 21
B12~hatarang, 44, b12, b12~spin jk dk, b12,2+4 or 21

1 bar Teleport loop on taller characters, works only in the corner (kotal, raiden, jax, Quan, Jason, Preda, Alien, tremor, leather)
11212~ex tp3~44, b321~spin jk, dk, rc b12,2+4 40% damage for a bar

1 bar Teleport loop on extra large sized characters, works midscreen (Ferra/Torr and Goro)
11212~ex tp3, 44~b321 spin, jk, dk, rc b12,2+4

1 bar hatless teleport loop in the corner on taller characters (Away trap opponent in the corner)
11212~ex tp3, 44, b321~call back, s4~spin iadk, b12,2+4 49% for a bar

1 bar Hatless teleport loop midcreen on extra large characters (away trap active)
11212~ex tp3, 44, b321~call back, s4~spin iadk, b12,2+4 49% for a bar




@Youphemism @A F0xy Grampa @ROG Moonspell @myri @Dankster Morgan @The PantyChrist @Big Pampering @Carl @just_2swift @ETC Mcfly @Immortal @smokey @Braindead @YOMI FOREVER KING
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Great work. I think You should move those to the HT section so we dont need to look else where. Other then that I think those wont change much.

though since all the meta changes and WA issue that we have I, my self will try to maintain meterless damage to hold onto meter for breakers.

What I decidied to look closer at is the corner bnb with maximized damage. From what I've been doing and what I am seeing here is that we are stuck between 30-33% meterless, or anyone has gone up to 34-35% perhaps ? I might have an idea for 34% but no success yet.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
ROG Moonspell said:
Great work. I think You should move those to the HT section so we dont need to look else where. Other then that I think those wont change much.

though since all the meta changes and WA issue that we have I, my self will try to maintain meterless damage to hold onto meter for breakers.

What I decidied to look closer at is the corner bnb with maximized damage. From what I've been doing and what I am seeing here is that we are stuck between 30-33% meterless, or anyone has gone up to 34-35% perhaps ? I might have an idea for 34% but no success yet.
Click to expand...
If you look at the Hat Trick discussion you'll see I optimized a few of the combos Eddy posted, including the optimal B2 starter corner combo with 21 ender. Before the optimal damage was the Youph classic (Eddy named it not me ;)) which did 32%, now I found a higher damaging combo which does 34%.
 
Saltea Moonspell

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
Youphemism said:
If you look at the Hat Trick discussion you'll see I optimized a few of the combos Eddy posted, including the optimal B2 starter corner combo with 21 ender. Before the optimal damage was the Youph classic (Eddy named it not me ;)) which did 32%, now I found a higher damaging combo which does 34%.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I've missed it. To me whatever I come up with from b22 I end up around 30-32%. Even if I fit in additional jab, the scaling is strong. On a side I was looking into KL's X-ray and I have to say that imo among the rest of the cast his X-ray is bad. It may come handy in full screen activation on hard read but and the end its 25%. He had so good X-Ray in MK9, how could they focked it so bad I wonder.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
ROG Moonspell said:
Perhaps I've missed it. To me whatever I come up with from b22 I end up around 30-32%. Even if I fit in additional jab, the scaling is strong. On a side I was looking into KL's X-ray and I have to say that imo among the rest of the cast his X-ray is bad. It may come handy in full screen activation on hard read but and the end its 25%. He had so good X-Ray in MK9, how could they focked it so bad I wonder.
Click to expand...
B22~hat trap, D1, 4~callback, 4~spin, jk~dk, 21 is 34%
 
Karma

Karma

Soul Caliber, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, and SF.
A F0xy Grampa said:
Yeah ofcourse, but it would be interesting for them to actually give us a playable for of Great Kung Lao, perhaps it could fit in with their ideas of mixing things up but keeping it MK at the same time.

@STORMS sorry I put this thread in the wrong place can it be moved to the MKX Lao section please?
Click to expand...
Late to say but "The Great Kung Lao" was already dead before kung lao was born. Kung lao's bio says that everybody thought Kung lao was killed by the hands of shao kahn.
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Champion
When I say things like "he got a 7 frame button but why not a 6?", or "his wake up doesn't really work".

People say "he doesn't need those things".

But when those things exist in the game, with both on some characters, along with better mix ups, it's hard to select Lao when preparing for tournaments.

Lao is awesome but I can't wait for the top 5 propaganda to stop. Our community is way too optimistic, we're like the opposite of the Johnny Cage community. When the character was probably top 10 and everyone said he was Kabal, we held that shit. Now a lot of us are holding top 5 propaganda when he's not even close to top 5.

We wanted a more viable character in the meta. We got that, but when there are better things in the game, there are better things in the game. If Kung Lao gets nerfed in an upcoming hotfix or patch because of propaganda..... lol
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Champion
We essentially have what the Cage community has now, but their character is dead to rights.

I know you guys like being optimistic. We gotta fight back, though. Throw some downplay in there, keep Lao alive.
 
Captain l2ed

Captain l2ed

White wolf
I agree. Playing a set against one of my good friends last night and ex tele is unreliable. Tracking is straight shit. Lao is better imo but he still has glaring problems. I'll keep playing him either way though.
 
Professor Oak

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
@Tweedy Kung Lao downplay:

112124 is still inconsistent and is pretty much useless against Ermac.

He CAN NOT wake up.

Patch made EX spin close to irrelevant.

A lot of oh's became slower to avoid overwhelming unreactable 50/50s, and that's good, but Lao's oh has been ass since launch, and his only low string that leads to full combo has the most unnecessary gap.

F23 and/or F21 needs a 3+4 or 2+4 or some command ender that ends in his mk9 toss up punch. Not really competitive downplay, just style downplay.

He can't backdash worth shit. He moves about half the distance of the rest of the cast at half the speed.

His walk speed is actually the most unfitting thing about this character. He's strength should be mobility. His dive kick and teleport are unsafe ways to move, so he needs better walk speed to be a true mobile martial arts master.

NJK has an awkward hit box.

B3 feels super stubby.

All teleport attacks have awful hit boxes

Buzz saw ex hats are almost pointless

Etc
 
Saltea Moonspell

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
Professor Oak said:
@Tweedy Kung Lao downplay:

112124 is still inconsistent and is pretty much useless against Ermac.

He CAN NOT wake up.

Patch made EX spin close to irrelevant.

A lot of oh's became slower to avoid overwhelming unreactable 50/50s, and that's good, but Lao's oh has been ass since launch, and his only low string that leads to full combo has the most unnecessary gap.

F23 and/or F21 needs a 3+4 or 2+4 or some command ender that ends in his mk9 toss up punch. Not really competitive downplay, just style downplay.

He can't backdash worth shit. He moves about half the distance of the rest of the cast at half the speed.

His walk speed is actually the most unfitting thing about this character. He's strength should be mobility. His dive kick and teleport are unsafe ways to move, so he needs better walk speed to be a true mobile martial arts master.

NJK has an awkward hit box.

B3 feels super stubby.

All teleport attacks have awful hit boxes

Buzz saw ex hats are almost pointless

Etc
Click to expand...

I could not put this down better. KL is not even top 10 at his best variation.
 
Bender

Bender

Product Manager. xBone tag: I3end3r.
Pretty much agree with most of these points - 11212 xx spin against Ermac needs to be fixed - the match is already one sided.

Offensively, Lao is better, but defensively he is lacking;

Back dash is garbage. Wake up MB teleport is easily exploitable. Raw hat spin and blocking are really his only consistent options on wake up and hat spin is obviously risky. His walk back speed is pretty bad.

His NJP and J in 2 are weak hit boxes

His mids are horrible against low profile characters (cough Piercing).

Still loving the changes, but these are my biggest issues with the character.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
@colt thank you for the buffs, its not that we're not satisfied, but there has been some major issues with the character in general that i though it would be looked at but it wasn't.

  • Definitely 11212 needs a better hitbox we can't even use this string on ermac
  • Definitely 112124 last hit needs to stop whiffing on players going from standing to crouching on the last hit making it whiiff.
  • Definitely Lao needs to freaking walk, either forward or backwards, he can't space in footsies without jumping, one of the things that definitely annoys the most its the walkspeed this character has, don't go along with his buttons at all SPECIALLY backwards.
  • LAO CAN'T WAKEUP.
  • Definitely needs to backdash, one of the worthless backdashes in the game, slow and doesn't cover much distance, and takes forever to recover, its one of the riskier options to use in order to avoid anything by spacing out.
  • Definitely Hat traps needs to have 6 frame less on recovery to be plus on some pressure out of his best strings
  • NJP is too slow
  • Call back needs to be -4 on block or -5 i don't care, but currently it sucks, the point blank game with KL is pretty bad, some characters can reversal punish with a special midscreen, others can punish with a down 1 everytime they block a call back. The worst part about hat trick is up close game, this needs a major change.
  • Revert the s1 nerf back to his broken float status, it used to help adjusting crossup combos with a if they jumped over a hat trap, now they are more encouraged to jump over a hat trap because we can only convert with meter.
  • Spin out of some B321 combos are still whiffing, the spin hitbox is kinda short.
  • Low forward trap was supposed to have the same recovery as regular forward and above trap, but it doesn't the frame data has been lying to us.
  • make above trap recover a bunch of frames faster to give him a threat game since it doesn't lead to anything without meter midscreen so he can at least mantain some pressure, and punish ppl for trying to poke out of it, if he has meter, since ya don't to give us hat call links.
i've been playing the variation non stop, it has improved in some areas, all other issues just remain exactly the same, specially the mobility one and the upclose game.
 
The PantyChrist

The PantyChrist

Rest in Pantiez
TBH I think either a backwalk or backslash might be appreciated. The character was obviously made to move forward in the form of dice kick or advancing/ extending armor. Since he no longer has that I think some form of defensive buff would be nice.... buuuuuut I still think I'd rather nrs put their effort into igau2
 
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