General/Other - Kotal Kahn Kotal Kahn General Discussion

[DeathandGrim]

What variation are you having trouble with?

I use Sun God he uses wrestling. He mostly just spams the triple uppercut string or cancel into a fireball or dash punch. Each of those options are unsafe as fuck but I can't seem to get out of block stun.

And then when I catch a lead he just throws me and spams energy blasts and Kotal's ass against large projectiles.

It's so frustrating

 

[Khaoz77]

If I were you I would switch to War God ASAP for that matchup. Jax will fuck you up with his versatility. What you want to do is take away his options by knocking him down midscreen and baiting out his projectiles. War God is good because that Sword Sweep will mess him up, and will probably have him chasing you since you have a move that stops his momentum.

Sun God could work, but the problem is that its high risk/small reward.

 

[D. R.]

Is anyone else having trouble hitting combos in the corner consisting of EN Sunstones and Uppercuts, like for example in my 120% death combo? Forget about the damage buffs and the sun ray, just the actual combo: b14 xx EN df3, f1b2 xx EN df3, d2, d1...

I can not connect this combo at all anymore to save my life. Just once since trying to play today after the patch and it felt literally like a just frame. Before the patch this was a cake walk.

I can only deduce one of two (or both) things that changed: Either d2 gained additional recovery frames or EN Sunstone gained additional recovery frames.

I'm leaning toward the former. Connecting d1 after d2 in this combo was fairly tight but now damn near impossible. I know frame data changed on Sunstone but idk what the hell to accept as fact with NRS in-game frame data. If others could test hitting this combo with consistency I'd appreciate it because I know something changed and I'm not losing my mind. If additional recovery frames were added to either of these moves or BOTH then

WTF NRS!!!!!!

 

[DeathandGrim]

If I were you I would switch to War God ASAP for that matchup. Jax will fuck you up with his versatility. What you want to do is take away his options by knocking him down midscreen and baiting out his projectiles. War God is good because that Sword Sweep will mess him up, and will probably have him chasing you since you have a move that stops his momentum.

Sun God could work, but the problem is that its high risk/small reward.

Funnily enough it was slightly more effective in War God but still bad because I'm bad with War God. The sword moves can stop him dead in his tracks if he doesn't armor, which is basically all he does on wakeup if he has meter.

For now I'll work on Kotal but I think I'm gonna pick up Jacqui to match his fireball spam because literally that's all he picks against my Kotal just in case he's losing.

 

[RYX]

I feel like Sun God's throw should be doing more damage for having to ramp up but at the same time it already keeps up with War God in terms of damage (maybe it should do more since it doesn't offer the same versatility?)

It's worth noting that his tick throws in Sun God will stuff everything that isn't armored.

B1
B14
D.3, D1 and D4
Standing 1
NJP

It's a shame that only War God can actually combo off of B14, it's so close to being a great string

 

[RYX]

Quick thought: do you guys think it'd be worthwhile to go for the EX throw's standing reset into Sun God Choke? You could manage a decent meterless combo and link it into throw and go for a reset

Also, you can cancel his run directly into his command grab in Sun God. It gives him a pretty ridiculous range buff if you're fast enough

 

[Khaoz77]

Quick thought: do you guys think it'd be worthwhile to go for the EX throw's standing reset into Sun God Choke? You could manage a decent meterless combo and link it into throw and go for a reset

Also, you can cancel his run directly into his command grab in Sun God. It gives him a pretty ridiculous range buff if you're fast enough

That's not a bad idea, with the guaranteed combo into sun god choke, you would basically get the meter back, and it would be great midscreen for a corner carry if you do spend the meter.

 

[stealthychainsawninja]

That's not a bad idea, with the guaranteed combo into sun god choke, you would basically get the meter back, and it would be great midscreen for a corner carry if you do spend the meter.

It's not guaranteed, the opponent has throw invuln after EX throw, and meatying the choke still lets them jump/backdash/armor out.

 

[Khaoz77]

It's not guaranteed, the opponent has throw invuln after EX throw, and meatying the choke still lets them jump/backdash/armor out.

Did not know that, forgive my ignorance

 

[TotteryManx]

People are finally catching onto Kotal's War God mixups. My advice; If you don't have meter to EX a db1, don't do it at all. Instead, cancel the string with a db3 and cancel that by holding up. It leaves you at +1 on block with a free d1 follow up. Once they respect that you can start your b1 pressure.

 

[Tomo009]

People are finally catching onto Kotal's War God mixups. My advice; If you don't have meter to EX a db1, don't do it at all. Instead, cancel the string with a db3 and cancel that by holding up. It leaves you at +1 on block with a free d1 follow up. Once they respect that you can start your b1 pressure.

Was this just changed in a patch?

I tested it extensively before the patch and found out it was definitely exactly -5. It can be punished by Lao EX spin but not Kano ball.

 

[TotteryManx]

Was this just changed in a patch?

I tested it extensively before the patch and found out it was definitely exactly -5. It can be punished by Lao EX spin but not Kano ball.

What? Let me test this and I'll get back to you.

 

[Tony at Home]

Am I losing my mind, or is 114 xx AA grab whiffing on more than just FerraTorr? I swear, it works in practice mode,but it is randomly mysteriously whiffing online.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Am I losing my mind, or is 114 xx AA grab whiffing on more than just FerraTorr? I swear, it works in practice mode,but it is randomly mysteriously whiffing online.

I only know of it whiffing against Ferr/Torr and I'm fairly sure that I tried it on every other character in the game in practice mode after it first became known that it whiffed on Ferr/Torr. But, as always, online is online.

edit: It's possible that I missed a few characters, but not more than 2 or 3.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Am I losing my mind, or is 114 xx AA grab whiffing on more than just FerraTorr? I swear, it works in practice mode,but it is randomly mysteriously whiffing online.

Just Ferra/Torr. Tested everybody else and its just them.

 

[Lanqu]

Guys, what do you think about setting up opponent with kotal's crazy projectile?
I think about ending combos with b122 + df3 . Upclose df3 has +6, does anybody have checked frame advantage from b122 ender distance? Could I use run + garanteed F1, for example? Since there is no invinsible wakeups that could lead to free grab or some blockstring. But Im not certain with advantage. May be there is the point to use b12 + df3, because it drops opponent a bit closer to you?

 

[Second Saint]

Guys, what do you think about setting up opponent with kotal's crazy projectile?
I think about ending combos with b122 + df3 . Upclose df3 has +6, does anybody have checked frame advantage from b122 ender distance? Could I use run + garanteed F1, for example? Since there is no invinsible wakeups that could lead to free grab or some blockstring. But Im not certain with advantage. May be there is the point to use b12 + df3, because it drops opponent a bit closer to you?

I've experimented with this a bit in Wargod (credit goes to pnut for getting me to think about it though). It can be very good against certain opponents because it hits meaty, forcing them to block, get hit, or use an armored wakeup. As long as that wakeup can't reach you, it's pretty safe either adding 11% to your combo if it hits, or 4.3% if it gets blocked. On block it's +18 (or at least really plus), so you get a free unpunishable dash in. They're also right at jump in distance. The macuahuitl also comes back in time to continue pressure after the dash or jump in. The opponent can back dash all this, but you can punish the back dash on read if you run or keep pressure on with dash ji1.

 

[regulas]

So while I'm still convinced they are worse I'm wondering what overall tactics people are using for blood/sun. Is it mostly down to punishes and parry's? Have you had any success with his safe strings?

 

[RYX]

So while I'm still convinced they are worse I'm wondering what overall tactics people are using for blood/sun. Is it mostly down to punishes and parry's? Have you had any success with his safe strings?

I try to abuse tick throws as much as I can

haven't played blood god online yet

Outside of footsies, I need to learn frame gaps so I can abuse parry, I don't use it enough. Does it parry everything?

 

[regulas]

Outside of footsies, I need to learn frame gaps so I can abuse parry, I don't use it enough. Does it parry everything?

Doesn't effect projectiles or Jump attacks, but affects everything else (Overheads/lows etc)

 

[RYX]

Doesn't effect projectiles or Jump attacks, but affects everything else (Overheads/lows etc)

it should stop jump attacks, lol.

 

[sPaB RoG]

I hope you guys are abusing F12, the pushback makes it virtually impossible to punish because its -9. And you get even more pushback when you do it in the corner.

 

[D. R.]

I hope you guys are abusing F12, the pushback makes it virtually impossible to punish because its -9. And you get even more pushback when you do it in the corner.

There are a lot of characters with advancing specials that are 8 frames or less that can punish the string so I'd advise against "abusing" it.

 

[TheRealOnlyGoonie]

Anyone down for some KK mirrors add gt - TheOnlyGoonie xb1

 

[Dragoomba]

Yo b1-4 xx Sun Choke in Sun God variation is amazing. It has very little blockstun so when you cancel into the command grab, it will grab them. Every time I do it people are like "You can grab during my blockstun!?"

They can hold up or mash a reversal of course, but it's a very good tick setup.