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Kollector General Discussion

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
I don't think you have either if thats what you are saying. Its effectively impossible for it to get it to punish a wakeup roll after shotel. You are either too close and the forward roll goes behind you(full punish) or they get to forward roll, block the 2nd hit, and get full punish if you tried to create space. Its effectively impossible to reliably create a setup where you can have the active frames on the 2nd hit of 44 to punish a wakeup roll, without still being too close and having the forward roll go behind you, any amount of backing up means you lose your window.

Its a bad option that will get you killed.

post edit

I did more testing and it turns out its very character specific. Some characters easily go behind kollector, some actually do get punished. Well the original point still stands for the characters that do get punished in that its still not scary at all, as he just stands there, goes negative at not too far away, for 1% chip damage. If you wanted to do that, spare change still does it better, and it is in no way shape or form good or scary pressure even on the characters it can punish the forward roll on. You need to play some Geras or Jax or Erron to see what real oki is.
That's why you end in command grab so you can punish forward rolls. You can use b1 to punish rolls after shotel (back up slightly and the timing punishes forward roll, u2, u3).

Kollectors oki is not just 44 though. Dash up command grab is real, dash up f1. As I said, I don't think the restand is that strong when you only have f1 and throw to threaten with (if command grab was a high this would be moot, but it isn't so yay a real command grab!). Or rather it's good, but not better IMO
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
I don't think you have either if thats what you are saying. Its effectively impossible for it to get it to punish a wakeup roll after shotel. You are either too close and the forward roll goes behind you(full punish) or they get to forward roll, block the 2nd hit, and get full punish if you tried to create space. Its effectively impossible to reliably create a setup where you can have the active frames on the 2nd hit of 44 to punish a wakeup roll, without still being too close and having the forward roll go behind you, any amount of backing up means you lose your window.

Its a bad option that will get you killed.

post edit

I did more testing and it turns out its very character specific. Some characters easily go behind kollector, some actually do get punished. Well the original point still stands for the characters that do get punished in that its still not scary at all, as he just stands there, goes negative at not too far away, for 1% chip damage. If you wanted to do that, spare change still does it better, and it is in no way shape or form good or scary pressure even on the characters it can punish the forward roll on. You need to play some Geras or Jax or Erron to see what real oki is.
I just realized I misspoke. The commangrab is the one that sets you up to punish absolutely every front roll in the game. That just even furthers my point that back in the packs oki is much stronger making the variation better. But yes you can do it almosf as well with shotel fury
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
That's why you end in command grab so you can punish forward rolls. You can use b1 to punish rolls after shotel (back up slightly and the timing punishes forward roll, u2, u3).

Kollectors oki is not just 44 though. Dash up command grab is real, dash up f1. As I said, I don't think the restand is that strong when you only have f1 and throw to threaten with (if command grab was a high this would be moot, but it isn't so yay a real command grab!). Or rather it's good, but not better IMO
When you do command grab into 44 oki it conditions your opponent to not: forward roll, u3, u2, and even just blocking or delaying wake up keeps them in your mind games. This holds your opponent in place and opens up command grabs and other stagger shenanigans. It’s honestly just objectively better variation.

4 into bag bomb is the biggest bill/ gimmick I think I’ve seen in the game
 

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Royal Contributor
It’s honestly just objectively better variation.
it isn't~~~~

Stand 44 into no pressure still isn't good oki. It's even worse on command grab than shotel cause you are so friggin far away. There is no incentive to do anything other than block for the enemy and laugh off your 1% chip. You might as well be saying liu kang tossing a low fireball from far away on your wakeup is amazing oki if thats the case. You can't threaten anything other than the hit at that range so who cares? Once again this is by definition not good oki, 4 into bag bomb at least nets you more chip in that case

You know whats good?

29% damage restand into 50/50 throw/strike mix with no option of the enemy being able to defend themselves other than guess. You know like the thing that helps make cassie one of the best characters in the game? Except Kollectors does more damage now.

Spare change is honestly just objectively the better variation.
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
it isn't~~~~

Stand 44 into no pressure still isn't good oki. It's even worse on command grab than shotel cause you are so friggin far away. There is no incentive to do anything other than block for the enemy and laugh off your 1% chip. You might as well be saying liu kang tossing a low fireball from far away on your wakeup is amazing oki if thats the case. You can't threaten anything other than the hit at that range so who cares? Once again this is by definition not good oki, 4 into bag bomb at least nets you more chip in that case

You know whats good?

29% damage restand into 50/50 throw/strike mix with no option of the enemy being able to defend themselves other than guess. You know like the thing that helps make cassie one of the best characters in the game? Except Kollectors does more damage now.

Spare change is honestly just objectively the better variation.
But 44 isn't the only oki option. It's an option to keep them from waking up. If you've discouraged them from that / they have no bar you dash up f1/command grab/b3/regular throw/s2 (to catch jumps). You ain't gonna be pressing 44 after every knockdown that's just not how you do oki
 

JJParker

Noob
The way I see it the 443 buff was also a buff to the Back in the Pack variation. People now drop out of combos as soon as you hit 443 meaning they now have no wake-up options which means it's command crab city.
 

Swoops

Noob
Spare change definitely has its moments. I think the bigger take aways with that variation are vials and giving him less risky options with bag bombs. You take up more screen space effectively.

I think if you’re praising the variations restand potential then you’re barking up the wrong tree. I mean you can pretty much do every SC “reset” in BITP variation you just leave out the bomb ender lol. F4, B1, F3 they all leave you standing and plus but just leave out some damage from the bomb (not to mention you’re usually closer without the bomb.)

The difference between Kollector and other reset, throw/strike mix up characters is that other characters have the frames and low risk hit confirmable strings into damage. Kollector’s fastest full damage hit confirmable string is 13f, and his fastest button is 8f. He’s a freaking awkward character at close range. The ONLY reason kollector might be a threat right in the opponents face is a 10f mid command grab that will put them right into his dangerous oki. Otherwise there’s literally no reason not to walk into him pressing 7f buttons and 9/10f mids over and over again.

I’ll close by saying again that spare change is completely fine (and I’m trying to play it more) but I don’t think it’s value is in standing resets. Like it’s been said it’s got its match up specific moments
 
I like spare change more. Mostly because i wanna be a special butterfly and rare.
It outzones alot of characters, and with a life lead it trades favorably with the whole cast At full screen. However i think IF you want to main kollektor you should be playing both variations.

Going to start practicing bitp.

At low demi god level people still cant handle vials very well. You CaN almost see their brain melting sometimes, this is a big take away for me personally
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
What do yall use for quick forward advancing punish?
I been using f3 just to get in close when I'm too far for a 44
F22 has more reach than it looks like. But I'm confused as both F3 and 44 is too slow to punish anything.

But to get in F3 isn't bad as you can use it as a stagger. Once they respect the F3 followups it opens up for just F3 into grab or whatever. It's not great but it's useable, the usual Kollector frame data lol.
 
F22 has more reach than it looks like. But I'm confused as both F3 and 44 is too slow to punish anything.

But to get in F3 isn't bad as you can use it as a stagger. Once they respect the F3 followups it opens up for just F3 into grab or whatever. It's not great but it's useable, the usual Kollector frame data lol.
I been using F3 as kind of a run move to get in quickly when opponent is very minus, like Jax BF2 or Sub Zero's stupid plus run kick normal. Like you said, it's slow, but by Kollector's standards I couldn't nail a better tool to move mid screen in and punish. Bolo is too damn slow, teleport is slow, lol.
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
I been using F3 as kind of a run move to get in quickly when opponent is very minus, like Jax BF2 or Sub Zero's stupid plus run kick normal. Like you said, it's slow, but by Kollector's standards I couldn't nail a better tool to move mid screen in and punish. Bolo is too damn slow, teleport is slow, lol.
Yeah Kollector usually has to walk in slowly but f3 is good. The problem is that the followups either send them really far back or you aren't plus on hit so yeah. Kollector frame data.
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
The way I see it the 443 buff was also a buff to the Back in the Pack variation. People now drop out of combos as soon as you hit 443 meaning they now have no wake-up options which means it's command crab city.
I just realized it says command crab city and now I'm laughing really loud to myself
 

SaJa

FH_FenriR
It's not worth it IMO but you can use it after string > bola > JIP 443 2 1+4. Iirc you can't JIP after 443 or the 2 will drop.
(2, 1+3), f1/command grab "reset" works twice in a ranked match. I'm gonna keep using it. I used to do same combo as you, I wanted to know if there would have been more damage.