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Kollector General Discussion

Gonna add that tip to the playbook. The s3 into vial only works once the opponent has been conditioned to not press buttons on wakeup. Dosent present itself all the tome
But when it does man that 50% for 1 bar is super sweet. Got any other setups that you like to employ or just some general neutral tactics?
I try to play midscreen alot At max 443 range and stager the string, its hitconfirmable into finishing the string. Alot of b3 to try to maintain this spacing.

If they start neutral ducking the first hit (not many do) Ill fish for some max range f4.

IF i got My opponent cornered and land 443 j2 f22 bola, i like to End it with ji2 44 which gets a wonky Quick get up in range for f4. But this is a gimmick At best
 
Solid plan! What’s your game plan for when they get inside the 443 range and you are out on the defensive? Also you wouldn’t happen to have any spare change tech would ya? (Scratches in crackhead)
 
Solid plan! What’s your game plan for when they get inside the 443 range and you are out on the defensive? Also you wouldn’t happen to have any spare change tech would ya? (Scratches in crackhead)
Im afraid the plan is hold My breath, b2 , d3 or d4. He really crumbles in close with No reversal cmd grab.
Finishing b2string creates space to start all over, so does both throws.

Havent found any good tech outside whats already been Said in this thread sadly
 

Swoops

Noob
Im afraid the plan is hold My breath, b2 , d3 or d4. He really crumbles in close with No reversal cmd grab.
Finishing b2string creates space to start all over, so does both throws.

Havent found any good tech outside whats already been Said in this thread sadly
IMO B3 is a really underused but solid tool as it puts you back in the range you want to be at while threatening with a 13f hitbox. If you dial in a bola cancel, the stun from B3 is so long that you can easily hitconfirm the bola for a combo. The only downside is that it can be somewhat inconsistent as some moves can advance on you while slipping under the hitbox.
 

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Royal Contributor
B3 is an awesome tool in spare change. Just b3, cancel into grenade. If it hits/is blocked(will happen very rarely, but its possible), its whatever because you are basically either at worst returned to neutral/are plus, and if it whiffed well then you gained a lot of backwards space that is effectively near unpunishable in 99% of situations. Really good for when people are walking you down and you don't necessarily trust your own buttons.
 
This is great, now all we need is a variation with his chakram toss and we will be all set.
What would you get rid of?

Vial and air vial is 2 slot, gotta drop bag bomb. Dont think a turnament preset ever Will have vial, air vial, chakram. Sadly.

Maybe if custom variations become a thing in comp :)
 

SixPathsOfHate

I identify as... I dont care. :D
What would you get rid of?

Vial and air vial is 2 slot, gotta drop bag bomb. Dont think a turnament preset ever Will have vial, air vial, chakram. Sadly.

Maybe if custom variations become a thing in comp :)
If you have chakram you dont need bag bomb and it can be replaced with that lure move/command grab/teleport. I am still hoping custom variations become a thing.
 
This is great, now all we need is a variation with his chakram toss and we will be all set.
Omg this is JUICY!!!!! I have been ending my corner combos with ji2, 2 1+2 3 for the knockdown and the pushback out of wakeup range so I can resume using 443 to stagger and harass. I will start working on this it’s a dope ass setup!
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
I could never put my finger on it but I’ve finally realized why the projectile variation is worse. It’s biggest problem imo is that it only has two distances for the bag bomb. It neeeeeeeds a close one
 

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Royal Contributor
I could never put my finger on it but I’ve finally realized why the projectile variation is worse. It’s biggest problem imo is that it only has two distances for the bag bomb. It neeeeeeeds a close one
If you need one thats closer, you are already in 44 range.

Projectile variation still the best variation, the people are waking up!!!!!!!!
 
I could never put my finger on it but I’ve finally realized why the projectile variation is worse. It’s biggest problem imo is that it only has two distances for the bag bomb. It neeeeeeeds a close one
Man, they are both comparable to each other. The bombs can offer a lot of resets, and setups that can be +32 on hit and +9 on block and offers a lot more full screen presence if you know your distances and frame data. This variation is not a zoning variation and is not a bomb bag vial combination variation (those setups aren’t real) focus on using the bombs to hit those reset opportunities and you can bet like 50% on one reset for 1 bar! The back in the pack is more straightforward tho and has a powerful mid command grab reversal so it’s also powerful and it’s easier to get wins with.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
Man, they are both comparable to each other. The bombs can offer a lot of resets, and setups that can be +32 on hit and +9 on block and offers a lot more full screen presence if you know your distances and frame data. This variation is not a zoning variation and is not a bomb bag vial combination variation (those setups aren’t real) focus on using the bombs to hit those reset opportunities and you can bet like 50% on one reset for 1 bar! The back in the pack is more straightforward tho and has a powerful mid command grab reversal so it’s also powerful and it’s easier to get wins with.
The bomb resets are extremely overrated. Why am I going to drop up to almost 10% on a combo for a restandnwhen kollector already has top 3 oki in the game?
 
The bomb resets are extremely overrated. Why am I going to drop up to almost 10% on a combo for a restandnwhen kollector already has top 3 oki in the game?
Cause the character isn’t ALL about oki in both variations. The bomb restand can lead to over 50% for as little as 1 bar. Also for 2 you can bet a solid strike/throw 50/50 that can lead to massive damage. It’s a different way to play for sure and I’m not saying you have to switch but they are both comprable.
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
Reset is kinda meh without the threat of the command grab, that's the problem. Also his oki off of command grab ender is pretty god like. Let them wake up and eat a full combo heyoooo
 

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Royal Contributor
The bomb resets are extremely overrated. Why am I going to drop up to almost 10% on a combo for a restandnwhen kollector already has top 3 oki in the game?
Why settle for Oki where I am giving the opponent a bunch of options on wakeup when I can just get my restand and get guaranteed pressure and or mixups that they can't do anything about? That and bomb resets off 443 still do over 30%.

Also Kolllector's oki isn't anything special unless you wanna share something with the rest of the class. It certainly isn't on the level of a Geras or something.
 
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SnowboardRX

^ You have no idea who this guy is ^
I think the variation you pick depends on the match up. For 80% of matchups I prefer having a teleport and command grab at my disposal so I spend most of my time in that variation.
This 100%. As a person who has devoted all of his MK11 time to ONLY Kollector, I can concur that the variation selection depends on matchups. I also, prefer what BitP gives on the majority of matchups but will use Spare Change for specific matchups (ex. Cassies' low shot variation) or when I feel like shaking things up. Personally, I use Up-Mace quite a bit so I miss that when i use SC.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
Why settle for Oki where I am giving the opponent a bunch of options on wakeup when I can just get my restand and get guaranteed pressure and or mixups that they can't do anything about? That and bomb resets off 443 still do over 30%.

Also Kolllector's oki isn't anything special unless you wanna share something with the rest of the class. It certainly isn't on the level of a Geras or something.
Lol wuuuuuuut!? Kollector oki is nothing special?? Bruh it’s literally one of the best if not the best in the game..

Off of shatel ender, 44 covers literally every single wake up for all but 3 characters in the game....
 

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Royal Contributor
Lol wuuuuuuut!? Kollector oki is nothing special?? Bruh it’s literally one of the best if not the best in the game..

Off of shatel ender, 44 covers literally every single wake up for all but 3 characters in the game....
Yeah but in and of itself it doesn't lead to anything. Its just an attack with no pressure. No throw attempt (unless you wanna do it at unsafe distance), lets opponent roll for free, if they just wakeup and block its nothing, zero sum. Versus characters that have legit throw/strike you have to guess pressure its blehhhhh.

And besides if you wanna do exactly that, its better.... IN SPARE CHANGE AHAHAHAHAHAHA cause you can just back off and do stand 4 into grenade and be less negative on block, get more chip, and protect yourself against rolls since grenade won't come out on whiff.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
Yeah but in and of itself it doesn't lead to anything. Its just an attack with no pressure. No throw attempt (unless you wanna do it at unsafe distance), lets opponent roll for free, if they just wakeup and block its nothing, zero sum. Versus characters that have legit throw/strike you have to guess pressure its blehhhhh.

And besides if you wanna do exactly that, its better.... IN SPARE CHANGE AHAHAHAHAHAHA cause you can just back off and do stand 4 into grenade and be less negative on block, get more chip, and protect yourself against rolls since grenade won't come out on whiff.
Why are you laughing? You literally said it was better primarily because of the restand. The “zoning” is non existent. Bola trades for 30% combos plus utility of teleport shits on anything his projectiles can do. I was just stating why restand resets are a complete non factor.

Either way these are all just opinions and we probably won’t change each other’s mind. It’s funny though how people state spare change is better yet not a single person has shown it on video let alone on a tournament stage. Every single relevant tournament player (splash, destroyer, etc) uses back in the pack. Although I understand that is not a definite indicator of which variation is better, is a without a doubt a very strong one.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
Yeah but in and of itself it doesn't lead to anything. Its just an attack with no pressure. No throw attempt (unless you wanna do it at unsafe distance), lets opponent roll for free, if they just wakeup and block its nothing, zero sum. Versus characters that have legit throw/strike you have to guess pressure its blehhhhh.

And besides if you wanna do exactly that, its better.... IN SPARE CHANGE AHAHAHAHAHAHA cause you can just back off and do stand 4 into grenade and be less negative on block, get more chip, and protect yourself against rolls since grenade won't come out on whiff.
Lol you obviously haven’t experimented with 44 on knock down enough. 44 actually punishes front rolls so there’s that
 

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Royal Contributor
Lol you obviously haven’t experimented with 44 on knock down enough. 44 actually punishes front rolls so there’s that
I don't think you have either if thats what you are saying. Its effectively impossible for it to get it to punish a wakeup roll after shotel. You are either too close and the forward roll goes behind you(full punish) or they get to forward roll, block the 2nd hit, and get full punish if you tried to create space. Its effectively impossible to reliably create a setup where you can have the active frames on the 2nd hit of 44 to punish a wakeup roll, without still being too close and having the forward roll go behind you, any amount of backing up means you lose your window.

Its a bad option that will get you killed.

post edit

I did more testing and it turns out its very character specific. Some characters easily go behind kollector, some actually do get punished. Well the original point still stands for the characters that do get punished in that its still not scary at all, as he just stands there, goes negative at not too far away, for 1% chip damage. If you wanted to do that, spare change still does it better, and it is in no way shape or form good or scary pressure even on the characters it can punish the forward roll on. You need to play some Geras or Jax or Erron to see what real oki is.
 
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