Kollector General Discussion

[AK Harold]

@Evil Canadian hey you got some match footage of can we play on psn?

Genuinely curious about spare change because I haven't seen it real time.

 

[Evil Canadian]

@Evil Canadian hey you got some match footage of can we play on psn?

Genuinely curious about spare change because I haven't seen it real time.

I got nothing recent. Last set of Kollector games I played woulda been a bit ago, I play about half the cast right now(and most of the bad characters )

But its easy enough to apply for yourself a lot of the zoning/counterzoning thought processes I mention throughout the last few posts. Plus add in the usual kollector stuff like his good buttons (f22, f3, stand 4, f4(max range only don't be dumb with it)) and you are pretty good to go. Like Kollector is still pretty bad don't get me wrong, but I tout up spare change cause imo its the superior way to play him, and against a lot of characters it lets him play the way he wants, versus just reacting to everything the opponent does.

 

[Wigy]

Grenade goes over the shield at most ranges dummy(not that it matters cause shield is pretty shit anyways). I actually know that match, I have quite a bit of experience in it.

If she wants to do BF3 then I laugh and start doing Bola trades for way bigger damage.

Its obvious you just wanna be mad at the character and don't wanna put in the time. Thats on you, not on me.

Spare Change is the way to go for Kollector and that's that.

Db2 and bf3 mb both trade well with bola- what are you on. You cant get up and convert unless heavily situationally.

Also grenade doesn't go over shield unless you've got some idiot frost rofl.

Just because you say something is true and make sweeping decorations doesn't make it true.

You literally didn't even address half my points, so I'm just guna assume this is the usually TYM chat of just making statements and saying oh it's true you just gotta git gud.

You're entitled to your opinion and maybe you're right, tbh I hope so, but nothing you said is convincing and on paper totally wrong.

 

[Evil Canadian]

Db2 and bf3 mb both trade well with bola- what are you on. You cant get up and convert unless heavily situationally.

Also grenade doesn't go over shield unless you've got some idiot frost rofl.

goddamn you are dense son

I already explained bola trades

anything hits kollector after he tosses bola, the 2nd hit doesnt come out. The enemy is then stuck in the effectively EX animation playing out while kollector recovers form the hit. He gets a guaranteed free vial DoT from this, and another projectile of his choice depending on what they want to do and your read of the situation.

Stop crying at me with this trash of yours, you got nothing but theory crafting under your belt on a character you obviously don't understand.

 

[AK Harold]

@Evil Canadian so you got PSN instead to play? Ignore the other guy, he's just gonna keep firing back untested theory till he wins one.

 

[Ck AeroVoid]

Gotta be honest, I forgot he existed I am gonna have to start using Kollector!

 

[Evil Canadian]

@Evil Canadian so you got PSN instead to play?

I will be grinding a lot next week for CEO and ill be on PSN yeah. Right now just trying to take it easy cause once I start grind mode I got nothing else going on.

Also if there is no balance patch with Shang Tsung I might be reallllllllly fucking dumb and play Kollector at CEO instead of Kabal or Geras which I know I should instead.

 

[SnowboardRX]

While I agree that Spare Change isn't as bad as it seems, I've put the time exclusively into playing ONLY Kollector since release and IMO, Back in the Pack is the way to go. Using the upward mace with the straight one is actually something most Kollectors aren't doing a lot for space control and IMO is the way to go with him. Add in the great command grab we all know about and the teleport to help get out of sticky situations and BinP is the variation I personally feel is strongest. Just my 2 cents.

Also, for anyone wanting to see some Kollector gameplay, here's some gameplay from the other night. I believe it's all Back in the Pack:

 

[Wigy]

goddamn you are dense son

I already explained bola trades

anything hits kollector after he tosses bola, the 2nd hit doesnt come out. The enemy is then stuck in the effectively EX animation playing out while kollector recovers form the hit. He gets a guaranteed free vial DoT from this, and another projectile of his choice depending on what they want to do and your read of the situation.

Stop crying at me with this trash of yours, you got nothing but theory crafting under your belt on a character you obviously don't understand.

I'm well aware of how the bola works, but that DOT vial after trading with with db2 especially is guna leave you negative. So you're getting the tiny bola damage plus maybe 20-40 before the opponent can just simple jump back. Whereas you take 70 or more. Not to mention trading with bola is hella inconsistent and just a blind read. If frost walks back throws out occasional shields mixes her db2 and bf3 in well please let me know what you do cause aside from grounded grenade nothing will hit. And you're just relying on bola trade and pray

If I read the bola and use shield, you eat a mb bf3 which is 150 damage-ish then I get to check you with db2.

Your ideas are about 20x more theorycrafting than mine.

LOL JUST TRADE BOLA.

 

[buyacushun]

Grenade is a full screen, aimable projectile thats plus on block at many ranges and lets him control parts of the screen the other variation can't. Unlike basically every other jump fireball in the game, Kollector can reach from full screen. Kabal/Cetrion/Subzero etc have to be midscreenish for theirs to hit Kollector can be literally jumping in the far corner and still hit a standing foe on the opposite end of the screen.

That and the arc makes it effectively unjumpable if you are using the grounded version, and at most ranges you'd use it at the grounded version is usually -3 to +4 on block. The only unsafe range to toss them is when they are right in your face.

Its what lets him have a presence from full screen, and then kinda ties everything together.

Let alone vial DoT's are good harrassment and annoyance, and makes stuff like 443 much more valuable because you can go 443 into vial toss and then get some free extra dot damage getting much more use out of your best long range normal.

Is kollector the best, nope.

Is spare change the best for Kollector? yep.

This doesn't explain how you have spare change above backpack though. The only thing is 443 allowing you to get a dot off. What match ups you feel spare change is better? Where'd you'd rather give up the teleport and command grab that not only gives him mixups but enhances his up close/counter poking game.

Currently I find myself mostly using his buttons with either variations. It's either assisted by trying to find spots to get the DoT off which will maybe make my opponent move around allowing me to throw grenades or sometimes I throw in a command grab/teleport out of the corner. I never really feel like one has the edge over the other except for very specific match up stuff right now like teleporting against cetrion.

 

[Evil Canadian]

What match ups you feel spare change is better? Where'd you'd rather give up the teleport and command grab that not only gives him mixups but enhances his up close/counter poking game.

I think its basically better in every match. Kollectors screen control actually exists in spare change. No need to TP when you win the zoning war, and command grab is admittedly good, but its not worth giving up the utility of that said screen control.

Without Spare Change, Kollector is basically just a worse Kabal or Cassie. A footsies character with worse damage and utility than the other footsies characters. With Spare change, he's something much more unique. I feel most people who write off Kollector as one of the worst characters are because they base their experience off back in the pack, where he is just a worse version of other existing characters. Like Spare change doesn't make him top tier(or high tier, or even maybe mid tier) or nothing, but it gives him a stronger unique experience that people have to play around vs just him playing their game.

 

[buyacushun]

I think its basically better in every match. Kollectors screen control actually exists in spare change. No need to TP when you win the zoning war, and command grab is admittedly good, but its not worth giving up the utility of that said screen control.

Without Spare Change, Kollector is basically just a worse Kabal or Cassie. A footsies character with worse damage and utility than the other footsies characters. With Spare change, he's something much more unique. I feel most people who write off Kollector as one of the worst characters are because they base their experience off back in the pack, where he is just a worse version of other existing characters. Like Spare change doesn't make him top tier(or high tier, or even maybe mid tier) or nothing, but it gives him a stronger unique experience that people have to play around vs just him playing their game.

OK I don't see how you "win" a zoning war. You can outplay with your projectiles sure but it's not like a Cassie thing where you just do low guns and beat other projectiles. Who do you think Kollector just outright beats with his projectiles? Cause every way I look at it I have to constantly make a read or I'm biding my time looking for a spot. I never feel like I just "win". I wouldn't consider hoping my opponent attacks when I throw Bola or they happen to throw a projectile as I jump "winning" in this game.

And as for the general screen control I feel like his projectiles are too slow to just be able to control the screen. They're more like a tool to help keep up a lifelead because now as you try get in and contest my buttons you have to walk through the dot or end up blocking a grenade. Kollector never feels like I'm just zoning like if I played Cassie/kitana/jade etc. It's more like I have certain tools that makes my opponent break up the usual zoning like if they were fighting KO Jacqui.

I'd have to see how you're getting his projectile game off cause I haven't seen it be so good that I'd seriously take it over the backpack in most cases. And I've been playing spare change mostly. Since you're on psn we can play whenever you start grinding

 

[Evil Canadian]

OK I don't see how you "win" a zoning war. You can outplay with your projectiles sure but it's not like a Cassie thing where you just do low guns and beat other projectiles. Who do you think Kollector just outright beats with his projectiles?

You overthinking it. Kollector just jumping and tossing grenades is something that has to be dealt with. He's nice and safe in the air while tossing his projectile hovering over other stuff, grenade lands on other persons head. Think of it like reverse cassie if you want. Cassie low profiles, Kollector "high" profiles. Plus DoT harrass + bola stuff.

Only people he has to be scared of is people who can hit him while he's in the air, like New Era Geras sand pillars which go up high enough.

 

[Swoops]

Losing a 10f mid command grab that sets up solid oki and completely shuts down rolls is a hard pill to swallow imo.

Spare change is cool and I would like to use it more but the command grab does a looot of work

 

[Matador Fiend]

I dusted off my Kollector last night online and got 3 quitalities lol. Thats 3 more than i have ever gotten in this game.

Back in the pack is decent. The power of a mid, 10f command grab threat is really good. It creates a death threat against opponents who are cornered since they risk 45% and oki if they try to roll out. Kollector may not be the best but he is ok. If they gave more hit adv to f12, he would be really good imo.

I like his design and the skin i have looks badass so I am gonna use him and just run Jax as my other character.

 

[buyacushun]

You overthinking it. Kollector just jumping and tossing grenades is something that has to be dealt with. He's nice and safe in the air while tossing his projectile hovering over other stuff, grenade lands on other persons head. Think of it like reverse cassie if you want. Cassie low profiles, Kollector "high" profiles. Plus DoT harrass + bola stuff.

Only people he has to be scared of is people who can hit him while he's in the air, like New Era Geras sand pillars which go up high enough.

I think you're not thinking hard enough lol. What is there to deal with? Unless you're standing still and have 0 options i don't see how jump grenade or dot is a just do it thing. I'm gonna need to see this jumping Kollector in action

 

[Evil Canadian]

I think you're not thinking hard enough lol. What is there to deal with?

The moves?

Unless you got a teleport or an oddball move like New era Geras sand pillar, Kollector will never have to contend with your projectiles because they can't touch him, while you have to contend with his, its basically that simple. Can't put it any other way. People gotta get in versus him(and by walking, since there's no jumping where grenades are concerned) which then he can actually make use of his decent buttons instead of chasing people down.

Its really that basic, it ain't rocket appliance

 

[buyacushun]

The moves?

Unless you got a teleport or an oddball move like New era Geras sand pillar, Kollector will never have to contend with your projectiles because they can't touch him, while you have to contend with his, its basically that simple. Can't put it any other way. People gotta get in versus him(and by walking, since there's no jumping where grenades are concerned) which then he can actually make use of his decent buttons instead of chasing people down.

Its really that basic, it ain't rocket appliance

The way you're describing how this goes only works if you're opponent sits there full screen and does absolutely nothing. A simple dash forward solves both distances you can pick. If you're actually going to control space it should require more than a dash to get past what your doing. You have yet to describe anything useful actually making the move as powerful as you say it is. Is there even one character who can't do anything and can't trade either air projectile in their favor?

 

[Wigy]

Lol since when does jumping in the air dodge projectiles consistently at all.

Nevermind the fact a huge proportion of the cast have multiple projectiles which do more than 70.

Also if you trade on anything in the air you get knocked down so they'll probably get a projectile check or be able to move in where you guess with grenade placement

 

[Evil Canadian]

The way you're describing how this goes only works if you're opponent sits there full screen and does absolutely nothing. A simple dash forward solves both distances you can pick. If you're actually going to control space it should require more than a dash to get past what your doing. You have yet to describe anything useful actually making the move as powerful as you say it is. Is there even one character who can't do anything and can't trade either air projectile in their favor?

Hey how about try it instead of theory crafting it. If you think you can easily dash under the grenades by all means see how well that actually works for you with a mix of air and grounded ones. Its only possible at a very specific range.

I guess this is the biggest thing I gotta say about that

TRY THE VARIATION BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN

 

[buyacushun]

Hey how about try it instead of theory crafting it. If you think you can easily dash under the grenades by all means see how well that actually works for you with a mix of air and grounded ones. Its only possible at a very specific range.

I guess this is the biggest thing I gotta say about that

TRY THE VARIATION BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN

Ummmm do you think you're the only one who's played the character? You've yet to actually explain any reason why anything you're saying works. What you've done is barely theory. All I've gotten from you is to just chuck grenades and DoT. Shit you can barely actually discuss anything asked of you so far. Take this response, I didn't only say to dash. Asked you about match ups. Even focused on a very specific aspect. And I'm met with "just go do it you'll see." If you're trolling then I guess you got me since I've been responding. If you aren't please actually explain how this character plays against any character using more than "jump and throw stuff"

Please play me when you start grinding. I'd love to get bopped by spare change

 

[Evil Canadian]

You are the one that seems to fundamentally misunderstand "His fireball game is good and better than most other people have" if you can't understand such a simple concept, there's no helping you. There's no graphs or anything I need to draw up here, its a really basic gameplan that works well for him.

He can shotted fireballs
other people cannot shotted fireballs to him him very well because of the variety of places on the screen he can be at while he shotted his fireball
eventually they have to stop shotted fireball and walk to him because generally Kollector wins the full screen game

do I need to dumb it down anymore.

 

[buyacushun]

"His fireball game is good and better than most other people have"

You have to prove this statement.

He can shotted fireballs
other people cannot shotted fireballs to him him very well because of the variety of places on the screen he can be at while he shotted his fireball

What variety of places? You say be full screen. So you're either grounded which grenade doesn't reach. I think the dot will though. Or you jump which is big signal to the opponent to easily prepare their next move.

eventually they have to stop shotted fireball and walk to him because generally Kollector wins the full screen game

Why would anyone have to approach? I'll ask again. Is there a character that has no option to counter this (scorp teleport, jade glow), or can't trade in their favor (Johnny, Sonya. Cassie)? Mind some good timing/spacing can lead with just you taking damage. Since you have to atleast aim it correctly and if you jump add you being in the air as well. Which character has a problem with Kollector being full screen?

You haven't provided any details to support your opinion. Just saying "it's simple bro" ain't good enough.

 

[Wigy]

@buyacushun

Man I think he's just trolling, he just ignores everything you say and vaguely says 'full screen grenades lol learn the character' over and over.

I gave him pretty glaring issues in the frost zoning fight, none of which he addressed.

 

[imblackjames]

yea i exclusively played spare change when i was playing the kollector but i gotta say its bad haha you get zoned out really hard because everything takes a week to start up