Kitana General Discussion

[Vhozite]

Is starter xx lift, j2 x2 b14 xx special still the main BnB?

 

[armani]

quick thinkpiece, cause I’ve been here since the beginning and I love y’all lol:

NRS would benefit greatly if MK12 (I have no hope for MK11 atp) had a blend of slight MK9 craziness, MKX legacy moves, with MK11 base moves. they literally try to reinvent the wheel with every MK installment and it ends up being a shitshow in its own respective reasons.

Injustice 2 was appreciated cause it felt like the previous installment, although it did feel almost too similar with certain characters (looking at you Green Lantern & Catwoman) but overall it just worked.

one of the things that I’ve appreciated about Tekken is that it’s kept an implied level of continuity between each installment. they’ve consciously & creatively added to a system that simply works for the title, yet they dont destroy the foundation of the game. even in Soul Calibur 6; with how the damage scaling and lethal hits work it’s obvious what combo routes you need to use, but there’s still a plethora of things to do in game. I guess NRS is still trying to figure out what they want MK to be but this whole thing just feels mismanaged. one of the things that blew my mind was when I discovered that in MK9, you are less plus on crouching pokes depending on whether your opponent is standing or crouching. why didn’t they keep that?! idk.

NRS creates games that exist on a 2D fightline, but their games have execution on par with divekick. there should be more to do. it’s not like KOF where we have to execute 12-inputs to get a fireball to come out.

Kitana cannot stagger against certain folks, and can ONLY DO b14/b13 as safe midscreen pressure... IF she can get a crumb of a plus frame. it’s fucking dumb and I hate it. there are only 1-3 combo routes per character. it’s fucking dumb and I hate it.
the game looks nice and has beautiful effects but feels like it’s physically weighing you down, the gravity is dumb and I hate it. the mechanics reward you based on who knows what cause you can lose half your health for punishing some one. it’s fucking dumb and I hate it.

this game is similar to cyberpunk in some regards: no bugs or glitches (sorry D’Vorah lol) but the lack of things to do plus core principles of the game kill the experience i.e breakaway, fatal blow, a million wake up options, hitbox issues, etc.

idk. Kitana fights & moves like she doesn’t know how to handle the weight of her fans, mileena is literally a t-rex with those stubby ass normals - but jacqui hits like a truck & moves like butter, and then cetrion can zone + combo you full screen and then teleport while your still in recovery.

they’re so happy that is game went back to its roots. if that’s the case let Kitana combo off of regular air fan lmao give us something sheesh (yes, she could do this in MK3)

(& double yes I know, some of what I said was super exaggerated lol)

 

[cannoli_kahn]

quick thinkpiece, cause I’ve been here since the beginning and I love y’all lol:

NRS would benefit greatly if MK12 (I have no hope for MK11 atp) had a blend of slight MK9 craziness, MKX legacy moves, with MK11 base moves. they literally try to reinvent the wheel with every MK installment and it ends up being a shitshow in its own respective reasons.

Injustice 2 was appreciated cause it felt like the previous installment, although it did feel almost too similar with certain characters (looking at you Green Lantern & Catwoman) but overall it just worked.

one of the things that I’ve appreciated about Tekken is that it’s kept an implied level of continuity between each installment. they’ve consciously & creatively added to a system that simply works for the title, yet they dont destroy the foundation of the game. even in Soul Calibur 6; with how the damage scaling and lethal hits work it’s obvious what combo routes you need to use, but there’s still a plethora of things to do in game. I guess NRS is still trying to figure out what they want MK to be but this whole thing just feels mismanaged. one of the things that blew my mind was when I discovered that in MK9, you are less plus on crouching pokes depending on whether your opponent is standing or crouching. why didn’t they keep that?! idk.

NRS creates games that exist on a 2D fightline, but their games have execution on par with divekick. there should be more to do. it’s not like KOF where we have to executive 12-input directions to get a fireball to come out.

Kitana cannot stagger against certain folks, and can ONLY DO b14/b13 as safe midscreen pressure... IF she can get a crumb of a plus frame. it’s fucking dumb and I hate it. there are only 1-3 combo routes per character. it’s fucking dumb and I hate it.
the game looks nice and has beautiful effects but feels like it’s physically weighing you down, the gravity is dumb and I hate it. the mechanics reward you based on who knows what cause you can lose half your health for punishing some one. it’s fucking dumb and I hate it.

this game is similar to cyberpunk in some regards: no bugs or glitches (sorry D’Vorah lol) but the lack of things to do plus core principles of the game kill the experience i.e breakaway, fatal blow, a million wake up options, hitbox issues, etc.

idk. Kitana fights & moves like she doesn’t know how to handle the weight of her fans, mileena is literally a t-rex with those stubby ass normals - but jacqui hits like a truck & moves like butter, and then cetrion can zone + combo you full screen and then teleport while your still in recovery.

they’re so happy that is game went back to its roots. if that’s the case let Kitana combo off of regular air fan lmao give us something sheesh (yes, she could do this in MK3)

(& double yes I know, some of what I said was super exaggerated lol)

Not much of what you said is exaggerated. Nobody is playing Kitana because her gameplay is of substance. Just her fans (no pun intended) trying their best to be character loyal despite the despicable design. NRS needs better quality testers and gameplay designers.

 

[exflyingbooty]

Honestly, if we're discussing mk12 at this point I want absolutely nothing from mk11 kitana's base. This character is literally a complete bastardization of what kitana is.

 

[Dogeofthesea]

Not just Kitana, half of the bs in MK11 shouldn't return in MK11. Like, have you look at Sonya's move list? Why the fork should she has 1 million useless strings, while she only needs to use 3 strings in all her games.
Additionally, I discover at least 4 characters in this game having strings that are punishable on HIT Kitana, Jade, Shang Tsung and Noob because they're stupid dial up combos. The devs never tested anyone's move list thoroughly enough.
I don't even want to talk about the despicable thing they did with Cassie and Shang: disable their launchers in the corner

 

[Stanlos]

Well, I am in the minority in liking the spirit of what they did for Kitana's moves. If they simply made her plus after reflect so she doesn't get punished for successfully using it I will be happy. I like her elegance, grace, and swag. I just wish her fans comboed meterlessly like in the beta or MK2 but understand that is a philosophy thing for this iteration. Visually, she is stunning and I hope they build on this foundation but with adjusted gravity so users can make their own combos like in MK2 and MK3. WHATEVER THEY DO, just don't go the INJUSTICE 2 route.

 

[exflyingbooty]

Well, I am in the minority in liking the spirit of what they did for Kitana's moves.

so you liked how from mk9/mkx how she had some of the best normals, actual really strong staggers like mk9/mkx 21, the ability to actually terrify people to not jump which half of her moves punish you if your opponent jumps like an asshole but you consider these moves better?

 

[Juxtapose]

I don't play the game too much anymore, but from what I understand, she's still considered solid mid-tier, perhaps on the lower end of that spectrum, yes?

 

[Benlo]

What I find frustrating is how some of her special moves looks good or fun but are in fact not worked enough.

Let's take dancing fans. It could be fun if it was, actually, well done. A projectile that can become a launcher ? Why not. But hehe, NRS came with the idea of not making it a real launcher, or that does not keep your combo damage. Or that we cannot use tornado+ amp dancing fans int the same combo route ... :/

I really hope NRS will take the time to think and analyse, for MK12.

 

[M2Dave]

I don't play the game too much anymore, but from what I understand, she's still considered solid mid-tier, perhaps on the lower end of that spectrum, yes?

Correct.

From what I have seen, she is ranked mid tier, low mid tier specifically, in most current tier lists.

She has zoning, anti-zoning, and combos but limited offense, arguably one of the most limited ones in the game. She has no mix ups, no plus strings, no staggers and no krushing blows or okizeme on throws. She has slow mid attacks and a plethora of dial-in-strings, which are a liability in this game because of the way wake up and break away function.

I used to believe in pre-patch Highborn because of razors. I no longer do. I really have not used this character since Ultimate was released.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Correct.

From what I have seen, she is ranked mid tier, low mid tier specifically, in most current tier lists.

She has zoning, anti-zoning, and combos but limited offense, arguably one of the most limited ones in the game. She has no mix ups, no plus strings, no staggers and no krushing blows or okizeme on throws. She has slow mid attacks and a plethora of dial-in-strings, which are a liability in this game because of the way wake up and break away function.

I used to believe in pre-patch Highborn because of razors. I no longer do. I really have not used this character since Ultimate was released.

Her biggest problem is her movement. There is no character in the game with as bad as movement as Kitana.

 

[DethRaze]

Correct.

From what I have seen, she is ranked mid tier, low mid tier specifically, in most current tier lists.

She has zoning, anti-zoning, and combos but limited offense, arguably one of the most limited ones in the game. She has no mix ups, no plus strings, no staggers and no krushing blows or okizeme on throws. She has slow mid attacks and a plethora of dial-in-strings, which are a liability in this game because of the way wake up and break away function.

I used to believe in pre-patch Highborn because of razors. I no longer do. I really have not used this character since Ultimate was released.

Hey Dave. Have you tried Fannado? I run Fearless, but swapping E. Twist for Ground War. Low fan and Fannado are amazing keep away tools and you have the option of anti zoning and anti breakaway with booty. Also Fannado can function as anti wake up since it catches F. roll, up2, and up3. It's super solid and I'm having a ton of fun using it.

Edit: I also want to add how satisfying it is to have someone breakaway trying to get up and mash and they get smacked by b124 krush. It just feels sooooo good.

 

[Juxtapose]

Correct.

From what I have seen, she is ranked mid tier, low mid tier specifically, in most current tier lists.

She has zoning, anti-zoning, and combos but limited offense, arguably one of the most limited ones in the game. She has no mix ups, no plus strings, no staggers and no krushing blows or okizeme on throws. She has slow mid attacks and a plethora of dial-in-strings, which are a liability in this game because of the way wake up and break away function.

I used to believe in pre-patch Highborn because of razors. I no longer do. I really have not used this character since Ultimate was released.

Do you know where I can find current Tier Lists? I'm curious where Sub-Zero and Jade stack up now (other characters I used to play). From what I can gather, they're considered quite good and seem to have a lot of tournament showing. Also curious on Mileena.

 

[M2Dave]

Hey Dave. Have you tried Fannado?

I have tried a little bit of everything. I was impressed by nothing. I use Kotal Kahn now and I am satisfied.

Do you know where I can find current Tier Lists?

Here is an archive of some of the tier lists.

Generally, Sub Zero is considered top 10, Jade is high mid tier, and Mileena is low mid tier.

Tweedy attempted maining Mileena for about two months but then quit. He is maining Geras again.

 

[armani]

in light of more positive things,

1. I’m pretty happy with low fan & half blood stance as a variation. I think low fan is suuuper essential to Kitana’s toolkit, and seeking sai allows you to continue pressure on wakeup. the launch height & recovery of the gutted kb gets you a guaranteed booty kb if the opponent breaks away

2. low fan also turns kitana into an errhmageerd 50/50 character with f234 & b231d2 as overhead kbs.

3. I consider low fan being a stagger tool within itself, there truly isn’t any knowing whether or not your going to throw it out or not if you condition the opponent

4. quick hop 2 has insane range. I’ve been using it as a way to stop people from mashing d1/d3 after staggering b2.

5. baiting flawless blocks after 12d2 and b142 is relatively easy, and will put the opponent on watch if you knock out a combo afterwards lol

kitana kinda works as a character, but you really have to sweat and work hard to make something happen. idk lol this iteration has me biting my nails in terms what it could’ve been for this character.

is anyone using 21222 now? they made it safe in the aftermath patch. I’ve figured out some uses for it in corner combos and pressure in the neutral.

Her biggest problem is her movement. There is no character in the game with as bad as movement as Kitana.

I second this alll day all night. I guess they were trying not to overkill her footsies with b2 being so good in some situations

WHATEVER THEY DO, just don't go the INJUSTICE 2 route.

I agree with what you might be implying, the gear system was bogus as hell and was probably the dumbest thing they could’ve done, but I meant this in relation with how other fighters operate - with legacy moves being retained and great deal of original character essence being transferred

 

[Stanlos]

I agree with what you might be implying, the gear system was bogus as hell and was probably the dumbest thing they could’ve done, but I meant this in relation with how other fighters operate - with legacy moves being retained and great deal of original character essence being transferred

They always throw in stupid RNG. Years later, I still do not have the gear I want in Injustice 2. It is silly

 

[Stanlos]

But also the zoning is WAY unbalanced in that game with those giant stages

 

[DarksydeDash]

Kotal Kahn is looking like our worst MU, next to Sub and Shang.

I might make another MU chart

 

[Espio]

Kotal Kahn is looking like our worst MU, next to Sub and Shang.

I might make another MU chart

Kotal is gross for so many characters, I absolutely hate running sets against this character with so many on the roster, it's exhausting.

Kitana's lack of backward movement just makes it all the more annoying, but I'm looking forward to a match up chart.

 

[DethRaze]

Kotal Kahn is looking like our worst MU, next to Sub and Shang.

I might make another MU chart

I run through subs all day long thanks to Fearless + Ground War (-minus twist). Fannado trades with iceball and cucks his slides. They shut down once they realize they can't unga bunga me.

 

[DarksydeDash]

I run through subs all day long thanks to Fearless + Ground War (-minus twist). Fannado trades with iceball and cucks his slides. They shut down once they realize they can't unga bunga me.

Fannado definitely does help but I'm more so looking at the power of slide. This move alone changes the MU if he has it because:

• Punishes Low Fan from midscreen
• Punishes Sai Toss on reaction, and even prevents Sai Oki, much like Kotal Kahn
• Punishes Fan Toss on reaction
• Becomes a Fatal Blow when the KB is loaded
• Checks you on block, especially after b13, and 131.
• Worst of all: Prevents you from gaining distance from Sub Zero, especially due to Kitana's poor movement

 

[cannoli_kahn]

in light of more positive things,

1. I’m pretty happy with low fan & half blood stance as a variation. I think low fan is suuuper essential to Kitana’s toolkit, and seeking sai allows you to continue pressure on wakeup. the launch height & recovery of the gutted kb gets you a guaranteed booty kb if the opponent breaks away

2. low fan also turns kitana into an errhmageerd 50/50 character with f234 & b231d2 as overhead kbs.

3. I consider low fan being a stagger tool within itself, there truly isn’t any knowing whether or not your going to throw it out or not if you condition the opponent

4. quick hop 2 has insane range. I’ve been using it as a way to stop people from mashing d1/d3 after staggering b2.

5. baiting flawless blocks after 12d2 and b142 is relatively easy, and will put the opponent on watch if you knock out a combo afterwards lol

kitana kinda works as a character, but you really have to sweat and work hard to make something happen. idk lol this iteration has me biting my nails in terms what it could’ve been for this character.

is anyone using 21222 now? they made it safe in the aftermath patch. I’ve figured out some uses for it in corner combos and pressure in the neutral.

The overhead f234 & b231d2 isn't only flawless-blockable but also can be eeeeeeaaasily shimmied. Having low fan does not make either of those strings 50/50 at all against more scrubby players. Low-fan is good to counter pokes, which is especially useful even if it's only safe after amp. And I don't see how 21222 is good for pressure or corner combos, especially if you meant using the full string. The string ends at like -7 and it doesn't return distance the opponent. In the corner, other strings or even just 4 produce more damage out put. So what exactly do you do to make 21222 a pressure/corner combo tool?

 

[Pan1cMode]

Ehh fuck it. These are the changes I’d like for kitana:

General:
- better dash speeds. Not asking for Cetrion, Rain, Fujin, or Mileena dashes, but honestly her dash speed is infuriating. Just something so she actually moves when she dashes.

Move specific changes:
- low fan: flawless block gap removed (noob already has his without a gap with his low slide; why can’t kitana?)

- retreating/advancing flutter: inputs changed to regular db and df + attack button. Literally no reason you should have to do an aerial command grab to air dash when Kabal doesn’t have to.

- royal protection: allow this to be held and absorb multiple projectiles; obviously would have extensive end lag. Even make it so you can hold it if it’s enhanced if that’s what you so prefer. Alternatively, allow her to spend a defensive and offensive meter to activate a buff without absorbing a projectile.

- Up fan: bring back pre-patch recovery etc, with increase combo scaling.

- edenian razors: ex razors made +5 on block

- Edenian fade: made 1 customs slot


I’m ready to be blown up and told how broken this would make Kitana.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Ehh fuck it. These are the changes I’d like for kitana:

General:
- better dash speeds. Not asking for Cetrion, Rain, Fujin, or Mileena dashes, but honestly her dash speed is infuriating. Just something so she actually moves when she dashes.

Move specific changes:
- low fan: flawless block gap removed (noob already has his without a gap with his low slide; why can’t kitana?)

- retreating/advancing flutter: inputs changed to regular db and df + attack button. Literally no reason you should have to do an aerial command grab to air dash when Kabal doesn’t have to.

- royal protection: allow this to be held and absorb multiple projectiles; obviously would have extensive end lag. Even make it so you can hold it if it’s enhanced if that’s what you so prefer. Alternatively, allow her to spend a defensive and offensive meter to activate a buff without absorbing a projectile.

- Up fan: bring back pre-patch recovery etc, with increase combo scaling.

- edenian razors: ex razors made +5 on block

- Edenian fade: made 1 customs slot


I’m ready to be blown up and told how broken this would make Kitana.

This would make Kitana broken. You have been blown up

 

[Vhozite]

Those changes look pretty fair to me, though I’d also like to see her get oki off at least one of her throws. No KB and no oki makes them feel pretty trash.

Also what is Edenian Fade good for? I’m in the lab right now and it seems totally ass. I wouldn’t even use it if it was a free base kit move. What am I missing about it?