Match-up Discussion Killer Frost In-Depth Analysis for Match-Ups

[Pig Of The Hut]

Oh nvm

its that dropped combo dash under thing

 

[Qwark28]

Thanks man I appreciate it.

The MMH MU is weird. The only good one I've played is reo but that was back at SJ. It was deemed 5-5 back then but I have no idea what it is now.

rickyraws can vouce joker is even

 

[Qwark28]

vouch*

 

[@MylesWright_]

rickyraws can vouce joker is even

The Joker is a bottom 10 character who loses to almost everyone and has very few 5-5 matchups as said by you, and yet one of those 5-5 matchups is Killer Frost.

This community makes absolutely no sense, if Killer Frost was in fact top 10 material as everyone states, why is she going 5-5 with The Joker. Does BA, WW, BM and SM go 5-5 with the joker? aren't they top 10

I'm done

 

[Qwark28]

The Joker is a bottom 10 character who loses to almost everyone and has very few 5-5 matchups as said by you, and yet one of those 5-5 matchups is Killer Frost.

This community makes absolutely no sense, if Killer Frost was in fact top 10 material as everyone states, why is she going 5-5 with The Joker. Does BA, WW, BM and SM go 5-5 with the joker? aren't they top 10

I'm done

BA is probably 6 4 in his favour

ww is 6 4 her favour

SM is even

batman is 6 4 his favour

it just so happens that joker has a few setups vs KF and she operates up close which is where joker wants to be

 

[@MylesWright_]

BA is probably 6 4 in his favour

ww is 6 4 her favour

SM is even

batman is 6 4 his favour

it just so happens that joker has a few setups vs KF and she operates up close which is where joker wants to be

'I'm sorry, but crowbar and sweep are not ways to open people up. Not when they give you almost nothing midscreen.'

'You gave us NO ways to deal with our bad matchups. How are we supposed to get in? How are we supposed to defend ourselves up close or far away with sub-par normals and a useless in most matchups gunshot?'

http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/joker-still-sucks.38698/#post-1173815

It sounds plausible to say that you think Killer Frost is even worse then i do

 

[RiBBz22]

Oh nvm

its that dropped combo dash under thing

Yeah it is following up with an attack after an U3 since the knockdown is un-techable. You can do a lot of stuff off of it like the dash under into a 50-50, a delayed dash which will leave you on the same side, dash away to bait wake-ups and whiff punish, cross up j3, dash in nj3 which can ambiguously cross up if timed right, jump away and air dash j2...lots of options.

 

[Qwark28]

'I'm sorry, but crowbar and sweep are not ways to open people up. Not when they give you almost nothing midscreen.'

'You gave us NO ways to deal with our bad matchups. How are we supposed to get in? How are we supposed to defend ourselves up close or far away with sub-par normals and a useless in most matchups gunshot?'

http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/joker-still-sucks.38698/#post-1173815

It sounds plausible to say that you think Killer Frost is even worse then i do

KF is not a zoner, that is immensely helpful. and KFs slide is very helpful because its something we can read and punish without actually relying on ppl fucking up their zoning and slipping.

crowbar and sweep are not that good vs killer frost, i dont throw anything that gets hit by random slides.

her AA is also a bit sub-par to jokers J3 so it helps, our damage is also better and has good wallcarry

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Yeah it is following up with an attack after an U3 since the knockdown is un-techable. You can do a lot of stuff off of it like the dash under into a 50-50, a delayed dash which will leave you on the same side, dash away to bait wake-ups and whiff punish, cross up j3, dash in nj3 which can ambiguously cross up if timed right, jump away and air dash j2...lots of options.

Whats your honest thoughts on sinestro/frost?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

First of all, a single series does not determine a match.

You need to familiarize yourself with some of Zod's frame traps.

Doesn't he have a bagillion?

Good write up btw. i think the things you say in this MU apply to alot of characters in a general (teehee) sense.

 

[Doombawkz]

Not going to lie, normally I'm all for teasing the Kf forums for no good reason but this chart is...
Surprisingly Agreeable. Even by my standards, I look at it and think "yeah, that actually looks like it could be accurate".

Very nice.

 

[Rickyraws]

The Joker is a bottom 10 character who loses to almost everyone and has very few 5-5 matchups as said by you, and yet one of those 5-5 matchups is Killer Frost.

This community makes absolutely no sense, if Killer Frost was in fact top 10 material as everyone states, why is she going 5-5 with The Joker. Does BA, WW, BM and SM go 5-5 with the joker? aren't they top 10

I'm done

Killer Frost beats Doomsday.
Doomsday beats Manhunter.

Does this then mean, Killer Frost beats Manhunter?

Your argument is invalid

 

[Doombawkz]

Killer Frost beats Doomsday.
Doomsday beats Manhunter.

Does this then mean, Killer Frost beats Manhunter?

Pretty much this.
Bane beats Scorpion, Scorpion beats (?), but odds are Bane doesn't beat that character.

 

[RiBBz22]

Whats your honest thoughts on sinestro/frost?

I think it is terrible for Sinestro. I haven't ran a set with p2w after the mid-mid buff so we will see if that helps. I don't think it will help a ton though because Frost shouldn't be fighting him from that range anyways. Maybe his worst MU because she out-zones him, punishes just about every special he has outside of fear blast from long range. If Sinestro doesn't have a life lead or trait he basically has to try to get in against dagger spamming and that just sucks.

 

[ApocaLips]

I'm done

 

[RiBBz22]

Not going to lie, normally I'm all for teasing the Kf forums for no good reason but this chart is...
Surprisingly Agreeable. Even by my standards, I look at it and think "yeah, that actually looks like it could be accurate".

Very nice.

Yeah he just has a few off of mine so he isn't that far off of perfection quite yet xKhaoTik lulz

 

[@MylesWright_]

Killer Frost beats Doomsday.
Doomsday beats Manhunter.

Does this then mean, Killer Frost beats Manhunter?

Your argument is invalid

Is Doomsday bottom 5?

Your reply is invalid

 

[ApocaLips]

Just gonna compare my thoughts, if only so that I have a record to look back on. My comments in blue.

Aquaman: 6-4

Disagree, 5-5. We've talked about it a lot, I think AMs right now aren't playing the MU correctly. Won't beat a dead horse.

Ares: 6-4

Agree

Bane: 6-4

Agree

Batgirl: 6-4

Agree, thanks in huge part to her d1 becoming parryable. Now she plays the normal post-slide game.

Batman: 5-5

Agree

Black Adam: 5-5

Agree for now

Cat woman: 6-4

Agree

Cyborg: 6-4 (wouldn't argue 5-5)

I would. I think it's clearly 6-4. The zoning is going to take some life off, but you'll get in eventually and then he's fucked. His close game depends on strings with enormous advantage - but you can parry through almost all of it - importantly, you can punish his 112 with parry.

Deathstroke: 6-4

I think 7-3. The only saving grace for him is d1~sword spin to make KF gtfo.

Doomsday: 7-3

Agreed

The Flash: 5-5

I actually think this is 6-4 KF

Green Arrow: 5-5

Can't comment

Green Lantern: 5-5

Yeah, maybe. I need to get better at parrying b13, but it feels 5-5 even without that.

Harley Quinn: 5-5

Agreed. Harley's tools are particularly tough for KF to deal with.

Hawk girl: 5-5

Can't comment. Every HG I've ever played is a freebird.

The Joker: 6-4

It was definitely in her favor before. Don't know enough about new Joker to comment. My initial impression is that the joker players are exaggerating how much better he got, but we'll see.

Killer Frost (mirror):

This is 5-5

Lex Luthor: 6-4

Sure. It could be worse if KF plays this MU perfectly. He needs to play pretty YOLO vs. her to get some armor up. It's tough if he does, but he shouldn't be able to without putting his whole lifebar at risk.

Lobo: 6-4

New Lobo theoretically beats KF's mid-range ground game, which was traditionally her turf. I could see this being even now.

Martian Manhunter: 4-6 (probably 5-5)

I think 4-6, the overhead TP buffs were dumb

Night wing: 6-4

Agreed, could be worse

Raven: 6-4

I think this is 7-3. KF has a response to everything she does anywhere on the screen, even in trait.

Scorpion: 6-4

Yeah idk. Scorp sucks, could be worse than this. He has to tear through twice the amount of meter to do the same thing we do half as well.

Shazam!: 7-3

Yeah this MU didn't change much, or if anything it's better. Lol at his corner damage nerf.

Sinestro: 7-3

Yep.

Solomon Grundy: 6-4

Agree

Superman: 6-4

I always thought you were overoptimistic about the Superman MU pre-patch. I think it's 5-5 now.

Wonder Woman: 5-5

Agree. Maybe in KF's favor if your opponent thinks sweep is a block infinite against her.

Zatanna: 6-4

No clue.

Zod: 5-5

Agree for now, but we'll see. His zoning and overall high damage might be problematic.

 

[ApocaLips]

Killer Frost beats Doomsday.
Doomsday beats Manhunter.

Does this then mean, Killer Frost beats Manhunter?

Your argument is invalid

Is Doomsday bottom 5?

Your reply is invalid

Transitive Reasoning > Myles

It doesn't matter that he's not bottom five. It matters that he's not top 2.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Just gonna compare my thoughts, if only so that I have a record to look back on. My comments in blue.



Agree for now, but we'll see. His zoning and overall high damage might be problematic.

Over optimistic about supes?
Im just now thinking it is 6-4 lol. I always thought it was even.

 

[ApocaLips]

Over optimistic about supes?
Im just now thinking it is 6-4 lol. I always thought it was even.

I don't think it was even pre-patch. But I know my opinion is the minority on that point.

 

[Rickyraws]

Is Doomsday bottom 5?

Your reply is invalid

If every match we've ever played is any indication, Mr. Brian main man, I don't blame you for thinking she's bottom 5

Shots fired will continue after these messages.

 

[Rickyraws]

Over optimistic about supes?
Im just now thinking it is 6-4 lol. I always thought it was even.

I start every morning watching this.

 

[M2Dave]

Doesn't he have a bagillion?

Good write up btw. i think the things you say in this MU apply to alot of characters in a general (teehee) sense.

I fought REO's Killer Frost and he beat me.

xKhaoTik uses Killer Frost as though she were Kitana - defensive and calculated. But Killer Frost should be played nothing like that, at least in the Zod match up. You must get in and get the 50/50 mix ups started. You will not win if you do not.

 

[Rickyraws]

I fought REO's Killer Frost and he beat me.

xKhaoTik uses Killer Frost as though she were Kitana - defensive and calculated. But Killer Frost should be played nothing like that, at least in the Zod match up. You must get in and get the 50/50 mix ups started. You will not win if you do not.

Zod's force push is safe, correct? Is that his only safe option after his crouching 1 2 punch? Because from what I remember, ground laser and rifle shots always get beat out when I play a Zod. Even with delayed uppercuts.