Breakthrough Killer Frost gets 70% for Two bars Traitless

[Cossner]

J1 advantage is neutral on hit so we just have to make sure it can't be escaped. Can't they dash out?

That is not how J1 and J2 work. Those 2 can be cancelled into stuff. Man, 8 months into the game and you haven't figured that out ribbz? :tonyt

 

[Laos_boy]

Okay they can dash out but nit every one knows that. So i say abuse till people are blowing it up

 

[Axel_Redd]

Okay they cant dash out but nit every one knows that. So i say abuse till people are blowing it up

they can or can't?

 

[RiBBz22]

That is not how J1 and J2 work. Those 2 can be cancelled into stuff. Man, 8 months into the game and you haven't figured that out ribbz? :tonyt

U dummy, obviously I am talking about cancel advantage of a move that is 0 on hit. Calm down rookie. I determined it could be dashed out of already, but that does not make it bad.

 

[ApocaLips]

they can or can't?

They can, but it's the only way out.

 

[Laos_boy]

they can or can't?

Oops i meant can

 

[RiBBz22]

They can, but it's the only way out.

It is more than a 50-50, now people are going to have to train themselves to look for j1 or j2 in anticipation of the 50-50 or the command grab reset. Even if they train themselves to do it correctly, read the j1 and dash out you can always bait that in a sense and whiff punish it with slide. This is such good tech Laos_boy .

 

[DarkPage]

yoooo this is not okay

 

[Relaxedstate]

If this actually is guaranteed; it's about time Killer Frost became moderately viable. Having to make 3 to 4 correct reads in a row in a vortex was absolutely ridiculous especially seen as when its blocked she loses all momentum, characters as bad as killer frost deserve to kill you if they manage to touch you at all

lol

 

[Laos_boy]

They can, but it's the only way out.

What about the corner?

 

[ApocaLips]

It is more than a 50-50, now people are going to have to train themselves to look for j1 or j2 in anticipation of the 50-50 or the command grab reset. Even if they train themselves to do it correctly, read the j1 and dash out you can always bait that in a sense and whiff punish it with slide. This is such good tech Laos_boy .

Yeah, that's why this is so good. Now instead of just guessing high/low, they need tofollow this flowchart:

(1) Did KF hit me with j1 or j2?
(a) If j1, backdash or block low
(b) if j2, block high or block low

And they have to correctly identify the j1 or j2 and make a guess between one of the 50/50s within 22 frames. Not happening. Now KF basically has a 33/33/33 to kill if the opponent has <70% health.

Note two key limitations though:

(1) This setup does not lead back into the MB vortex
(2) You need 2 bars pretty much upfront - you can't rely on the second rep of the vortex to build bar. If you see that KF is going to only have 1 bar after the first rep, you don't need to worry about this setup.

What about the corner?

Tested with BA, he still avoids it. I'm sure most people do, it's the invincibility that matters.

 

[ApocaLips]

Execution Tips:

(1) Make sure you're doing the j1 low enough to the ground

(2) Make sure you 2-in-1 the MB Freeze - if you finish the input after she lands it'll whiff

 

[Chuckychuck]

Yeah, that's why this is so good. Now instead of just guessing high/low, they need tofollow this flowchart:

(1) Did KF hit me with j1 or j2?
(a) If j1, backdash or block low
(b) if j2, block high or block low

And they have to correctly identify the j1 or j2 and make a guess between one of the 50/50s within 22 frames. Not happening. Now KF basically has a 33/33/33 to kill if the opponent has <70% health.

Note two key limitations though:

(1) This setup does not lead back into the MB vortex
(2) You need 2 bars pretty much upfront - you can't rely on the second rep of the vortex to build bar. If you see that KF is going to only have 1 bar after the first rep, you don't need to worry about this setup.



Tested with BA, he still avoids it. I'm sure most people do, it's the invincibility that matters.

Cool tech but there is no reason to setup a 33/33/33 scenario when you have a 50/50.

 

[xKhaoTik]

I'm currently on a 67 win streak because of this. Good fucking shit.

 

[ApocaLips]

Cool tech but there is no reason to setup a 33/33/33 scenario when you have a 50/50.

Uhh, what? Forcing the opponent to choose between 3 options instead of 2 is better.

 

[Chuckychuck]

Uhh, what? Forcing the opponent to choose between 3 options instead of 2 is better.

So by your logic a 10/10/10/10/10/10/10/10/10/10 is better than a 33/33/33?

 

[ApocaLips]

I'm currently on a 67 win streak because of this. Good fucking shit.

If you have any more execution tips, please share. I'm not consistent with it yet.

Laos_boy - you're officially one of us lol

 

[ApocaLips]

So by your logic a 10/10/10/10/10/10/10/10/10/10 is better than a 33/33/33?

Yes. How is it arguable that a 10% chance to escape is worse than a 33% chance to escape is worse than a 50% chance to escape?

 

[Chuckychuck]

Yes

Ok. I'd like to hear your logic behind it.

I disagree because statistically over time the 50/50 will grant you the highest success rate.

 

[ApocaLips]

Ok. I'd like to hear your logic behind it.

I disagree because statistically over time the 50/50 will grant you the highest success rate.

This is so wrong it's in WTF territory. I don't even understand why you would ever say that.

In the 50/50 scenario, you have a 50% of your opponent escaping, which means 50% chance to hit and do your full damage.

In the 33/33/33 scenario, you have a 33% chance of your opponent escaping, which means a 67% chance to hit and do your full damage.

In the 10/x10 scenario, you have a 10% chance of your opponent escaping, which means a 90% chance to do your full damage.

When we're talking about the situations you would do this reset, we're talking about a 67% chance to kill over a 50% chance to kill.

 

[xKhaoTik]

If you have any more execution tips, please share. I'm not consistent with it yet.

Laos_boy - you're officially one of us lol

I'm just doing j1 as low as possible. I'm doing the 2n1 right before she lands. It's kinda like doing jump attacks into MB bounces.

 

[Chuckychuck]

This is so wrong it's in WTF territory. I don't even understand why you would ever say that.

In the 50/50 scenario, you have a 50% of your opponent escaping, which means 50% chance to hit and do your full damage.

In the 33/33/33 scenario, you have a 33% chance of your opponent escaping, which means a 67% chance to hit and do your full damage.

In the 10/x10 scenario, you have a 10% chance of your opponent escaping, which means a 90% chance to do your full damage.

When we're talking about the situations you would do this reset, we're talking about a 67% chance to kill over a 50% chance to kill.

From what I understood of your summary the escape methods are:

(a) If j1, backdash or block low
(b) if j2, block high or block low

What happens if I block high on on a) and what happens if I back dash on b)?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Cool tech but there is no reason to setup a 33/33/33 scenario when you have a 50/50.

completely and utterly wrong

 

[Laos_boy]

From what I understood of your summary the escape methods are:

(a) If j1, backdash or block low
(b) if j2, block high or block low

What happens if I block high on on a) and what happens if I back dash on b)?

If you block high on a you get hit and if you back dash on b you get hit

 

[Chuckychuck]

So where is the 33/33/33 if this is how the setup functions

Setup:
option 1 (50%) j1
option 2 (50%) j2

if option 1
escape option 1 (50%) back dash
escape option 2 (50%) block low

if option 2
escape option 1 (50%) block high
escape option 2 (50%) block low

You have 50% chance of being put in either setup and have only 50% chance to escape it.

Where's the 33/33/33?