General/Other KILLER FROST - General Discussion Thread

[Fogelstrom]

Do you guys ever use defensive MB b+3 over MB f+3? I personally always use f+3 since you always get a combo, but I'd like to hear what other Frosts are doing.

f+3 has 19F startup but is -5F on block. b+3 has 30F startup but is +5 on block.
With this in mind for defense I always use f+3 but while on the offense let's say I have people in the corner with a stage transition I can burn a bar on b+3 because if they block I'm still +5 and can mash whatever.

 

[Sami]

Sorry if this has been posted. I'm maining Raven but was playing around with KF yesterday and... how the hell do you input U3? Every god-damned time it came out as Jump 3 except for the couple of times when - yep, you guessed it - it I wanted to Jump 3 and U3 came out.

I used to play Mileena in MK so I'm used to U4 (overhead kick), but Frost's U3 this seems to have quite possibly the strictest timing on a move ever.

Either that or I'm just being very, very shit at this game.

 

[Fogelstrom]

I'm not having that much of an issue with u+3. I play on stick and tap up and 3 together as tight as possible but obviously I get j.3 sometimes but for the most part u+3 comes out. I found that waiting out the recovery of whatever you did before helps.

Also generally I really feel that the way this games priorities inputs as well as the input buffer system really caters to people using pad. You can literally feel the game designed to be played on pad and it's really really sad to see.

For example if you wanna do db3 slide and since I play on stick I do b, db, d (df) then "release" the stick like going to neutral and if I do that the game refuses to accept the input of the special move. You HAVE to be pressing and holding d or df when pressing 3 otherwise move doesn't come out. Imo, utter shit.

All in all... if you play on pad maybe you are shit haha but if you play on a stick don't beat yourself up since NRS and the designers obviously didn't adjust the game enough for it to be stick friendly.

 

[Spinky]

All in all... if you play on pad maybe you are shit haha

Encouraging, lol.

 

[Fogelstrom]

Encouraging, lol.

Obviously meant as a joke hence the "haha" since I can only state my perspective since I play on stick as stated in the opening

 

[AK cyusstrike]

Ok I played last night in offline casuals against my friend who has a very compotent Grundy I felt this mu in my favor hopes. The mu was since grundy has really good grapples I try to stay outta range of it but full screen I was either tossing daggers or trading back and forward with swap which I might get hit with radom ex swamp hand and put into 75% damage combos smh. Slide would get checked on block with d1s and jumping at him gets blown up with aa grabs also he has armor on his grabs out of our sets I won 2 times but the battle just felt awkward any tips on how to deal with Grundy and all his armor I mean running grab cancels shinigans. Hard to establish screen control grundy keeps coming also hurling tvs and such was a problem smh I need more expierience in the mu but any tips? I was able to land resets from here and there 90% of the time but after mb flash freeze f113 dagger between the f3/slide mix up he guessed right quite a few times.but the slide wasnt too much a issue for him.

 

[Rorshock]

I have a question:
How in the fucking world do people do wakeup attacks online? I see it happen when I'm against better players (this one Flash player wrecked me, and he was able to consistently get wakeup attacks), but I can't for the life of me get my wakeup slide out online.

It's frustrating because I wasn't at all able to make him respect my invincibility frames, because I had none. And then I got rushed down.

Exactly how strict is the wakeup window?

/endrant

 

[Jer]

I have a question:
How in the fucking world do people do wakeup attacks online? I see it happen when I'm against better players (this one Flash player wrecked me, and he was able to consistently get wakeup attacks), but I can't for the life of me get my wakeup slide out online.

It's frustrating because I wasn't at all able to make him respect my invincibility frames, because I had none. And then I got rushed down.

/endrant

It may just be because it's online. Wakeup timing isn't very lenient like in MK9 so it may take some time to adjust, do it as soon as you see your char just start standing up.

 

[Seapeople]

Does anyone know about how long it takes for the armor to startup on mb f3/mb b3? I want to keep people in check after a blocked slide but against fast attacks this seems almost impossible. Is my timing just off?

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Does anyone know about how long it takes for the armor to startup on mb f3/mb b3? I want to keep people in check after a blocked slide but against fast attacks this seems almost impossible. Is my timing just off?

8 frames before you can armor if im not mistaken

 

[Seapeople]

8 frames before you can armor if im not mistaken

That explains it, thanks. Is that the same with every character?

 

[xInfra Deadx]

That explains it, thanks. Is that the same with every character?

Every B3/F3 in the game, yes.

 

[Lord Knight]

Training Mode bro... turn on reversal Iceberg and go through the cast.

Same way to find frame gaps in blockstrings... turn on reversal Parry and start doing blockstrings lol

colt <3

uhm. ok.

if you dont want to make it a team effort, thats fine too.

 

[Goatlegs]

uhm. ok.

if you dont want to make it a team effort, thats fine too.

You never mentioned anything about it being a team effort nor did you imply you wanted help. No need to be snarky.

Anyways, I don't remember what daggers are on block off the top of my head but if you're doing them outside of jump distance and beyond they should be safe. Remember that the further the daggers travel the safer they will be on block because the increased distance gives more time for recovery frames. It might be punishable up close (again, I don't remember the frame data) but doing daggers so up close would be silly.

Punishing Iceberg also depends on the spacing except for a few exceptions. These would be Aquaman's ground spike, Joker's gun, probably Harley's gun, Deathstroke's pistol shots, etc. Basically any move that doesn't have a "real" travel time could punish it. If they block it up close they could punish it with quick advancing specials and maybe even some normals into full combos.

I know this isn't specific to any characters but these general rules apply to the whole cast. You can basically tell which characters can punish these moves just by looking at the other characters moves. If I'm wrong about anything somebody please correct me.

 

[Lord Knight]

I thought the post suggested it, that's my fault.

Anyway thanks, that makes sense.

 

[Primiera]

A little bit of knowledge from my compadre KF mainers, please. This is going to sound scrubby, but I can't figure this one out very well. How do you guys deal with turtles? No, I'm not talking about zoners, I'm talking about walking shields who hold down back more often than not. Those who can anti-air KF for free if you jump, and obviously daggers aren't likely to hit them, nor glacier. Against these types, I often purposefully put myself into the parry-or-not 50/50 after a blocked slide just because I don't know a better way to open them up. KF's mid-range game is non-existent, and her use of interactables is often limited to defense.

I've tried dashing up and throwing, and dashing up and MB f+3, but let's be real here, that's an online tactic. What can I use against solid players with her? What gets her offense flowing outside of 50/50?

 

[Konqrr]

A little bit of knowledge from my compadre KF mainers, please. This is going to sound scrubby, but I can't figure this one out very well. How do you guys deal with turtles? No, I'm not talking about zoners, I'm talking about walking shields who hold down back more often than not. Those who can anti-air KF for free if you jump, and obviously daggers aren't likely to hit them, nor glacier. Against these types, I often purposefully put myself into the parry-or-not 50/50 after a blocked slide just because I don't know a better way to open them up. KF's mid-range game is non-existent, and her use of interactables is often limited to defense.

I've tried dashing up and throwing, and dashing up and MB f+3, but let's be real here, that's an online tactic. What can I use against solid players with her? What gets her offense flowing outside of 50/50?

You don't have to do anything. Why are you so hard pressed to get an offense going? Be patient as you have 90 very long seconds. If they are a character that can't do anything about Iceberg, spam that for ~2% chip each time. Throw daggers over their head and build meter, build your trait. They will come in.

 

[Primiera]

I suppose you're right, though I wish she would have at least one advantageous way in (yes, a KF main is bitching about getting in) against people too content to try and turtle, even if it cost meter. Maybe I'm just too used to pure rushdown characters and I have to adapt, play more patient.

 

[Konqrr]

I suppose you're right, though I wish she would have at least one advantageous way in (yes, a KF main is bitching about getting in) against people too content to try and turtle, even if it cost meter. Maybe I'm just too used to pure rushdown characters and I have to adapt, play more patient.

I am the same way... at first it was hard not to just rush in with whatever I wanted to do (kitana f21 lol). I learned to be more patient.

Try getting in and establishing an offense against a really good Batman player... it's extremely difficult as he has options to deal with slide very effectively.

 

[Neclord]

Against turtlers it also helps to mix it up with daggers and Iceberg.
Daggers > Iceberg > Daggers > Iceberg > Iceberg for example.

This helped me sometimes very well against hard turtlers because if they see the daggers, they sometimes don't expect the Iceberg afterwards.
But I know this problem very well. When you learned some 40%+ meterless combos in practice mode, you want to do them online. This is often my problem.

But I realised that it isn't necessary to win every match with fancy combos. Outzoning the opponent can be enough.

 

[Goatlegs]

Against turtlers it also helps to mix it up with daggers and Iceberg.
Daggers > Iceberg > Daggers > Iceberg > Iceberg for example.

I think this is very situational based on who your opponent is. Aquaman is a great example of an opponent to NOT do that against because he has a great lame out game and will punish a blocked Iceberg with his own ground spike. Now you haven't gained any space and took some damage. Same thing with another KF except if your close enough she'll just slide you then gg.

Of course that's not to say it would never work. If you notice your opponent is trying to get a reversal on a blocked dagger every time, then hell yeah do your Iceberg right after, but don't get comfortable because they will reversal it eventually. Once people figure out how to deal with Iceberg I don't think KF players will just be throwing it out like some are now.

Now the topic of getting in. Like Konqrr said, I don't think KF should be forcing her way all the time. Just watch your opponent closely. If your fighting a pesky Deathstroke who won't lay off the gunfire, air dash in at an appropriate height. If an Aquaman puts his water shield up you'll at least get a forward dash. There's ways around laming as KF but they just require more patience.

 

[Primiera]

My original query was in relation to those who literally aren't attacking or moving, odd as it sounds, and are waiting to react or play the guessing games after slide. Thanks for the insight; I don't love the risk vs reward on her mid-range zoning but I do see its merits and I'll be more willing to throw a few extra Glaciers or trait charging to try and persuade opponents to leave themselves open to slide more.

Quick question off the tops of your heads; does anyone know on which characters the 3 section of f+113 whiffs if they're crouching? The only one I know for sure is Grundy. I could hit up training mode and test each character but if anyone knows which ones I'd rather just read it

 

[Lord Knight]

Get to midrange! Once you're at tip of slide range, she can punish most whiffed pokes/slide under projectiles and punish. It's also the spot where her d+2 works the best for anti air!

f+113 whiffs on Catwoman as well.

 

[Konqrr]

Quick question off the tops of your heads; does anyone know on which characters the 3 section of f+113 whiffs if they're crouching? The only one I know for sure is Grundy. I could hit up training mode and test each character but if anyone knows which ones I'd rather just read it

This angers me... why in the hell does Grundy have a low hitbox? You cannot use f113 on Grundy when he crouch blocks because he get's at least 50% one bar.

I need to find an alternative as 111~4 works, but the first hit is high and you can get hit with an uppercut to full combo for trying it. Maybe 22~4 because it's like +3 then I can check him with d1~Slide... but that damn walking corpse armor blows up frame gaps... gah! I hate this matchup.

 

[1man3letters]

This angers me... why in the hell does Grundy have a low hitbox? You cannot use f113 on Grundy when he crouch blocks because he get's at least 50% one bar.

I need to find an alternative as 111~4 works, but the first hit is high and you can get hit with an uppercut to full combo for trying it. Maybe 22~4 because it's like +3 then I can check him with d1~Slide... but that damn walking corpse armor blows up frame gaps... gah! I hate this matchup.

yea i started using 111~4 when seen you post it a few days ago,its really good.so much advantage