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Match-Up Discussion - Kenshi Kenshi Match Up Thread

Devils Britches

Pew Pew Pew
I thought those matchup numbers were bait to get knowledgeable players to contribute, lol. Pig should put some matchup numbers up so the community can catch up.
It's all a work in progress. May not have been the best matchup chart but it got us a template and a starting point. We can build off of it. I'll edit it as we go with dicussion. Just wanted some activity I this forum
 

Devils Britches

Pew Pew Pew
After re-reading that MU Chart, I think the numbers are in reverse. Like it says "Demo-6" he means it's 6-4 Demo favor. "Swarm Queen 7" as 7-3 D'Vorah. Etc.
Bingo! That's the only way I see this chart working. Give me time I'll go back and make it prettier and easier to follow.
 

coconutshrimp

Damn vro, hadda mess with yo auntie
He doesn't, because Balanced doesn't have any offense. SZ without the clone has better offense than Balanced.
No what I'm saying is that when Kenshi ignores clone and hits Sub he gets the most out of it damage wise, 26% meterless punish on a clone into Kenshi zoning is pretty good imo over the other 2 where you gotta spend a bar for worthwhile damage damage, unless I'm missing something.

Sub's slide also negates tele pressure since he goes right under Kenshi and also a pretty decent distance away. So you gotta rely on B1 stagger, or any other staggers in both for your offense.
Or Sub can take the last hit of 421 and when Kenshi teles sub recovers fast enough to get a free NJK. it's a read yes, but Sub does have an answer for both situations. However if he blocks 421 into tele and reversal slides, Kenshi gets a free BF2, if he backdashes after slide he can't whiff punish it with slide or anything really, he can't jump BF2 or he gets hit and sent fullscreen, if he blocks it he can't punish with slide as it's a max range BF2 so if he tries to slide to punish it, he will get punished instead. So you can still force Sub into a bad situation you just have to make a read before hand. So I guess you are right? lol sorry for the incredibly late response btw
 

Shaikhuzzaman

magicmeerkatman
In my opinion

GM 4
Unbreakable 3
Pumped up 6
Sorcerer 6
Dragons fire 7

Just a few I can think of

Also just for completeness 3 lists would be good but not necessary

Why do you feel Hollywood and brawler are 4.5? I am unsure about that matchup
 

Devils Britches

Pew Pew Pew
In my opinion

GM 4
Unbreakable 3
Pumped up 6
Sorcerer 6
Dragons fire 7

Just a few I can think of

Also just for completeness 3 lists would be good but not necessary

Why do you feel Hollywood and brawler are 4.5? I am unsure about that matchup
I really don't know about pumped up enough to say but the others are spot on.

Also for the cassie matchup I can't tell you what the creator was thinking. If I had to guess I would say it's not in her favor because of a slow projectile (apart from instant air cancels) and she just has trouble getting in. No armoured advancing special. I didn't count that upkick because it's free punish on the way down I think. May want to confirm that.
 
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coconutshrimp

Damn vro, hadda mess with yo auntie
In my opinion

GM 4
Unbreakable 3
Pumped up 6
Sorcerer 6
Dragons fire 7

Just a few I can think of

Also just for completeness 3 lists would be good but not necessary

Why do you feel Hollywood and brawler are 4.5? I am unsure about that matchup
Pumped up idk about
Sorcerer when he gets that armor spell out, well good luck, GGs that was a nice attempt at a match. Maybe I'm overselling it, but it feels like Kenshi, in any variation, can't really fight the armor spell that well without taking damage or eating combo. Do you know how he can fight it? Cause if I attempt to break it with B1, well I'm running right into him risking getting hit by a skull or rune ,so I gotta take my time with my approach okay that's fine, but when I get to him, 9 times out of 10 I end up eating a NJP so I really don't know what he can do against the armor spell.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Pumped up idk about
Sorcerer when he gets that armor spell out, well good luck, GGs that was a nice attempt at a match. Maybe I'm overselling it, but it feels like Kenshi, in any variation, can't really fight the armor spell that well without taking damage or eating combo. Do you know how he can fight it? Cause if I attempt to break it with B1, well I'm running right into him risking getting hit by a skull or rune ,so I gotta take my time with my approach okay that's fine, but when I get to him, 9 times out of 10 I end up eating a NJP so I really don't know what he can do against the armor spell.
Quan matchup outside summoner (which is acceptable) is pretty bad for Balanced.
I found myself more times in the close up game than in the distance in this matchup xD
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
I'm sorry but this MU chart is poop. Like total WTF. I've seen it before but just like Pig i think it's not even worth arguing.

For example Acidic Alien is probably one of the worst if not the worst possible MU for Balanced Kenshi you get destroyed anywhere on the screen and you got it at 4-6? Seriously?

In what universe Balanced Kenshi does win or go even with Cassie Cage? And so on...

No, really no point in arguing this MU list. I understand everybody is entitled to his/her opinion but this MU chart is utter bullshit. Seems like a bait, so i will stop here.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
I'm sorry but this MU chart is poop. Like total WTF. I've seen it before but just like Pig i think it's not even worth arguing.

For example Acidic Alien is probably one of the worst if not the worst possible MU for Balanced Kenshi you get destroyed anywhere on the screen and you got it at 4-6? Seriously?

In what universe Balanced Kenshi does win or go even with Cassie Cage? And so on...

No, really no point in arguing this MU list. I understand everybody is entitled to his/her opinion but this MU chart is utter bullshit. Seems like a bait, so i will stop here.
Yeah, there are many matchups that are much worse than listed. Acidic, Dragon's Fire, Cutthroat, Imposter, Nimble... etc, etc. There are many 5's that are at least 6's. Displacer is not a 5-5 at all, for example.

I agree with Bo being a 7-3 in Kenshi's favor, it's probably even worse, at least in Bartitsu, the one that I have faced the most.
 

shura30

Shura
In what universe Balanced Kenshi does win or go even with Cassie Cage? And so on...
you still playing the game?
not sure about who wins this matchup but for cassie to get in is a nightmare
iags are close to useless for obvious reasons and brawler has to complete the obstacle course to get thrown away again
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
you still playing the game?
not sure about who wins this matchup but for cassie to get in is a nightmare
iags are close to useless for obvious reasons and brawler has to complete the obstacle course to get thrown away again
I think we played before. I have decent experience in the matchup ( I also play Brawler, that helps), and although I don't feel specially uncomfortable vs her, imo the mu is in Cassie's favor.

It's hard to get used to Balanced, also there are very few to practice with. But when Cassie gets in, she dominates. Kenshi is the one taking risks here every time, for little reward. He pays his mistakes much harder than Cassie. She has a very good run and b1 is an extremely useful tool in the mu.
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
you still playing the game?
not sure about who wins this matchup but for cassie to get in is a nightmare
iags are close to useless for obvious reasons and brawler has to complete the obstacle course to get thrown away again
I do, althou Kenshi in MK X made me almost quit. Like i already said in some other thread this is my last MK where im a character loyalist.

As for Cassie vs Balanced Kenshi its just a matter of avoiding "zoning" once you're comfortable with that it's party time for Cassie no matter the variation, she's just so much better up close then Kenshi overall that it cannot be even or (that actually made me laugh in this thread) in Kenshi fav.

Same can be said for almost any good up close character like (another example) Kano. MK X is a game where 1/2 of the roster wants and have the tools to be in your face and Balanced struggle there the most.

And for the love of God if somebody puts Balanced Kenshi vs Alien as 4-6 (Acidic) or even better 4,5-5,5 (Tarkatan) then i seriously question his/her sanity.
 
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Devils Britches

Pew Pew Pew
Pumped up idk about
Sorcerer when he gets that armor spell out, well good luck, GGs that was a nice attempt at a match. Maybe I'm overselling it, but it feels like Kenshi, in any variation, can't really fight the armor spell that well without taking damage or eating combo. Do you know how he can fight it? Cause if I attempt to break it with B1, well I'm running right into him risking getting hit by a skull or rune ,so I gotta take my time with my approach okay that's fine, but when I get to him, 9 times out of 10 I end up eating a NJP so I really don't know what he can do against the armor spell.
Maybe try possessed and see if the Tele with a jip can do something. Really the only thing I can think of besides b1 and patience
 

Shaikhuzzaman

magicmeerkatman
Pumped up idk about
Sorcerer when he gets that armor spell out, well good luck, GGs that was a nice attempt at a match. Maybe I'm overselling it, but it feels like Kenshi, in any variation, can't really fight the armor spell that well without taking damage or eating combo. Do you know how he can fight it? Cause if I attempt to break it with B1, well I'm running right into him risking getting hit by a skull or rune ,so I gotta take my time with my approach okay that's fine, but when I get to him, 9 times out of 10 I end up eating a NJP so I really don't know what he can do against the armor spell.
If I ever face it I always use 111 up close in the armour but to be honest you should probably just pick another character
 
Kenshi has so many losing match ups it's not even funny. If you play people who don't know to neutral duck teleflurry then maybe the numbers change a bit but he has losing match ups all across the board against those same characters when played by people who know to neutral duck.
 

coconutshrimp

Damn vro, hadda mess with yo auntie
How do you guys handle Spectral and Mystic Error Macro? In every variation Kenshi punishes a raw BF2 from Mystic from anywhere on the screen with BF3 free so he can't throw that out willy nilly, but how do you guys deal with Ermac's ji3 into soul blast? That shit kills me everytime, is air soul blast plus on block cause I feel like I can move if I block that.

and then there's Spectral's corner pressure which you can armor, but if he reads your gonna armor then he can armor Tele cause when he's airborne EX Tele has armor, and then you're getting combod. So you need advancing armor? Okay let's try Possessed Tele, if he reads that your gonna do that he can move back and BF2 you. Now if I remember right, inbetween each hit of 1 2 3 4 or whatever normals he does in in the air, there is a gap in between each of those so what you can do is react to everything he does instead of reading him. Wait for him to hit you with air normals and interrupt them, wait for him to EX Tele and punish it, but then he can go straight into the ground stomp or the air blast and there goes that, at that point you have to guess.

In Balanced you have to limit tele flurry heavily cause he gets a free Tele punish, use Overhead slash a lot so he doesn't lift often, eventually he'll get impatient cause he can't lift into stomp like a madman and he'll tele you so be ready to punish. In Kenjutsu Tele toss is situational and only use it when you know you're gonna hit him or you can get away with it. Possessed is a bit weird cause Low demons don't have an aerial hit box, so idrk what you gotta do with Possessed.

In regards to Ermac's B124 string, do not attempt to poke out, you will get beat everytime so just don't do it. This string is practically a frame trap because he has an option for everything you can do. Wanna be safe and use Your EX BF2 armor? boi my EX Soul blast has that shit covered. You wanna backdash? String is neutral boi, bring dat ass back here where you going? Boi I will F4 dat ass if you backdash. and since he has a 6 frame d1 he's at advantage so you are not gonna poke out. You wanna cross me up? boi my D1 will hit just as you get in the air motherfucker, get back down here. You wanna jump back? Okay I gotchu, I'll just BF2 dat ass and we good. The only solution I have is get hit by the last hit of B124, but just don't get hit in the corner cause in the corner he converts. F21D2 is also 0 on block but you can armor backdash the last hit free, but he can stagger it so don't get too armor happy with that one either.

This is what I got. How do you guys handle the MU for both Spectral and Mystic? It feels really disadvantaged for Kenshi.
 
Kenshi has so many losing match ups it's not even funny. If you play people who don't know to neutral duck teleflurry then maybe the numbers change a bit but he has losing match ups all across the board against those same characters when played by people who know to neutral duck.
But a neutral duck would leave kenshi in the same spot and you also so wouldn't that neutral duck just be a way for Kenshi to try another move?
 
But a neutral duck would leave kenshi in the same spot and you also so wouldn't that neutral duck just be a way for Kenshi to try another move?
No because teleflurry has like a 40 frame recovery before he can do anything therefore the opponent neutral ducks and immediately runs at kenshi while he is still in recovery frames. From full screen your opponent only needs to neutral duck a teleflurry or two to get in your face.
 

Zabru

My blade is broken damn right better than yours!
And for the love of God if somebody puts Balanced Kenshi vs Alien as 4-6 (Acidic) or even better 4,5-5,5 (Tarkatan) then i seriously question his/her sanity.
Truer words have never been spoken.
 

Zabru

My blade is broken damn right better than yours!
But a neutral duck would leave kenshi in the same spot and you also so wouldn't that neutral duck just be a way for Kenshi to try another move?
This misconception was the only thing ever keeping balanced alive in the early days of this game's life.