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Kabal Questions and strategies

D

davidovitch

In Europe!
Actually what I described in the first post was Kabal avoiding Kenshi's Spirit Charge during nomad dash startup, but yeah tele-flurry will also whiff.
 
NogunYesknife

NogunYesknife

Kombatant
I was just playing around with my brother and my bro was spamming me w/ stryker's gun shot. I got hit by it once and thought to my self, "ok ill just send out a buzz saw to gain advantage in the space control". i input the commands but saw didn't come out. I kept trying then realized that kabals knee was raising as if i was getting stuffed. Can someone help confirm this?
 
P

Playpal

Warrior
Hitoshura said:
ok tht doesn't rlly make to much sense. wtf is 9? startup or whole move b/c fullscreen is 40 so im assuming its till it hits the opponent. If thts the case theres a chance tht start up is 0 frames and active frames can be __ and recovery is ___.

This is why we need LEGIT frame data for mk9 not this random # shit
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Buzzsaw is NOT 0 frames. I've tested if buzzsaw can interrupt strings (like subzero's 212) and it does not. 9 frames is how long it takes for the buzzsaw to appear I'm guessing.
 
Hitoshura

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Playpal said:
Buzzsaw is NOT 0 frames. I've tested if buzzsaw can interrupt strings (like subzero's 212) and it does not. 9 frames is how long it takes for the buzzsaw to appear I'm guessing.
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You cant go on start frames for a move solely based on a guess. Reos frame data for kabal doesn't make sense. How is saw 9 frames but full screen is 40? If there the same move then it being close - full screen shouldn't change startups frames.

Like I said this is why we need a legit frame data list for every character in the game. We can't go on by just guesses. It makes us as players in the community less knowledgeable and we appear as a joke to the other players in different fighting communities.
 
P

Playpal

Warrior
40 frames is how long it takes for the buzzsaw to reach the opponent at fullscreen. And no one's guessing. The frame data was made by somberness, who used a video recorder that can record at 60 frames. 9 frames is likely how long it takes for buzzsaw to appear. SZ's 212 can be interrupted with a 6 frame move, and I've tested interrupting it with buzzsaw extensively. Buzzsaw is definitely longer than 6 frames.
 
Hitoshura

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Playpal said:
40 frames is how long it takes for the buzzsaw to reach the opponent at fullscreen. And no one's guessing. The frame data was made by somberness, who used a video recorder that can record at 60 frames. 9 frames is likely how long it takes for buzzsaw to appear. SZ's 212 can be interrupted with a 6 frame move, and I've tested interrupting it with buzzsaw extensively. Buzzsaw is definitely longer than 6 frames.
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but ur GUESSING!!! your guessing its 9 frames due to a video recorder. Show me the move frame by frame and then you can say w/e # until then lack of evidence and guessing doesn't hold weight.

for all we know 9 frames is how long it takes to hit the opponent from close range. It could start up anywhere between 7-9 frames based on the sub-zero 212 theory
 
P

Playpal

Warrior
Somberness has already shown you Noob Saibot's D1 frame by frame. Do you still not believe his D1 is 8 frames?

And how important is technically precise frame data when we already have a reliable unit system? Using a video recorder has been reliable in telling us how fast and how punishable a certain move is. For example, JC's D1 is theoretically 6 frames. Noob Saibot's D1 is theoretically 8 frames. In reality, JC's d1 will beat out Noob Saibot's D1. Even if the frame data is not 100% correct, we can still use it as a reference for how fast and punishable moves are.

The home made frame data also counts the first active frame I think.
 
Hitoshura

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Playpal said:
Somberness has already shown you Noob Saibot's D1 frame by frame. Do you still not believe his D1 is 8 frames?
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Oh thts the same dude. Wasnt his tym account xyz or some shit like tht?

Playpal said:
And how important is technically precise frame data when we already have a reliable unit system?
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ummm....VERY IMPORTANT!!!!! If we have the a complete frame data list we can see what moves recovers quick enough in order to see what are proper pokes and what moves are safe to spam, what can beat out moves that are spammed etc. Advantage on block for frame traps, blockstrings or even possible block infinite's that we would overlook without proper frame data #'s. DAMAGE SCALING in order to see what the best possible combo(s) and damage options are for each character in the game. ITS HIGHLY IMPORTANT!

And seeing how NRS just gave up on mk temporally we need to do as much as we can as a community to keep this game alive.
 
P

Playpal

Warrior
Hitoshura said:
Oh thts the same dude. Wasnt his tym account xyz or some shit like tht?



ummm....VERY IMPORTANT!!!!! If we have the a complete frame data list we can see what moves recovers quick enough in order to see what are proper pokes and what moves are safe to spam, what can beat out moves that are spammed etc. Advantage on block for frame traps, blockstrings or even possible block infinite's that we would overlook without proper frame data #'s. DAMAGE SCALING in order to see what the best possible combo(s) and damage options are for each character in the game. ITS HIGHLY IMPORTANT!

And seeing how NRS just gave up on mk temporally we need to do as much as we can as a community to keep this game a live.
Click to expand...
XXZ changed his name to Somberness.

All the reasons you listed for precise frame data are already covered with representative frame data that we have. U4 is +9 on block, which can be followed up with a 12 frame D4 which is only beaten by armor moves. Her ball roll is -46 on block, meaning it's punishable with anything faster than that. Her D1 should definitely not be spammed because even though it's fast at 6 frames, it's -6 on hit. Yes I realize that U4 may not actually be +9 on block, D4 may not have a 12 frame start up and D1 may not be -6 on hit. That's not the point though. The point is that the home made frame data represents actual frame data. Let's say the home made frame data is off by 3 frames for every move, meaning every move is 3 frames faster than what the developers have it listed for. The home made frame data is still reliable because it tells use Mileena's D1 is not reliable and her U4 can be used as a frame trap.

What's damage scaling got to do with frame data?
 
Somberness

Somberness

Lights
Hitoshura said:
You cant go on start frames for a move solely based on a guess. Reos frame data for kabal doesn't make sense. How is saw 9 frames but full screen is 40? If there the same move then it being close - full screen shouldn't change startups frames.

Like I said this is why we need a legit frame data list for every character in the game. We can't go on by just guesses. It makes us as players in the community less knowledgeable and we appear as a joke to the other players in different fighting communities.
Click to expand...
It's not a guess, frame 9 is the first active frame and also the first frame it appears on the screen. The full screen data is just there to get an idea how fast it is. And nothing is 0 startup.
 
Hitoshura

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Playpal said:
XXZ changed his name to Somberness.

All the reasons you listed for precise frame data are already covered with representative frame data that we have. U4 is +9 on block, which can be followed up with a 12 frame D4 which is only beaten by armor moves. Her ball roll is -46 on block, meaning it's punishable with anything faster than that. Her D1 should definitely not be spammed because even though it's fast at 6 frames, it's -6 on hit. Yes I realize that U4 may not actually be +9 on block, D4 may not have a 12 frame start up and D1 may not be -6 on hit. That's not the point though. The point is that the home made frame data represents actual frame data. Let's say the home made frame data is off by 3 frames for every move, meaning every move is 3 frames faster than what the developers have it listed for. The home made frame data is still reliable because it tells use Mileena's D1 is not reliable and her U4 can be used as a frame trap.

What's damage scaling got to do with frame data?
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all I saw with that list of frame data was just numbers. Didnt see plus moves or what not. So If I over looked those then its my fault.

Also you'd be surprised. In Blazblue, Guilty Gear, and various other fighters they have something called P(1/2) for proation. P(1) is what the damage would be if you used the move in the beginning of the combos iirc and P(2) would be the damage of the move if you were to use it in mid combo. Shows scaling and for certain games it comes in handy although its not need in mk9 It would help though in finding characters true damage potential that normally we would over look.

Somberness said:
It's not a guess, frame 9 is the first active frame and also the first frame it appears on the screen. The full screen data is just there to get an idea how fast it is. And nothing is 0 startup.
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I was saying it was a guess bc playpal said I guess _____. Also thanks for informing me nothing starts u[p in 0 frames in this game. SO the whole kabal buzz-saw 0 frame myth is just a myth. Glad we have some closure info on tht.

***Also i wanna ask if anyone knows about the P(1/2) on frame data that if I'm wrong you can correct me on it b/c im just going on what I know about it so I could be wrong***
 
Dark_Rob

Dark_Rob

Champion
Prinzmetal said:
Believe it or not, Jade's glow is a fucking 1 frame start-up. It can be stuffed...
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Wow! Jade got hosed on that deal. Kitana gets razor sharp fans, Mileena gets sais and what does Jade get? Her stripper pole gets taken down for her weapon and Crocodile Dundee's boomerang. And we cant even get this girl a 0 frame glow? Id go on strike if I was her.
 
P

Playpal

Warrior
Hitoshura said:
all I saw with that list of frame data was just numbers. Didnt see plus moves or what not. So If I over looked those then its my fault.

Also you'd be surprised. In Blazblue, Guilty Gear, and various other fighters they have something called P(1/2) for proation. P(1) is what the damage would be if you used the move in the beginning of the combos iirc and P(2) would be the damage of the move if you were to use it in mid combo. Shows scaling and for certain games it comes in handy although its not need in mk9 It would help though in finding characters true damage potential that normally we would over look.
Click to expand...
You didn't see any plus moves? http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?11959-Mileena-Frame-Data

There are 3 categories, start up frames, advantage on block and advantage on hit. Mileena's one of the few characters that somberness did recovery frame data on.

I still have no clue with what damage scaling has to do with this frame data debate.
 
REO

REO

Undead
Dark_Rob said:
Wow! Jade got hosed on that deal. Kitana gets razor sharp fans, Mileena gets sais and what does Jade get? Her stripper pole gets taken down for her weapon and Crocodile Dundee's boomerang. And we cant even get this girl a 0 frame glow? Id go on strike if I was her.
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Jade is a really good character. She's just unexplored and no one has really tapped into her full potential, yet. Buffing her for no reason might cause some severe consequences in the future if someone really good decides to pick her up and show us we were wrong.
 
Faded Dreams V

Faded Dreams V

Retired June 2012. Unretired June 2013.
REO said:
Jade is a really good character. She's just unexplored and no one has really tapped into her full potential, yet. Buffing her for no reason might cause some severe consequences in the future if someone really good decides to pick her up and show us we were wrong.
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This man is haunted by Jax. Don't make him fear Jade now too, guys.

Just...

...let her be.
 
Hitoshura

Hitoshura

Head Cage
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