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Juicy IV: Which reportedly 3-7 or worse match ups are a bill?

Slips

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
General M2Dave said:
Fair enough.

Explain how Deathstroke only loses the match 6:4 when...

- Deathstroke's zoning is irrelevant.
- the footsies are even, but the damage output is severely in Flash's favor.
- Flash can punish sword spin which very few characters can.
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Raven also suffers from not being able to zone Flash, yet we saw first-hand Ducky beating the best Flash player with even less footsie tools than DS has. Even if Raven vs. Flash really is a 3-7 and Ducky is overcoming it, with the tools DS has at footsie range are better than Raven's therefore automatically suggesting DS vs. Flash is a 4-6 at worst.
 
KingHippo

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
General M2Dave said:
Fair enough.

Explain how Deathstroke only loses the match 6:4 when...

- Deathstroke's zoning is irrelevant.
- the footsies are even, but the damage output is severely in Flash's favor.
- Flash can punish sword spin which very few characters can.



100% true. To this day, Zod requires more effort to beat Aquaman and Sinestro than vice versa.

Zod loses to Martian Manhunter 7:3, though. Martian Manhunter is Zod's only bad match up.
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Actually, no he can't. That's actually an embarassing lack of game knowledge. -6 moves cannot be punished by any i6 moves in the game, as per the rules. There's one frame of impact on moves, and that needs to be taken into account when considering punishing options. My God, how could you be so foolish this late in the game? Apologize.
 
HoneyBee

HoneyBee

Flash God Lord
General M2Dave said:
Fair enough.

Explain how Deathstroke only loses the match 6:4 when...

- Deathstroke's zoning is irrelevant.
- the footsies are even, but the damage output is severely in Flash's favor.
- Flash can punish sword spin which very few characters can.
Click to expand...
1) That's not true. He can still zone fullscreen and Flash still has to respect the fact that he can use gunshots at any moment, often letting DS control space and use J3 into throw, OH, low, F3, F23, etc.
2) DS F3 is an incredibly good tool. He can D2 Flash with ease while Flash can't D2 DS (except at certain ranges). My B2 is my only way to get in on a good DS and it's easier said than done. DS might win the footsie game. I often feel I have to respect him more than he has to respect me.
3) Flash can only punish sword spin when I'm right next to DS and I input Flying Uppercut immediately. That means that if you decide to MB it, I get hit. If I'm slightly off with my punish or not right next to DS, he can block my FU and full combo punish.

I think the only real advantage Flash has in the MU is his damage output. Even Flash's setups with ambiguous crossups and such don't really work because DS has an option select WU.
 
IMakeItL00kC00L

IMakeItL00kC00L

Do not provoke a god
General M2Dave said:
If a Martian Manhunter player could block Sinestro's vortex as well as Ducky and White Boy did at KIT, I could see Sinestro losing 7:3. But almost all Martian Manhunter players have no defense whatsoever, so the match up will never be known as 7:3.
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That's more of a "player" thing than a "character" thing
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
HoneyBee said:
3) Flash can only punish sword spin when I'm right next to DS and I input Flying Uppercut immediately. That means that if you decide to MB it, I get hit. If I'm slightly off with my punish or not right next to DS, he can block my FU and full combo punish.
Click to expand...
The sword spin punish is only relevant in wake up situations because you cannot punish d+1 xx sword spin on block. By the way, you may want to educate King Hippo on this matter since a washed up Deathstroke player apparently knows more about Deathstroke than he does.

Wake up MB sword spin is punishable by d+1,2 xx lightning kick + trait + 50% combo. The risk reward ratio is laughably in Flash's favor. Just like almost all aspects of the match up are.

Also, "Deathstroke can zone full screen"... are you kidding me? Deathstroke is almost never full screen in this match. The Flash has the easiest and most damaging punish for any blocked gunshot. I do not even have to discuss Flash's forward dash. Deathstroke's "zoning" (or whatever is left of it post-patch) is nonexistent in this match.
 
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KingHippo

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
General M2Dave said:
The sword spin punish is only relevant in wake up situations because you cannot punish d+1 xx sword spin on block. By the way, you may want to educate King Hippo on this matter since a washed up Deathstroke player apparently knows more about Deathstroke than he does.

Wake up MB sword spin is punishable by d+1,2 xx lightning kick + trait + 50% combo. The risk reward ratio is laughably in Flash's favor. Just like almost all aspects of the match up.
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I can't think of any scenario where I'd bother going for spin on wakeup. Go flip or go home. I knew about the close range punish, but it's not worth talking about in the match, being as range dependent as it is.
 
Big Pampering

Big Pampering

Master
General M2Dave said:
The sword spin punish is only relevant in wake up situations because you cannot punish d+1 xx sword spin on block. By the way, you may want to educate King Hippo on this matter since a washed up Deathstroke player apparently knows more about Deathstroke than he does.

Wake up MB sword spin is punishable by d+1,2 xx lightning kick + trait + 50% combo. The risk reward ratio is laughably in Flash's favor. Just like almost all aspects of the match up are.

Also, "Deathstroke can zone full screen"... are you kidding me? Deathstroke is almost never full screen in this match. The Flash has the easiest and most damaging punish for any blocked gunshot. I do not even have to discuss Flash's forward dash. Deathstroke's "zoning" (or whatever is left of it post-patch) is nonexistent in this match.
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Both flash players and deathstroke players have spoken. Who are you again? You are dave!!! stick to zod balls...
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
General M2Dave said:
Fair enough.

Explain how Deathstroke only loses the match 6:4 when...

- Deathstroke's zoning is irrelevant.
- the footsies are even, but the damage output is severely in Flash's favor.
- Flash can punish sword spin which very few characters can.



100% true. To this day, Zod requires more effort to beat Aquaman and Sinestro than vice versa.

Zod loses to Martian Manhunter 7:3, though. Martian Manhunter is Zod's only bad match up.
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Bruh
6 frame moves don't punish -6 moves on block
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
STB Shujinkydink said:
Green arrow and mmh. Very few are playing it right
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I tried and tried with this match up. What makes it not so bad?

Also I think bane vs arrow isn't that bad imo but I can be wrong due to not having a ton of experience. I think arrow has a good shot if he runs with savage blast/fire arrows during venom and then rushes with ice arrow during debuff. One mistake that puts you in the corner pretty much tosses all hope out the window though.
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
KungLao's Shoes said:
Both flash players and deathstroke players have spoken. Who are you again? You are dave!!! stick to zod balls...
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Ignorant fools are talking about Deathstroke's "zoning" in the Flash match like it is version 1.01. Deathstroke's zoning has been irrelevant for two years now.

Pig Of The Hut said:
Bruh
6 frame moves don't punish -6 moves on block
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Fool, I thought you were the "tech guy". Do your research.
 
Eric The Scruffy

Eric The Scruffy

Warrior
Gonna just throw this out there as a hypothetical cause I wanna participate, feel free to blow me up as the fraud I am :) :

I think that Joker/Green Arrow is probably only 4:6. I haven't lost to a joker player in a long long time in this matchup...but I think most don't play it right. What makes this such a frustrating matchup for Joker is that its one of the few matchups where Arrows zoning becomes super viable and incredibly effective. Here's the thing though: Green Arrows zoning is mainly effective on people who are impatient because of the practically nonexistant chip damage it has. He gets 3 shots of an arrow that does .8% on block before he has to take a risk and reload. As boring, as ASS, and as against the core mechanics of the game it might seem: I think the secret to this matchup lies in patiently inching your way forward and not dashing constantly.
Again, it *is* frustrating, but if you're patient enough i'll either have to come in at you or find myself in the corner...and one knockdown from Joker in the corner = Death.

STB Shujinkydink said:
Green arrow and mmh. Very few are playing it right
Click to expand...
I know I'm not....really can't wait to see a video of this.
 
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