Video/Tutorial Joker's Block Infinite Breakdown

[StevoSuprem0]

@Fromundaman you also have to look at it like another guessing game. If they know how to get out, you can exploit that as well when they're standing in teeth

 

[Fromundaman]

We'll all of that stuff is on hit, not block. This is on block, and you can convert from this into the other stuff (big damage, SHKD, etc) when you open you're opponent up. So yeah, it probably is worth it, especially considering there are some relatively reasonable ways to get people into this when you make the respect your options. I'm making something tonight/tomorrow to go over punish options once you hit.

Well that's true, but for example, in the OTG setup given, they could wakeup out since there's no OTG B1 and beat the entire thing. If they don't, then you already "guessed right" and could use B2/F3/BF3 to cause an unblockable with variable timings to make either the high or low hit first and leaves you at massive frame advantage if they do guess right... or you could go for a setup that causes ~2% on block and can get immediately pushblocked (And probably will as people will recognize the setup with this thread getting more and more views), ending all pressure right there.

I'm definitely going to mess with it more before writing it off, but looking at it on paper it doesn't seem as useful to me as any other corner option we have.


EDIT: Isn't pushblocking the teeth the best way to get out?
Nevermind.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Well that's true, but for example, in the OTG setup given, they could wakeup out since there's no OTG B1 and beat the entire thing. If they don't, then you already "guessed right" and could use B2/F3/BF3 to cause an unblockable with variable timings to make either the high or low hit first and leaves you at massive frame advantage if they do guess right... or you could go for a setup that causes ~2% on block and can get immediately pushblocked (And probably will as people will recognize the setup with this thread getting more and more views), ending all pressure right there.

I'm definitely going to mess with it more before writing it off, but looking at it on paper it doesn't seem as useful to me as any other corner option we have.

EDIT: Isn't pushblocking the teeth the best way to get out?
Nevermind.

That's the same thing I said about the b2 50/50, but it doesn't make it any less useful as a tech option. While I don't disagree with you logic and that's certainly a caveat of this stuff, it's true of alot of our tech. There may be other ways into this that we're not aware of yet that make this a better options in those situations, so it never hurts to explore all the options.
In this case, you aren't relying on a different looking attack (like b2/f3/etc), but rather the same looking setup as teeth->b1, so I think that's worth noting and makes it a bit harder to react to/see coming. If people think you're going for it and try to punish, they still run the risk of you reading that and just blocking with them on the teeth or pushblocking into 0% but at SHKD or crowbar setup, then rinse and repeat.

 

[Fromundaman]

That's the same thing I said about the b2 50/50, but it doesn't make it any less useful as a tech option. While I don't disagree with you logic and that's certainly a caveat of this stuff, it's true of alot of our tech. There may be other ways into this that we're not aware of yet that make this a better options in those situations, so it never hurts to explore all the options.
In this case, you aren't relying on a different looking attack (like b2/f3/etc), but rather the same looking setup as teeth->b1, so I think that's worth noting and makes it a bit harder to react to/see coming. If people think you're going for it and try to punish, they still run the risk of you reading that and just blocking with them on the teeth or pushblocking into 0% but at SHKD or crowbar setup, then rinse and repeat.

Hmmm... I see your point.

To the lab I go!

 

[xxsledgrenxx]

You can't jump 1 and you can't MB through it unless it's faster than 18-19 frames, which not too many are. You can't teleport through it. If you take the combo, you're gonna die. If you clash, I made you clash, so now that's out of the way. If you pushblock, you have to do it precisely at the right hit, and even then you're still in the corner and one bar poorer. No one is crying, but this is more powerful than you're realizing man given all the other things Joker can do in the corner.

this is

You can't jump 1 and you can't MB through it unless it's faster than 18-19 frames, which not too many are. You can't teleport through it. If you take the combo, you're gonna die. If you clash, I made you clash, so now that's out of the way. If you pushblock, you have to do it precisely at the right hit, and even then you're still in the corner and one bar poorer. No one is crying, but this is more powerful than you're realizing man given all the other things Joker can do in the corner.

dude you should really audition for

 

[Mosp]

Hotfix coming in 3....2.....1....

Cheryl Cole? Take all my upvotes!

 

[SonicFox5000]

I think it's a little stupid for US to apologize when he made a thread basically calling all Joker players frauds and downplayers. I didn't think there was an infinite and he proved me wrong, so sure, @SonicFox5000 you proved me wrong and I'll be holding that (by the way, please provide some feedback on whether anything I'm saying here is flawed; I'd like to know if got anything wrong... lol). But what we really took issue with in that thread was being insulted and told we didn't know shit and that Joker is top 10 when everything else that was being shared was old news tech and we've been pouring work into making this character good and saying nothing but good things about him. Joker's failings are navigating the neutral game against some characters that control it far better than he does, so that's what I wanna see more work with to demonstrate this character being "top 10". Apologies are not necessary either way; Sonic was mostly trolling and we were mostly annoyed by it, which is the consequence of trolling. Nothing more.

Joker players misread me. It was to joker downplayers, not joker players.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Joker players misread me. It was to joker downplayers, not joker players.

Lol apologies for having trouble discerning trolling from reality when I read "I don't want to hear anything about Joker players downplaying him."
Haha anyway, does all this look about right? I'm in the process of putting a video together for how to punish people trying to escape it in incorrect ways. Some nasty stuff.

 

[The PantyChrist]

People say joker isn't viable, people find cyrax like tech (nearly) joker players dont like it.

More than likely if a hotfix is in order they are just going to lower the cancel advantage of 21.. thus nerfing the joker. I say keep it in the game. It's not as big as batgirl bola glitch, or sinestro pushblocks...

Except. On chip this does less than a d1 on hit. Which is 2% cyrax bombs were unblockable and I don't think anyone on this site can FATHOM CYRAX DOING LESS THAN 2%

 

[The PantyChrist]

ALSO CYRAX WOULD LAUGH AT THE IDEA OF A BLOCK INFINITE

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Except. On chip this does less than a d1 on hit. Which is 2% cyrax bombs were unblockable and I don't think anyone on this site can FATHOM CYRAX DOING LESS THAN 2%

You misunderstood what i meant about that. Now correct me if im wrong, but cyrax has the possibility of indefinitely setting you up, with no means to escape. Therefore once the set up commences, you are caught in it regardless of the situation. Obviously if u have a breaker available, you can use it, but once thats gone what do you have?

Now what we have here is a similar situation. Once the joker begins this "infinite", it becomes impossible to escape (there are exceptions, covered in the video), you are INDEFINITELY caught in the setup, regardless of the situation. You understand where im coming from now???

 

[The PantyChrist]

Yes but damage dealt warranted one to be patched and the others pales in comparison. Also spending two bars to sometimes escape one vs a well times pushblock is all it takes of your character doesn't have the speed/ armor option. I really don't think this needs to be hotfixed there's better things for NRs to do with their time.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Threw together some stuff for punishing escape attempts. Pretty disgusting damage and setup potential out of this stuff. Check it out. Added to OP.

@Qwark28 @Gilbagz @Notez4 @Fromundaman @Dr Jackal @OnlineRon91 @EMP Dark @The_PantyChrist @ThaShiveGeek @Amplified$hotz @SonicFox5000 @FCP/EMP SCAR @rehti @DarthArma

 

[Dr Jackal]

Very interesting Stev', I was working on it yesterday, I am trying this on all the wake up. Dash foward (even if nobody will do that ) can escape this if we have a bad reading (if we think that the opponent will back dash and we try to jump).

Really interesting stuff to include in our game.

 

[SonicFox5000]

Lol apologies for having trouble discerning trolling from reality when I read "I don't want to hear anything about Joker players downplaying him."
Haha anyway, does all this look about right? I'm in the process of putting a video together for how to punish people trying to escape it in incorrect ways. Some nasty stuff.

Learn the 52% from people trying to counterpoke lol

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Learn the 52% from people trying to counterpoke lol

What are the inputs? I have a 58% in the video above that I tagged you in.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Another great way to get into this setup is a fast restand in the corner.
If you open someone up with a normal corner combo, do something like this:
j2 32 xx MB RLG, d2 xx teeth, j2 teeth, 32(1 hit) xx teeth, 3 flower, d2 xx teeth -> 21(1hit) teeth -> 21(1hit) teeth -> etc.
The d2 stands them up really fast so it's difficult for them to wakeup, and they are standing right into teeth. They can techroll if they see it coming and mash it out, but since you're transitioning into 21 quickly, there is a good chance of stuffing their wakeup attempts if they do, which you can convert off of if you react fast enough. If they techroll and don't wakeup, they're in the infinite.

 

[KonDcnT]

This is some great stuff @StevoSuprem0 and everyone that has contributed. NRS taketh push block set ups, Joker community and @SonicFox5000 bringeth nastier shit.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

This is some great stuff @StevoSuprem0 and everyone that has contributed. NRS taketh push block set ups, Joker community and @SonicFox5000 bringeth nastier shit.

Thanks! But... ehhh... I'd much rather have the pushblock tech than this lol.

 

[KonDcnT]

Me too, but you know as well as I do, being a joker main has always been "working with what we have".

 

[trustinme]

very entertaining vid @StevoSuprem0 I hope u continue to throw teeth and enjoy yourself.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

very entertaining vid @StevoSuprem0 I hope u continue to throw teeth and enjoy yourself.

Always

 

[Vocket]

@StevoSuprem0 this is an excellent video, you should be the one making the videos for Joker instead of @Qwark28's handmade wooden camera recording.
Nah but really, you make it very in-depth and easy to understand even for people who have never touched Joker (or his boner). Only thing missing would be the fact that most supers can avoid the block infinite but that is quite obvious anyway.

The best thing about the block infinite is the amount of mixups that you can do to catch people trying to escape or to open up people who just stay crouch blocking. I will start with what I think is the best mixup option

113 after 21 teeth:
What this does is create an unblockable situation where the 3 in the 113 is an overhead and happens very close to the teeth explosion. Do the 113 as fast as possible and it is an overhead low, delay it a bit and it becomes low overhead. The problem with this is that they can duck the first 1 and punish with a d2 or a jab. The advantage that this has over 21 is that 1 is faster by a few frames, enough so that armor f3 and b3 is not possible. Also, rather than end in 113 one can do 11~teeth and it leads back into the block infinite. If the 113 lands the opponent bounces low to the ground for a low damage combo

b13 after 21 teeth:
This creates another unblockable situation that is overhead low. The "unblockable", however is quite easy to block and it is completely unsafe on block. The advantage that it has is that it is faster than 2 so one can't armor through it and it begins with a low, which we will see can be used in a 50/50 mixup. If the string lands the opponent is sent into the air for full combo.

Instant j2 after 21 teeth:
This is purely used to create a 50/50 mixup. Most characters can jab out and the opponent can backdash it, leaving Joker at minus. It still catches jumpers and of course people who just crouch and block. Do this or b13 and you a difficult to block 50/50. If they get hit by the jump 2 the teeth will hit for full combo.

As for the other strings, I found them to either be too slow, or have the overhead part far from teeth explosion.
On a final note, I want to say that it is not necessary to start with 21 teeth. Depending on when the teeth explode, you can do 2~teeth, 11~teeth, f2~teeth, obviously with different timing from 21. This is most useful after a hard knockdown, where you can do several anti-wakeup strings and go into the block infinite.

Thanks you for the video, I had fun playing around with Joker and might main him now.

 

[Fromundaman]

113 after 21 teeth:
What this does is create an unblockable situation where the 3 in the 113 is an overhead and happens very close to the teeth explosion. Do the 113 as fast as possible and it is an overhead low, delay it a bit and it becomes low overhead. The problem with this is that they can duck the first 1 and punish with a d2 or a jab. The advantage that this has over 21 is that 1 is faster by a few frames, enough so that armor f3 and b3 is not possible. Also, rather than end in 113 one can do 11~teeth and it leads back into the block infinite. If the 113 lands the opponent bounces low to the ground for a low damage combo

Good stuff!

Quick question on the part I quoted: Were you able to make 113 hit the opponent out of jumps/reversals and with the same timing make it overhead/low on block? When I was messing with 113 the only way I found to stop them from getting out also made 113 and teeth hit on the same frame, making them both mids.

 

[Vocket]

Good stuff!

Quick question on the part I quoted: Were you able to make 113 hit the opponent out of jumps/reversals and with the same timing make it overhead/low on block? When I was messing with 113 the only way I found to stop them from getting out also made 113 and teeth hit on the same frame, making them both mids.

Yeah the overhead sometimes hits at the exact frame as the teeth so you can crouch block the whole thing for some reason. You just have to delay 113 a teeny bit. I think it has to hit low overhead for it to combo. (not sure, still really hard to block the low overhead) The 113 definitely hits jumps and reversals, delaying it wont change that as 1 is quite fast already.

EDIT: I managed to get the 113 to hit low overhead and still combo, even if they just crouch block. It beat out lex's charge, so they cannot escape.

EDIT: Even better, I managed to get 113 to hit overhead then low and still combo. It still beats lex's charge, so they cannot escape this option either. Making it hit overhead low and not mid is quite hard, you have to be frame perfect and hit 1 as early as possible. This is great news as that means you can pick between overhead low and vice versa and they both look exactly the same.