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Video/Tutorial Joker's Block Infinite Breakdown

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
@StevoSuprem0 this is an excellent video, you should be the one making the videos for Joker instead of @Qwark28's handmade wooden camera recording.
Nah but really, you make it very in-depth and easy to understand even for people who have never touched Joker (or his boner). Only thing missing would be the fact that most supers can avoid the block infinite but that is quite obvious anyway.

The best thing about the block infinite is the amount of mixups that you can do to catch people trying to escape or to open up people who just stay crouch blocking. I will start with what I think is the best mixup option

113 after 21 teeth:
What this does is create an unblockable situation where the 3 in the 113 is an overhead and happens very close to the teeth explosion. Do the 113 as fast as possible and it is an overhead low, delay it a bit and it becomes low overhead. The problem with this is that they can duck the first 1 and punish with a d2 or a jab. The advantage that this has over 21 is that 1 is faster by a few frames, enough so that armor f3 and b3 is not possible. Also, rather than end in 113 one can do 11~teeth and it leads back into the block infinite. If the 113 lands the opponent bounces low to the ground for a low damage combo

b13 after 21 teeth:
This creates another unblockable situation that is overhead low. The "unblockable", however is quite easy to block and it is completely unsafe on block. The advantage that it has is that it is faster than 2 so one can't armor through it and it begins with a low, which we will see can be used in a 50/50 mixup. If the string lands the opponent is sent into the air for full combo.

Instant j2 after 21 teeth:
This is purely used to create a 50/50 mixup. Most characters can jab out and the opponent can backdash it, leaving Joker at minus. It still catches jumpers and of course people who just crouch and block. Do this or b13 and you a difficult to block 50/50. If they get hit by the jump 2 the teeth will hit for full combo.

As for the other strings, I found them to either be too slow, or have the overhead part far from teeth explosion.
On a final note, I want to say that it is not necessary to start with 21 teeth. Depending on when the teeth explode, you can do 2~teeth, 11~teeth, f2~teeth, obviously with different timing from 21. This is most useful after a hard knockdown, where you can do several anti-wakeup strings and go into the block infinite.

Thanks you for the video, I had fun playing around with Joker and might main him now.
b13 and instant j2 definitely has some good utility here, but 113 and doing the block infinite with 11 teeth is a bit worse because they can duck it, poke out on reaction pretty easily, and escape by jumping out before the teeth pop. Still do-able though if they aren't just holding crouch block, but that's what people default to against Joker. Good stuff though :)
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Good stuff!

Quick question on the part I quoted: Were you able to make 113 hit the opponent out of jumps/reversals and with the same timing make it overhead/low on block? When I was messing with 113 the only way I found to stop them from getting out also made 113 and teeth hit on the same frame, making them both mids.
I dunno if it's just a training thing or not, but when I set a dummy to duck and stance block and then hit them with the simultaneous overhead/low from teeth and MB F3 at the exact same frame, they get the block as per the gamecode preventing unblockables, but they still eat the full damage from the overhead. Have you guys noticed this? @Qwark28 @Gilbagz @Notez4
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I dunno if it's just a training thing or not, but when I set a dummy to duck and stance block and then hit them with the simultaneous overhead/low from teeth and MB F3 at the exact same frame, they get the block as per the gamecode preventing unblockables, but they still eat the full damage from the overhead. Have you guys noticed this? @Qwark28 @Gilbagz @Notez4
Yes, it's normal.
 

Gilbagz

Joker here~
Yeah stevo thats normal lol

Also guys i find these combos to be rather inconsistent
Because if you use the infinite timing the 2nd 2,1 doesnt cancel into teeth properly, i.e the teeth dont come out because there are already teeth on the ground (the 2,1 cancels earlier because it hit)

The combos look swag as hell but i could only get them if i delayed the 2nd 2,1 slightly so the teeth could come out
But then its no longer an infinite
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Yeah stevo thats normal lol

Also guys i find these combos to be rather inconsistent
Because if you use the infinite timing the 2nd 2,1 doesnt cancel into teeth properly, i.e the teeth dont come out because there are already teeth on the ground (the 2,1 cancels earlier because it hit)

The combos look swag as hell but i could only get them if i delayed the 2nd 2,1 slightly so the teeth could come out
But then its no longer an infinite
Weird, I did these a ton last night and literally never had that happen once...
It was working against Lex when I was doing that (which is the infinite decider basically), but it was a bit more annoying to stuff the CC consistently and I was tired, so I switched to batman to give myself more of a window so that I could just work on the timing of the combos and get things recorded lol.
I'll try to look into this tonight real quick and see if maybe my timing was off.
 

Gilbagz

Joker here~
Weird, I did these a ton last night and literally never had that happen once...
It was working against Lex when I was doing that (which is the infinite decider basically), but it was a bit more annoying to stuff the CC consistently and I was tired, so I switched to batman to give myself more of a window so that I could just work on the timing of the combos and get things recorded lol.
I'll try to look into this tonight real quick and see if maybe my timing was off.
Yeah it does come out for lex
But not consistently

I think it needs to be delayed like a frame so the teeth come out
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Yeah it does come out for lex
But not consistently

I think it needs to be delayed like a frame so the teeth come out
So it might just be a just frame where if we're getting the 2 to hit 5 frames after the teeth pop, it's still a true block infinite AND the 21 can still be cancelled on hit into teeth, but if it lands a frame or two earlier (assuming that's possible), then the infinite timing is in tact but it's too fast and the teeth don't come out.
Why does Joker have to be so fucking complicate/hard to play! :mad:
 

Gilbagz

Joker here~
So it might just be a just frame where if we're getting the 2 to hit 5 frames after the teeth pop, it's still a true block infinite AND the 21 can still be cancelled on hit into teeth, but if it lands a frame or two earlier (assuming that's possible), then the infinite timing is in tact but it's too fast and the teeth don't come out.
Why does Joker have to be so fucking complicate/hard to play! :mad:
Lol yeah i think joker takes the title for execution heavy character in this game
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Can we name this Block Infinite and all its subsequent tech "The Killing Joke"? It just seems appropriate considering in the end Joker had the last laugh even though he was technically the weakest we'd seen.
 
Nice video. It's useful but the main thing IMO joker needs is mid screen improvement. I don't know the type of character he was meant to be but it feels like we have to do everything and he has no single thing to rely on. I mean like Mmm ok .you have to know how to play every playstyle with him in every matchup. Unless it's aqua man/
 
I'm just discussing it, not saying it should or shouldn't be hotfixed. That's up to NRS. I'm basically saying it doesn't need to be removed, but could be if they so chose to. This character has lost less significant tech to hotfixes in the past couple of weeks...
Also, I feel like you might not know that Joker can GUARANTEED kill you if he opens you up in the corner with about 2 bars of meter (yes, he can do over 100% with unblockable resets, NOT 50/50s) as long as you don't have clash. There is so much tech that this character has, as soon as someone clicks with all of it and has an excellent grasp of his neutral game, he is going to be TERRIFYING to fight against, AND he'll have a block infinite.
TL;DR- We don't know shit.
dude can u thoroughly explain the neutral game concept to me, who's good at it ,what joker lacks, why is aqua man so good At it?
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
dude can u thoroughly explain the neutral game concept to me, who's good at it ,what joker lacks, why is aqua man so good At it?
I'm putting together a guide video, so just wait on that for now. If that doesn't answer all your questions, the ensuing discussions in the thread I make for it definitely will ;)